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Old 05-05-2013   #341
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

Aj Jenkins was drafted in the first round last year.

Kendall wright was taken earlier than Hopkins was. Michael Floyd gonna take the number one spot from fitz? Who the heck is John Baldwin? Is Jeremy maclin the #1 over design Jackson who was taken in the 2nd...

Guess the saints deeply regret getting meachem.

Looking back at the drafts over the years, if you get a solid starter at the end of the first round you did good.

This thought that you have to draft a #1 there is ridiculous.

But that said, there's nothing saying Hopkins can't grow into a 1 after Andre is retired.
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Old 05-05-2013   #342
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.
Ok, well then roddy white is the number 2.
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Old 05-05-2013   #343
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Reggie Wayne was the number 2 option the entire time Harrison was still playing. Well except for maybe his last year. And I hate to break it to you but Roddy White is still the number 1 option in Atlanta.
Like I said, I can't comment on the Wayne's situation; I'm just not familiar with the Colts back then.

With the Falcons, they have had a solid defense for a while.
It looks like they were in win-mode at the time, so they spent a boat load to get Jones.
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?

If you don't mind taking a number two receiver with a first round pick, it's fine with me. It's just not my preference.

I like to have a guy with good potential to become a number one or as good as a number one on other teams with my first round pick.
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Old 05-05-2013   #344
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Ok, well then roddy white is the number 2.
What I mean is that Jones can be a number one on some, if not many NFL teams.
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Old 05-05-2013   #345
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Like I said, I can't comment on the Wayne's situation; I'm just not familiar with the Colts back then.

With the Falcons, they have had a solid defense for a while.
It looks like they were in win-mode at the time, so they spent a boat load to get Jones.
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?

If you don't mind taking a number two receiver with a first round pick, it's fine with me. It's just not my preference.

I like to have a guy with good potential to become a number one or as good a number one on other teams with my first round pick.
And I'm saying that your assertion that Hopkins can't be a number 1 is silly. Unless you're hitting on every prospect that you study then there's no way you can say with certainty that he can't or won't be a number 1.
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Old 05-05-2013   #346
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Like I said, I can't comment on the Wayne's situation; I'm just not familiar with the Colts back then.

With the Falcons, they have had a solid defense for a while.
It looks like they were in win-mode at the time, so they spent a boat load to get Jones.
Is there any doubt that Jones can be a number one on several NFL teams?

If you don't mind taking a number two receiver with a first round pick, it's fine with me. It's just not my preference.

I like to have a guy with good potential to become a number one or as good a number one on other teams with my first round pick.
So you wouldn't spend a #1 on Hines Ward?

Jeremy maclin?

We are talking pick 27 here. Not a top ten pick. 5 picks later would you be ok with it?
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Old 05-05-2013   #347
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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What I mean is that Jones can be a number one on some, if not many NFL teams.
Jones was picked #6 overall.
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Old 05-05-2013   #348
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Aj Jenkins was drafted in the first round last year.

Kendall wright was taken earlier than Hopkins was. Michael Floyd gonna take the number one spot from fitz? Who the heck is John Baldwin? Is Jeremy maclin the #1 over design Jackson who was taken in the 2nd...

Guess the saints deeply regret getting meachem.

Looking back at the drafts over the years, if you get a solid starter at the end of the first round you did good.

This thought that you have to draft a #1 there is ridiculous.

But that said, there's nothing saying Hopkins can't grow into a 1 after Andre is retired.
You guys are throwing out too many names without even looking deeply into those situations first.

For example, the Saints are a spread team; and like I said, a team like that can use two good receivers.

Wright led the Titans in catch as a rookie with 18 more than Washington and 19 more than Britt. Obviously, they liked to use him in the short game a lot (and he was out for one game as well).

Was A J Jenkins a good move for the Niners?
Would the Cardinals be better off drafting a QB instead?
Same thing with the Chiefs.

