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Old 05-05-2013   #321
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

I'm sorry 76 but that makes no sense. When you pick at the bottom of the first round you have to pick the best player you can.

This wasn't a top ten pick. There's nothing wrong with picking a guy at 27 that you think his floor is solid 2nd wr.
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Old 05-05-2013   #322
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
27.......

We got Hopkins at 27. The only WR off the board was Tavon Austin.

What do we say about QBs when only one goes in the first round?

What do we say about the RB class when none of them go in the first round?

How does that apply to WRs who were passed by 26 other teams?

It's not a definite that Hopkins won't amount to much, or that none of the 2013 running backs will be all-pros, that's not what I'm saying. He's going to have flaws
I meant starting with the Texans pick WRs started off the boards...

18 picks in a row, no WRs (9-26)

Then in a space of 15 picks:
27 Hopkins
29 Patterson
34 Hunter
41 Woods

Then another 17 picks in a no WRs (42-58 -> which carries you to after the Texans 2nd round pick).

So the point being if you traded back from 27 to 42 or 35, you would have lost a lot on picking the WR you wanted.

The argument "WRs who were passed by 26 other teams" is inherently self-defeating. Anyone at any position picked #27 was passed over 26 times. That will lead you to: "J.J. Watt can't be any good - 10 teams passed over him. Blaine Gabbert is clearly better than Watt - he was picked ahead of him." And I don't think you want to go there.
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Old 05-05-2013   #323
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
There is your logic fail.
U say that,but who uses a 1st rd pick on a wr who won't be the #1 guy? Again, more than the 40yd sprint,the 20 yd short shuttle counts a lot for me. Through research, there haven't been a good wr perform as slow as hopkins in that category. The shuttles represent quickness out the break to create seperation. As a wr, unless you're a 4.3 guy, its gonna be hard to get away from press man.
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Old 05-05-2013   #324
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.
If only your first round picks contribute, you're failing your team. "Number two" receiver means starter. And seriously - all this "he can never be a number one receiver" stuff: he will never be Megatron or Andre but there aren't 32 of them in the league. If you pick a 10 year starter who becomes only the 16th best receiver in the NFL with the #27 pick that is pretty good. If you pick a number one receiver like Charles Rogers with the #2 pick, or Troy Williamson with the #7 pick then you are failing your team.
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Old 05-05-2013   #325
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

I believe 1st round WRs historically have a 75% failure rate.

But I'd like to think we got it right in '13. I know I wasn't enamored with the top of the '12 class in comparison.
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Old 05-05-2013   #326
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Fred View Post
If only your first round picks contribute, you're failing your team. "Number two" receiver means starter. And seriously - all this "he can never be a number one receiver" stuff: he will never be Megatron or Andre but there aren't 32 of them in the league. If you pick a 10 year starter who becomes only the 16th best receiver in the NFL with the #27 pick that is pretty good. If you pick a number one receiver like Charles Rogers with the #2 pick, or Troy Williamson with the #7 pick then you are failing your team.
Reggie wayne,dez bryant,hakeem nicks,kenny brit were all drafted late 1st correct?
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Old 05-05-2013   #327
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
If you use a first round pick on a number two receiver, you're failing your team.

We have to evaluate Hopkins as the number one receiver in a couple of years.
I totally and completely disagree with this thinking.

You want your 1st round picks to be starters.

A #2 WR is a starter.

You want your 1st round picks to build strengths.

IF Hopkins steps in and starts and upgrades the production we've gotten at the #2 WR spot, then it's a victory because it takes our WR corps which is questionable and takes a step into building it into a strength of our team.
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Old 05-05-2013   #328
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
Reggie wayne,dez bryant,hakeem nicks,kenny brit were all drafted late 1st correct?
Yes, all guys who are solid #2 receivers - forced into #1 if you don't have a real #1. Like Hopkins may be when Andre retires.
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Old 05-05-2013   #329
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

My mind is blown by some of the thinking in this thread. Bill had it right when he said let the guy play. Who in the hell thought a lot of receivers would go on to be #1 receivers that weren't highly drafted?

Obviously he won't be a #1 right now, but he doesn't need to be. There's a long list of receivers who were drafted outside of the top 10 that went on to be primary receivers later in their career. When they were drafted I'm sure some "gurus" projected them to be no better than number 2 quality. Its stupid right now to say what his ceiling is before he even throws on a Texans practice jersey.
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Old 05-05-2013   #330
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
There is your logic fail.
So you expected Hopkins to be a number one receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?
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Old 05-05-2013   #331
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
So you expected Hopkins to be a number receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?
So the Colts were stupid for drafting Reggie Wayne? Falcons stupid for drafting Julio Jones? C'mon 76 you're seriously bugging on some of the stuff you're saying here.
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Old 05-05-2013   #332
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
My mind is blown by some of the thinking in this thread. Bill had it right when he said let the guy play. Who in the hell thought a lot of receivers would go on to be #1 receivers that weren't highly drafted?

Obviously he won't be a #1 right now, but he doesn't need to be. There's a long list of receivers who were drafted outside of the top 10 that went on to be primary receivers later in their career. When they were drafted I'm sure some "gurus" projected them to be no better than number 2 quality. Its stupid right now to say what his ceiling is before he even throws on a Texans practice jersey.
It is people (teams and fans alike) like to evaluate players.
You have to make some type of projections.

