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Old 04-14-2013   #41
TEXANRED
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Unless you consider tattoos a character issue, can't imagine what you are talking about because Babin was without negative character issues as far as anybody knew. For example, by all reports he was a devoted family man.
Trading away picks ? Maybe you thought Casserly overpaid for the 27th overall, but don't know what that's got to do with Babin being a bad pick. Misusing him or not coaching him correctly ? What's that got to do with him being a bad pick ?
Babin has been cut by the Texans, Seahawks, Chiefs, Eagles, played for 5 teams in 9 years and has had only 2 good seasons.

Babin is a bust.
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Old 04-14-2013   #42
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Posey was suspended his last year at Ohio State for NCAA violations.

Assume he comes back week 8, in the middle of football season, he still won't play b/c he won't be in football shape. He starts the season on the PUP and depending on need at WR at that time of the year he may end the year on IR. I anticipate after this draft to have our WR position taken care of. KMart starts the season as our 2nd receiver, our first rounder is 3rd and a vet plus Jean to finish out the WR core.

My point is you can't take 3 years off and expect to play at a high level.

I believe Posey played the final three games of his last year at Ohlo State, - I'm positive he played in their bowl game. More importantly, he continued to practice with the team while he was suspended, so it was actually more like a NCAA version of a practice squad. Aditionally, Posey was active for 11 games this past season, and while playing time was limited, the characterization that he was somehow not active during 2012 is blatently incorrect.

So if you're assumption of coming back after week 8 next season is correct, then your comment about taking 3 years off from football will only be wrong by 2.5 seasons.
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Old 04-14-2013   #43
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
I believe Posey played the final three games of his last year at Ohlo State, - I'm positive he played in their bowl game. More importantly, he continued to practice with the team while he was suspended, so it was actually more like a NCAA version of a practice squad. Aditionally, Posey was active for 11 games this past season, and while playing time was limited, the characterization that he was somehow not active during 2012 is blatently incorrect.

So if you're assumption of coming back after week 8 next season is correct, then your comment about taking 3 years off from football will only be wrong by 2.5 seasons.
Can't comment about practice, Posey played in 3 games, pretty sure Ohio State did not have a bowl game due to NCAA sanctions.

I am assuming Posey is put on IR at some point next year and does not make a week 8 debut.

Again, I hope he proves me wrong.
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Old 04-15-2013   #44
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Can't comment about practice, Posey played in 3 games, pretty sure Ohio State did not have a bowl game due to NCAA sanctions.

I am assuming Posey is put on IR at some point next year and does not make a week 8 debut.

Again, I hope he proves me wrong.
Lost to Florida in the Gator Bowl played Jan.2, 2012 . Posey caught 5 balls for 38 yards and a TD. Sanctions didn't kick in for another year.
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Old 04-15-2013   #45
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

1bennie joppru
2jason babin
3travis johnson
4amobi okoye
5antoine caldwell


im not putting carr on here. he had all the tools.
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Old 04-15-2013   #46
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED View Post
Babin has been cut by the Texans, Seahawks, Chiefs, Eagles, played for 5 teams in 9 years and has had only 2 good seasons.

Babin is a bust.
He's a multi-year Pro-Bowler who was also voted All-Pro. There's only a very few Texans players who can claim the same honors and accolades. Just because the Texans and apparently other teams couldn't figure out how to use his skills doesn't make him a bad pick. It means the Texans had incompetent coachs.
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Old 04-15-2013   #47
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
1. Rb Tony Hollings.

Drafted in the 2nd round of the supplemental draft, Hollings was a converted defensive back who played a limited number of college games as a rb (6 total if memory serves.) He was also comming off a broken leg. Based on draft slotting, draft projection (injury/college performance), and his production for the Texans, he gets top slotting from me.


2. Te Bennie Joppru.

Drafted in the 2nd round we never got anything from him because of injury after injury after injury. He was a myth. The only reason I dont slot him ahead of Hollings is he was regarded as a solid college te. There was more merit for his selection then Hollings. Casserly and company were unlucky with this pick because of injuries. They outsmarted themselves with Hollings.


3. Qb Dave Ragone

3rd round selection. Did he ever take a snap for the Texans? He was selected with Carr and Sage (or was it Banks) on the roster. He was picked because Casserly thought he could parlay Ragone into a 2nd round or 1st round selection down the road. Ragone was a luxury pick a playoff team gambles on. An expansion team desperate for more talent on the roster had no business picking him. Again the Texans outsmarted themselves here.

4. Olb Jason Babin

In a surprise move the Texans traded up into the first round and selected the bone chewing kid from western Michigan. He was sold to us as the next Kevin Green. Instead we got a guy who always had his back to the ball because all he knew how to do was an excruciatingly slow spin move. We did get some field production from Babin but it never lived up to his 1st round selection. Why do I rank him ahead of guys who performed arguably worse on the field you ask? Picking him cost us dearly with several picks when we needed talent the most. To magnify the problem we strengthened a division rival. Babin was a gamble we had to get right. We missed.

5. Dt Amobi Okoye

Lots of possible names could go here. We did get some production from him. He wins out as #5 on the worst list because he was picked higher then people like T Johnson, A Molden, or A Hill. We had high expectations for the brilliant youngster from Louisville. He had flashes his rookie season and then flat lined. He was one of the first big additions of the dismal frank bush era and the beginning of his downfall.

