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Old 11-30-2005   #41
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
...DAL, Torrin Tucker, couldn't find...
Tucker was an undrafted free agent. I never found out what happened with him, but early on he was thought to maybe have the talent and potential to be a first round pick, ended up with a grade that should have made him a first day pick and finally went undrafted.
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Old 11-30-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
Wistrom isn't a slouch for Seattle and Pitts faced Jared Allen versus KC. Allen has 8 sacks on the season, I believe.

pitts didnt do to well against winstrom but that was his first game back and since he has looked pretty good.
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Old 11-30-2005   #43
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Just for kicks, I decided to go take a look at what other teams do for their left tackle position. As I suspected, they pretty much draft 1st-round left tackles.

Gambling on getting our future LT in the 2nd or lower round doesn't seem like a great idea
Why can regular guys figure out something that an expert like Casserly can't figure out?

Pitts is okay (for a penalty machine) but he needs LOTS and lots of help. Where is Reggie Bush going to run with the defense in the backfield the moment the ball is snapped?
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Old 12-01-2005   #44
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That's pretty much my take on it as well, though I would definitely rather the team draft a LT in round 1 this year. That way they can keep Pitts at LT for a year or two to develop the rookie at RT and if Pitts just dominates, then you keep the new guy at RT and you have solid bookends for years to come. The right tackle position has been a real sore spot for me this year. Wade seems to do a pretty good job run blocking, but his pass protection is weak. With him out, we get a big dose of Riley, who was easily the worst linemen out there against StL this week.
what would you do with Wade - move him inside, Drew as C and McKinney as LG?
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Old 12-01-2005   #45
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what would you do with Wade - move him inside, Drew as C and McKinney as LG?
Have him compete for the RT starting job with evaluation at RG as well. If he doesn't win the job, then you have to decide if he's getting paid too much to be a backup. To me, every position on the line should be an all-out competition. There's merit to what some posters here have said about jobs being handed out and this is by far the worst unit on the field over the 4-year history of the franchise. Pitts, Wade, Wand, and the newly drafted tackle should compete for playing time/starting job, McKinney and Hodgdon should compete at Center, McKinney should be evaluated at LG with Pitts, and Wiegert at RG with competetion from Wand and maybe Wade. RG has me a bit concerned because Wiegert is really not bad there, but he's injured so frequently that you have to plan a contingency. I have stated elsehwere that I'd like to see them draft LT in the first round, but also take a guard in the middle rounds that can compete with Wiegert, McKinney, and Pitts. Milford Brown, Fred Weary, and Victor Riley are all free agents after this season and I don't believe any of them have shown themselves worthy of a starting job. They've seen the field quite a bit, due to injuries, but have not especially distinguished themselves. So I'd say two of those three are probably gone after this season, depending on who is available in the draft and what they decide to do with Wand.

