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Old 04-28-2013   #21
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Really? The defense finished in top 10 in both yards allowed and yards per rush. By that criteria, most of the league has a bad run defense.
Let's throw in also that we were tied with Denver for the least number of rushing TD's allowed so tied for 1st.
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Old 04-28-2013   #22
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Default Re: NT Concern...

We will sign another NT and ILB before training camp. I'm not worried. The FO is not done shaping this roster.
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Old 04-28-2013   #23
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Default Re: NT Concern...

Hell, Cody's still out there. If his back is up to it, he could still be an option.
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Old 04-28-2013   #24
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Really? The defense finished in top 10 in both yards allowed and yards per rush. By that criteria, most of the league has a bad run defense.
This has been brought up time and again; but there does seem to be this perception.

We were strong at stopping the run on the outside and we got good support from Quin. But we did get beat handily by N.E.; who got 122 yards from 24 rushing attempts and a 5.1 average.

Like I mentioned before, it's not so much the regular season - we are a playoff caliber team. It's getting over that next hump and beating the elite teams.

We are weak up the middle - NT, ILB and SS. We didn't adequately address any of these needs in the draft. That's OK, we really strengthened ourselves everywhere else and we're going to be better this year. We'll have to see how Wade addresses the middle this coming season. Cush, when he's back 100%, will make a big difference. And we'll have to see if Reed moves inside.

I'm ready for football.
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Old 04-28-2013   #25
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by dsorc View Post
I'm not worried about NT at all. We allowed a grand total of 5 rushing touchdowns last year. We were also top 10 in both rush yards per game and yards per rush. And that was with Cushing down for more than half the season.
Good point but I don't think that Cody was one of the main reasons that we finished with such good numbers. My point is that we had a chance to get a guy who can shoot a gap and command a double team but we drafted Sam Montgomery to play on the strongside who IMO will not be able to hold up in his coverage responsibilities. I'm less concerned with where we were last year in rush yards and more concerned with getting better. Personally I think that we would have improved more as a team drafting Montori Hughes instead of Sam Montgomery. I would have not been against drafting Chris Jones too so we could move Earl Mitchell to DE if we decide to part ways with Antonio Smith in order to free up cap space.
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Old 04-28-2013   #26
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Default Re: NT Concern...

For you stat guys That think we are good against the run. Well we aren't bad but when you consider 68% of Opposing teams runs were between the two guards against our defense, it shows that other teams see our middle as a weakness.

Maybe this is why Phillips defenses seem to start off strong but tend to wear down over time. When teams pound you up the middle enough and your NT isn't capable of keeping the ILB's clean, isn't it logical to think they (ILB's) will start to break down?

Maybe That's why our ILB's couldn't stay healthy last year. I know Cushing went down with a cheap shop. I'm talking about all the other injuries our ILB's had. And don't forget Cody's back as well.
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Old 04-28-2013   #27
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Default Re: NT Concern...

Rick Smith -- Kubiak too but wasn't allowed to choose same -- named 6'2", 302 lbs. 2012 MAC Defensive Player of the Year NT Chris Jones as their sleeper lower round pick to surprise. Both really like the young man.
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Old 04-28-2013   #28
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Maybe my memory is just awful, but I don't remember being overly concerned last year with being punished up the middle in the run game.

We were 7th against the run. 9th in points allowed.

The run game only hurt us twice. Against New England in the regular season & against the Colts @ Indy. Even All day had a rough day going up the middle against us.

True, the main reason our run defense looks so good on paper, was that we played with the lead most of the time. But our defense overall (including the run D) helped us get there.

We don't run a traditional 3-4, our NT is no more a NT than Jj Watt is a 3-4 DE. Seth Payne would have killed in this defense.
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Old 04-28-2013   #29
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
For you stat guys That think we are good against the run. Well we aren't bad but when you consider 68% of Opposing teams runs were between the two guards against our defense, it shows that other teams see our middle as a weakness.
But they got nothing. It doesn't matter that they perceive a weakness up the middle if they aren't getting any yards & they aren't scoring any TDs.

68% means they thought their strength was up the middle. 7th in yards allowed means that it wasn't.
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Old 04-28-2013   #30
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We were 7th against the run. 9th in points allowed.
We were tied for #1 in points allowed by rushing.
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Old 04-28-2013   #31
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Default Re: NT Concern...

Last year our running defense was strong. I believe someone used the Patriots playoff game as an example. The thing with that example is the same thing folks have been saying for a while. Wade pulls his NT's out quite a lot against spread teams. In fact, our NT's didn't even start that game which tells you Wade's mindset against spreads. Generally it is Smith and Watt more inside and the OLB's on the edges with a ILB and safety pulled up. NT on the sideline. We started that game with 3 safeties (and may Keo never see the field again).

Most of the season Mitchell played more than Cody so what is there really to base concern about? Were we worried about the run defense last year? No. It was folks passing the ball on us like crazy. When some runs opened up for the opposition it was against the spread which once again, the NT is generally not on the field. So if there any concerns it would be with Wade's philosophy and how he deals with the spread. But then again that is why we drafted Swearinger so the issue wasn't actually ignored by the FO or coaching staff.