The only time in his 4-yr career when Maclin had fewer catches than D Jackson was his rookie year.
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Old 05-05-2013   #349
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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U say that,but who uses a 1st rd pick on a wr who won't be the #1 guy? Again, more than the 40yd sprint,the 20 yd short shuttle counts a lot for me. Through research, there haven't been a good wr perform as slow as hopkins in that category. The shuttles represent quickness out the break to create seperation. As a wr, unless you're a 4.3 guy, its gonna be hard to get away from press man.
Can I see some of these articles? I just went through a few years of the combine and checked out the top wr performers in the 20 yd short shuttle. None of the names impressed me very much. I then looked at most positions and I didn't see many impressive guys. Austin Pettis with a 3.88, Shiloh Keo with a 3.90, Jeff Maehl with a 3.94, Mike Mohamed with a 4.00, Terrence Toliver with a 4.03, Antwaun Molden with a 4.14, and on and on and on. What number do guys HAVE to hit in this drill? I love what Hopkins brings. He's got very long arms, huge hands, a 36 inch vertical. He is a stud. The only thing I cannot find is his 3-cone drill number.
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Old 05-05-2013   #350
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Jones was picked #6 overall.
I know, and I expected him to have the talent to be a number one receiver on many teams.
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Old 05-05-2013   #351
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by greekdbag View Post
Can I see some of these articles? I just went through a few years of the combine and checked out the top wr performers in the 20 yd short shuttle. None of the names impressed me very much. I then looked at most positions and I didn't see many impressive guys. Austin Pettis with a 3.88, Shiloh Keo with a 3.90, Jeff Maehl with a 3.94, Mike Mohamed with a 4.00, Terrence Toliver with a 4.03, Antwaun Molden with a 4.14, and on and on and on. What number do guys HAVE to hit in this drill? I love what Hopkins brings. He's got very long arms, huge hands, a 36 inch vertical. He is a stud. The only thing I cannot find is his 3-cone drill number.
I think you want a combination of as many test scores as possible:
The 10-yd split, the vertical, the broad jump - all are designed to measure the explosiveness of a receiver (and the forty time is also a consideration, with the 3-cone time not as important for receivers.)
Hopkins isn't among the top guys with a good combination of those tests.
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Old 05-05-2013   #352
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by TexansSeminole View Post
I would agree that having Tajh Boyd was extremely beneficial to Hopkins. I don't understand why some people think Boyd is overrated. I'm not picking on any poster here, because I live in ACC country and I hear it down here as well. I have Boyd as my #1 quarterback prospect for next year. He and Bridgewater look the most impressive to me.

Boyd is somewhat like a Russell Wilson, in that he just makes plays. He doesn't stand out physically, but he just makes it happen. I remember Russell Wilson at NC State and he was an absolute monster, much like Boyd. I was always very high on Wilson, much higher than most, but maybe that's because not alot of people got to see him play for NC State. It was not like at Wisconson; many times at NC State he would throw it 40 times a game. He was so good and used to BURN Florida State. Boyd does the same thing.

More on topic, Hopkins is probably pretty difficult to grade. Clemson's offense is so unique and Tajh Boyd does keep plays alive with his legs, that sometimes guys just get WIDE open. I love Hopkins though and I think he is going to be a hell of a pro. Many times that he did get wide open, he got himself open through route running precision, so I am not at all concerned about him being a product of their system.
Bridgewater is miles ahead of Boyd for me. I have never been able to get on the Tahj Boyd wagon. Maybe it's because I watched a bunch of his games in 2011 and his accuracy was not impressive to me.
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Old 05-05-2013   #353
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
And I'm saying that your assertion that Hopkins can't be a number 1 is silly. Unless you're hitting on every prospect that you study then there's no way you can say with certainty that he can't or won't be a number 1.
I'm saying that the probabilty is not high.

You have to take into considerations all of those tests that I just mentioned in a post above. They don't give as a good a probability than those that were studied in a certain metric valuation that some board members had posted somewhere. (I think CNND had a post in the NFL forum about it.)
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Old 05-05-2013   #354
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I think you want a combination of as many test scores as possible:
The 10-yd split, the vertical, the broad jump - all are designed to measure the explosiveness of a receiver (and the forty time is also a consideration, with the 3-cone time not as important for receivers.)
Hopkins isn't among the top guys with a good combination of those tests.
Well, a 1.55 10-yard split is really good and a 36 inch vertical is good as well. He also killed it in the gauntlet drill. And he measured in with very big hands and very long arms as I've said before. I just see a Roddy White clone when I watch him play, though, which is what matters most.