BTW, in the college football forum, there was a thread about how the Tex as might take a receiver in the first.

There were a few top five lists from the "experts", none of them had Hopkins' name on it.
My response to those list is that there's no guarantee that those guys will have a better career than some others whose names were not on those lists.

Basically, I saw that the players have a little quirt here and there.
Some are better than others in certain facets; ie. I was saying that those guys may not have a better career than other guys including Hopkins.

Basically, I saw a bunch of second rounders, with only a few borderline first rounders; there wasn't a sure thing.
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Old 05-05-2013   #333
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
U say that,but who uses a 1st rd pick on a wr who won't be the #1 guy? Again, more than the 40yd sprint,the 20 yd short shuttle counts a lot for me. Through research, there haven't been a good wr perform as slow as hopkins in that category. The shuttles represent quickness out the break to create seperation. As a wr, unless you're a 4.3 guy, its gonna be hard to get away from press man.
1st Round WRs in the 20-32 range

2012 --
Kendall Wright, Titans -- A #2 receiver
AJ Jenkins, 49ers -- Expected to be a #2 but was only active for 3 games

2011 --
Jonathon Baldwin, Chiefs -- A #2 receiver behind Bowe

2010 --
Demaryius Thomas, Broncos -- #1/#2 receiver depending on what they planned on doing.
Dez Bryant, Cowboys -- #1 receiver but with high bust potential and they already had Miles Austin

2009 --
Percy Harvin, Vikings -- A future #1
Hakeem Nicks, Giants -- A no pressure, Future #1 with Smith and Manningham already on board, could end up as a #2 without a problem

2008 --
None.

2007 --
Dwayne Bowe, Chiefs -- A #1
Robert Meachem, Saints -- A hopeful #1 that busted
Craig Davis, Chargers -- A #2 with Vincent Jackson at #1
Anthony Gonzalez, Colts -- A future #2 with Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison still on board

2006 --
Santonio Holmes, Steelers -- A #2/#1 guy with Hines Ward already on board

2005 --
Matt Jones, Jags -- Who knows what the Jags were thinking here. A developmental receiver.
Mark Clayton, Ravens -- A future #1 to take over for Derrick Mason
Roddy White, Falcons -- A future #1/#2 behind Finneran and Michael Jenkins

Using a late first round pick on a guy who's a #2 receiver doesn't appear to be all that strange or unusual. Like I said in another post, don't look at it like #1 and #2, look at it like you've got 2 starting wideout positions to fill. So get the best guys you can.
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Old 05-05-2013   #334
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
So the Colts were stupid for drafting Reggie Wayne? Falcons stupid for drafting Julio Jones? C'mon 76 you're seriously bugging on some of the stuff you're saying here.
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.
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Old 05-05-2013   #335
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
So you expected Hopkins to be a number one receiver?
Or do you mean that you don't mind spending a first round pick on a number two?
I'm not Cak but...

I don't mind spending a 1st round draft choice on a #2 receiver.

I wouldn't even mind spending a 1st round draft choice on a slot receiver, if it was the right slot receiver.

I just want my first rounders to be starters.
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Old 05-05-2013   #336
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.
And Anthony Gonzalez?
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Old 05-05-2013   #337
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
It is people (teams and fans alike) like to evaluate players.
You have to make some type of projections.

BTW, in the college football forum, there was a thread about how the Tex as might take a receiver in the first.

There were a few top five lists from the "experts", none of them had Hopkins' name on it.
My response to those list is that there's no guarantee that those guys will have a better career than some others whose names were not on those lists.

Basically, I saw that the players have a little quirt here and there.
Some are better than others in certain facets; ie. I was saying that those guys may not have a better career than other guys including Hopkins.

Basically, I saw a bunch of second rounders, with only a few borderline first rounders; there wasn't a sure thing.
Its the draft my friend. There isn't a sure thing anytime you pick someone. And to clear it up I'm don't mind anyone evaluating. Where it gets silly though is proclaiming that a guy has a limited ceiling based on where he's drafted and the role that he'll initially play as some have done. Your opinion of him is completely fine and I have no problem with it. Again, I respect the time you've put into scouting him. I just disagree with your assessment of him.
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Old 05-05-2013   #338
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

I can see a spread team wanting to have two very good receivers on their team.
These teams likely don't draft a RB in the first round, or maybe they don't take a TE in the first; or maybe they just take one between those two positions.

Some team wants to win with offense; like the Colts.
When was the last time they have a good defense?
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Old 05-05-2013   #339
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I wasn't in the drafting scene back then so I have no idea about Wayne and why the Colts did what they did.

I saw Julio as a number one receiver in a year or two, which is what happened.
Reggie Wayne was the number 2 option the entire time Harrison was still playing. Well except for maybe his last year. And I hate to break it to you but Roddy White is still the number 1 option in Atlanta.
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Old 05-05-2013   #340
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Default Re: 1st Round- DeAndre Hopkins WR Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I can see a spread team wanting to have two very good receivers on their team.
These teams likely don't draft a RB in the first round, or maybe they don't take a TE in the first; or maybe they just take one between those two positions.

Some team wants to win with offense; like the Colts.
When was the last time they have a good defense?
This doesn't make any sense at all.
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