That makes the O-line probably the most analyzed unit in mini-camps, training camp, and pre-season, but with all the turmoil we've had there for the duration of this team's existence, I think it's worth the effort.
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Old 12-01-2005   #46
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Pitts holds up to Freeney much better than Marvel Smith did last night (and Smith was a pro bowler last year). Smith was totally outclassed on several snaps. I think Pitts can handle the job long term myself...but would like to see us draft a top LT if we can get the right trade down package. We have to get better in the line instead of this current patchwork of guys who has proven to be less than stellar.
Pitts has done a very solid job as the left tackle the past few weeks and i believe that he could stick in that slot for years to come... he is a solid player that seems to have found his niche at the left tackle slot... the o-line could use some help, but i think if Houston grabs Bush with the first pick.. then they should focus on a Free Agent linemen... and grab some inside backers for that weak 3-4 with their second round pick... we have to be able to stop the run better... our pass protection, although some may disagree, has improved somewhat over the past 4 weeks... but we are still giving up almost 150 a game on the ground...
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Old 12-01-2005   #47
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Don't forget our deep need for a TE. Should be our 2nd rounder IMO. A tackle and then a TE would bring some seriouse help to the offense. With a trade down we should/might have another 2nd to snag a LB or if there is a stand out CB available. Then one of the 3s for a LB or CB which ever we don't get in the 2nd and then an O-lineman. Would make a pretty good 1st day IMO.
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Old 12-01-2005   #48
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Originally Posted by eriadoc
Just for kicks, I decided to go take a look at what other teams do for their left tackle position. As I suspected, they pretty much draft 1st-round left tackles. It seems to take a few years to develop one once you've drafted them, but most of the current LT in the league were top-20 picks (17 of them). Seven more were drafted as guards and not in the 1st round. That leaves 8 left tackles that were drafted lower than the 1st round, and you won't find many marquee players in those ranks.
So what. Players are made on the field, not the draft. Ever heard of Tom Brady? Ever heard of Ryan Leaf? This has absolutely no signifigance to Pitts' play.
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Old 12-02-2005   #49
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So what. Players are made on the field, not the draft. Ever heard of Tom Brady? Ever heard of Ryan Leaf? This has absolutely no signifigance to Pitts' play.
You're absolutely right! And history proves that you are correct - left tackles (well about 5 or 6 out of 32 - the other 26 are fine with their 1st rounder or not doing well with their current LT) were made on the field, not the draft. That's absolutely incredible! I love those players. They make the NFL the awesome sport it is today.

If you think we're going to "make" one of those minority players here in Houston, you might not want to start playing poker or casino games anytime soon. just a tip.

Pardon me for taking the liberty of formatting your quote so that it's not so incredibly annoying.

Last edited by eriadoc; 12-02-2005 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 12-02-2005   #50
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I still like Wand/Pitts on the left side. I think if they are there next year, they will be formidable. My concern has always been the players from Center to RT. DD has a hard time running to the right. But I am in a minority here ( ) because I think the problem is not the players on the line but the coaching of those players (i.e., Pendry). Under a different (read: and good) coach, they will burgeon as quality linemen. For this reason, I lean towards taking Bush in the first.

Last edited by Texans Horror; 12-02-2005 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 12-02-2005   #51
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Originally Posted by nunusguy
It could change, but right now the buzz is primarily about Bush and Leniert, therefor a teams has got to finish #1 or #2 to be in a strong position to expect other teams to offer them multiple picks to move up and take one
of the USC guys. Trouble is, I don't think we'll be one of the top 2 (or bottom 2, depending on how you look at it). Too many other teams "competing" for the top 2 spots have stronger remaining opponents
and/or weaker SOS, factors that work against our chances to end up with
a worse record or win tiebreakers.
Oh come on give these guys a chance. At least offer me the hope we can win the "toilet bowl " race.
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Old 12-02-2005   #52
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I still like Wand/Pitts on the left side. I think if they are there next year, they will be formidable. My concern has always been the players from Center to RT. DD has a hard time running to the right. But I am in a minority here ( ) because I think the problem is not the players on the line but the coaching of those players (i.e., Pendry). Under a different (read: and good) coach, they will burgeon as quality linemen. For this reason, I lean towards taking Bush in the first.
Wand looked horrible. as for leaning towards bush, I'll lean on the wall so that i don't make him fall.
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Old 12-02-2005   #53
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I won't go into the stats (they've been thrown around the boards a lot), but IMO, Wand was the best LT next to Pitts, and Pitts was the best LG. I think that if Wand had played this year instead of Riley, we would have been in a much better place. It was also the kid's rookie season (not really, but he had played kicking team the previous year), so I think he would have continued to improve with decent coaching, which is why I think the new coaches should consider the 2004 lineup. I also think that Reggie Bush will make the line look good the way that Vince Young makes his line look good. I'm not trying to bash either USC's or Texas' offensive lines, but I think that their impact players make their respective o-line's job easier.
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