He had the over 4.5 forty time at the combine but he ran sub 4.5 at his pro day so take that for what it's worth.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/sto...sh-441-seconds
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Old 05-06-2013   #355
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

The only guy I would have taken over Hopkins is Datone Jones and he went one spot before. I also liked Sylvester Williams, but Hopkins was higher on the list for me. And has it been confirmed that Minnesota offered us the same trade as they offered to NE? Rick Smith's brother is on twitter lol and he said the only trade down offer they had involved an added fifth rounder. If you want Hopkins badly, which the Texans did, you don't risk losing him just to add an extra fifth.
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Old 05-06-2013   #356
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I'm saying that the probabilty is not high.

You have to take into considerations all of those tests that I just mentioned in a post above. They don't give as a good a probability than those that were studied in a certain metric valuation that some board members had posted somewhere. (I think CNND had a post in the NFL forum about it.)
The tests set the ceiling huh? I must be too old school to understand that and I'm only 31. Sorry, I'm just not buying what you're selling in this particular situation.
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Old 05-06-2013   #357
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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The tests set the ceiling huh? I must be too old school to understand that and I'm only 31. Sorry, I'm just not buying what you're selling in this particular situation.
No, it doesn't set the ceiling, it gives you a certain probability.

A guy with a good combination of a 10-yd split, the vertical, and the broad jump demonstrates more explosiveness than one who doesn't.

Then you add those with the facts whether he can run good routes, which Hopkins does well (but not great).
Then you consider the fact that he had quite a few dropped balls, and you have to factor that into your consideration.
Some may think it a red flag when he took plays off against lesser opponents (I don't.)

In the process of evaluation, like I had mentioned before, there are other things you want to consider: the level of play of the QB (whether the running game or the line play hurt or helped), the level of competition, etc.
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Old 05-06-2013   #358
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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No, it doesn't set the ceiling, it gives you a certain probability.

A guy with a good combination of a 10-yd split, the vertical, and the broad jump demonstrates more explosiveness than one who doesn't.

Then you add those with the facts whether he can run good routes, which Hopkins does well (but not great).
Then you consider the fact that he had quite a few dropped balls, and you have to factor that into your consideration.
Some may think it a red flag when he took plays off against lesser opponents (I don't.)

In the process of evaluation, like I had mentioned before, there are other things you want to consider: the level of play of the QB (whether the running game or the line play hurt or helped), the level of competition, etc.
Again, I respect the time you put into your research but it makes me chuckle some. Anyway, I see where you stand on it and disagree with his elite "probability". Keep doing what you do though even if I disagree with you on occasion.
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Old 05-06-2013   #359
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Well, a 1.55 10-yard split is really good and a 36 inch vertical is good as well. He also killed it in the gauntlet drill. And he measured in with very big hands and very long arms as I've said before. I just see a Roddy White clone when I watch him play, though, which is what matters most.

He had the over 4.5 forty time at the combine but he ran sub 4.5 at his pro day so take that for what it's worth.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/sto...sh-441-seconds
From the same article:

"Not everything went perfectly for Hopkins during Thursday's workout. He dropped two passes during position drills, then promptly did 20 pushups for the pair of miscues."

This is one part of his game that is not great.
If you want to, but don't have game tapes, you can check out the game book from the ncaa football stats website (it's a pain in the neck.)
They recorded dropped balls (for some games, but not all - I think the NCAA may not have top-level statastics keepers at all games.)
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Old 05-06-2013   #360
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Again, I respect the time you put into your research but it makes me chuckle some. Anyway, I see where you stand on it and disagree with his elite "probability". Keep doing what you do though even if I disagree with you on occasion.
Well, the Texans had bombed before when I disagreed.
They took Anthony Hill when I said I'd rather go with Brandon Myers.

Myers eventually became a starter for the Raiders; he recently signed a 4-yr deal worth $14.25 with the Giants.

Where is Anthony Hill?

I'm just saying that to show that I do spend time evaluating players (not all of them, only those of interest to me - which means most of the receivers in the last two draft classes and a few in the next class.)
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