Oh and Corrosion you are forgetting one more DE probably because he spent most of the year hurt but Jamison is still on roster (unless I missed something) and signed an extension in September so they have depth there if Crick bounces around like last year.
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Old 04-28-2013   #32
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Default Re: NT Concern...

Once again, teams started throwing on us so much late in the year it skewed the run stats. Week 3 Simms pointed out that we are undersized between the tackles but you can't run on us outside. I'd say all year that was a weakness. It didn't start becoming more apparent until Cushing went out.
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Old 04-28-2013   #33
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
We will sign another NT and ILB before training camp. I'm not worried. The FO is not done shaping this roster.
I'm not so sure about this. Maybe they sign the ILB but I don't think he will be anymore than a Brady James type who will come in and provide a little depth. The big worry should be the injury bug. If Cush goes down again we probably are back to the early exit in the Playoffs at best. If Sharpton can't stay healthy, and I don't see any proof that he will, we could get by with Dobbins or Reed in there.

As for the NT situation, right now they have Mitchell, Terrell McClain, David Hunter, and now Chris Jones. All of them are in the 300 lb range. Wade has had a number of chances to draft a bigger "run stuffing" NT and he's passed on all of them. So, I think the reality of the situation is, at least for this defense, that Wade prefers the lighter, quicker, penetrating NT with a "high motor" over the bigger "run stuffing" NT. I don't see this changing in the near future. My guess is, this season, that Mitchell will start and McClain will rotate with him until either Hunter or Jones are ready. Hunter could end up on the PS if he needs more seasoning and Jones may end up there also for awhile. I know they like Hunter and Jones a lot. Not sure what they think of McClain long term. He may be just a stop gap.
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Old 04-28-2013   #34
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
For you stat guys That think we are good against the run. Well we aren't bad but when you consider 68% of Opposing teams runs were between the two guards against our defense, it shows that other teams see our middle as a weakness.
Where else would you attack a 3-4 Defense? Sure as hell don't run a sweep, you run up the middle. More so when Cush went down.
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Old 04-28-2013   #35
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by Vance87 View Post
Once again, teams started throwing on us so much late in the year it skewed the run stats. Week 3 Simms pointed out that we are undersized between the tackles but you can't run on us outside. I'd say all year that was a weakness. It didn't start becoming more apparent until Cushing went out.
People keep saying this like Cushing played most of the year. He went out in game 5.

Quote:
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Seth Payne would have killed in this defense.
Several folks behind the scenes have talked about Payne in his prime would have been a beast if he was playing for us now.
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Old 04-28-2013   #36
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We were 7th against the run. 9th in points allowed.

The run game only hurt us twice. Against New England in the regular season & against the Colts @ Indy. Even All day had a rough day going up the middle against us.

True, the main reason our run defense looks so good on paper, was that we played with the lead most of the time. But our defense overall (including the run D) helped us get there.

We don't run a traditional 3-4, our NT is no more a NT than Jj Watt is a 3-4 DE. Seth Payne would have killed in this defense.

Does anyone have any averages?

Just curious.
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Old 04-28-2013   #37
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by Vance87 View Post
Once again, teams started throwing on us so much late in the year it skewed the run stats. Week 3 Simms pointed out that we are undersized between the tackles but you can't run on us outside. I'd say all year that was a weakness. It didn't start becoming more apparent until Cushing went out.
Then how does that affect your view on the pass defense stats .... They were #1 in completion percentage at 53%.
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Old 04-28-2013   #38
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
But they got nothing. It doesn't matter that they perceive a weakness up the middle if they aren't getting any yards & they aren't scoring any TDs.

68% means they thought their strength was up the middle. 7th in yards allowed means that it wasn't.
If you say so. Interpret the stats however you want. I'm telling you this, if we go into the season with what we have now we are in trouble. By the middle of the season our ILB's will be getting wore out. Don't be surprised if they become a mash unit once again.
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Old 04-28-2013   #39
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
But they got nothing. It doesn't matter that they perceive a weakness up the middle if they aren't getting any yards & they aren't scoring any TDs.

68% means they thought their strength was up the middle. 7th in yards allowed means that it wasn't.
I think you really have to examine those stats subjectively - Early in the season the Texans were ahead more often than not and teams were forced to pass.

Later in the season when the offense struggled , teams were able to run more effectively.

They were #1 or #2 during that first 12 games ... then fell to #7 after those last 4.

This tells me that as the offense goes , so goes the defense.

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If you say so. Interpret the stats however you want. I'm telling you this, if we go into the season with what we have now we are in trouble. By the middle of the season our ILB's will be getting wore out. Don't be surprised if they become a mash unit once again.
I think this is a subject worth exploring.

Generally in the 3-4 keping the LBers clean to make plays is important.

They got so much more production out of the front 3 than they did their LBers .... especially after Cushing went down that I wonder if this wasnt by design - putting Watt and Ninja in position to capitalize on mismatches at the expense of the LBers not named Cushing.
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Old 04-28-2013   #40
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Default Re: NT Concern...

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Then how does that affect your view on the pass defense stats .... They were #1 in completion percentage at 53%.
Weird, I guess you missed the Packers game, the second Jax game, the Detroit game, both Patriots games and the last Indy game.
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