Post mortem:

Why isn't Carr on the list? Carr was a good college qb with great tools. You may recall the Texans were applauded by most nationally for taking Carr over Peppers. We all knew Peppers was going to be a monster but the Texans got a pass because quarterback is the most important position on the field...right? Things like "They're starting out the franchise right by getting the most talented qb available" were said by pundits everywhere. In hindsight we know Carr failed us. I think the Texans failed Carr just as much. I've said it before and it bares repeating - Carr was never going to be great, but he had a chance to be average. The bumbling idiots surrounding carr with bad talent and worse coaching sabotaged his career as much as Carr did.
Why is Joppru a bad pick ? He had miserable luck because of his injuries, but that was misfortune, terrible luck, whatever. The guy had no history of being chronically injured in college.
Now on the other hand, you got Hollings right, he was a really bad pick.
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Old 04-15-2013   #48
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
He's a multi-year Pro-Bowler who was also voted All-Pro.
When was Babin voted All Pro?
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Old 04-15-2013   #49
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

To me Okoye has to be higher. You left some serious talent on the board (Wilis and Revis) for a raw 19 year old kid. Its not even hind site because I think everybody knew that at least Wilis was going to be at worst solid. Tons of initial talent and even more upside. Hated the pick at the time and really hate it now. Just makes me sick.

And on Boselli, I think the risk was worth the reward. He was a hall of fame caliber LT if he recovered, so I am ok with taking a flyer on him. To me, as good as he was, Pitts was over drafted. He was a guy who would have possibly been around in the 3rd or 4th. It worked out but would have been even better value if he was taken later.
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Old 04-15-2013   #50
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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When was Babin voted All Pro?
2010 with the Titans when he got 12.5 sacks and then again in 2011 with the Eagles when he got 18 sacks.
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Old 04-15-2013   #51
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

I think this franchise just started off with a doofus draft philosophy. Taking skill guys before linemen was just a brutal way to start a franchise. The first two picks could have set the tempo for a team building inside-out but instead we have to go for two shiny objects in year one. Chester Pitts was the only decent pick on the first day of that draft. So, I think the worst draft picks were the first two picks in franchise history.

David Carr - should have taken LT Bryant McKinnie or DE Julius Peppers
Gabbar Gaffney - Andre Gurode or LeCharles Bentley would have solidified our offensive line in year ONE. The Texans should have been more patient, but it is what it is.

Boselli got us Walker (he went to the Pro Bowl with us) and Payne so I don't consider him a "worst draft pick". I think the Texans ended up 16th in defense that year so those guys were important cogs. Boselli didn't cost us anything (since it was an expansion pick) except perhaps the consideration of drafting linemen early and often in our inaugural draft.
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Old 04-15-2013   #52
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
What's that got to do with him being a bad pick ?
Don't know how you picked my post to argue with, since I was essentially arguing that he doesn't deserve to be on a top 5 worst pick list. I have said more than once that the Texans misused him, and as a result of that film, it took a while for some team to finally cast him in a different role. At that point, he had success. And I argued as much while he was still a Texan.
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Old 04-15-2013   #53
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Why is Joppru a bad pick ? He had miserable luck because of his injuries, but that was misfortune, terrible luck, whatever. The guy had no history of being chronically injured in college.
Now on the other hand, you got Hollings right, he was a really bad pick.
With Joppru, I think it all depends on how the individual making up the list defines "bust".

If your definition of a "bust" is someone who is drafted high but never produces at the expected level, then Joppru is a bust because he was drafted relatively high and never saw the field.

If your definition of a "bust" is when the FO makes a bonehead mistake and drafts someone at a bad spot or if the guy was injured and not producing wasn't his "fault", then Joppru isn't a bust.

To me, it doesn't make any difference how talented the guy was or whether he had the potential to be great. If he doesn't produce anything on the field and he was drafted high, then he was a bust.

For me "bust" is mostly about the 1st 2 rounds. When you get down to the 3rd round, it's more iffy because on a good team, those guys aren't necessarily expected to move right in and be great. But also, a guys not a bust until he's given a few years to produce. So no one drafted from 2010 on should be classified as a bust. (I also wouldn't include expansion draft guys.)

So... with that definition, we really don't have a lot to work with. Only 30 picks. When I put all that together, I've got 6 guys I consider complete busts, 3 guys that are knocking on the door, and 2 guys on the bubble.

1. Charles Hill
2. Bennie Joppru
3. Dave Ragone
4. Tony Hollings
5. Travis Johnson
6. Vernand Morency

7. David Carr
8. Charles Spencer
9. Amobi Okoye

10. Seth Wand
11. Antwaun Molden

It hurt me to put Charles Spencer in there because he COULD have been a great tackle for us. But we only got a game out of him.

The thing that burns me the most about the Dave Ragone pick is that we took TWO QBs in the draft that year: Ragone and Henson. We couldn't have used those picks for guys who could have played? Really?
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Old 04-15-2013   #54
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Seems to me you need to distinguish between best and worst choice v. result. There was nothing wrong with the choice to draft Joppru but the result sucked.
The thing that was wrong about drafting Joppru was that Jason Witten was right there waiting for us at the time we drafted Joppru.
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Old 04-15-2013   #55
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

I don’t consider a pick a bad pick if it’s used on a player with no previous history of injury who later gets hurt. That’s why I can’t look at Bennie Joppru or Charles Spencer as bad picks. They weren’t bad picks. They were picks that turned out bad due to factors no one could have foreseen.

Honorable Mention: Dave Ragone

So exactly why did we need to take a QB in the 3rd round in our second year of existence when the team was filled with holes and any pick, at any position other than QB would have made more sense? And why exactly did we take this guy? Not only was he not capable of playing at this level (went to camp with the Rams and didn’t catch on with anyone, ever again) but we needed so much more help in so many more places. 3rd round picks were too valuable to pull this bull**** with in 2003. This is one of those early decisions that made you wonder about the Texans brain trust.

5. Antwaun Molden

Even as I type this I’m tempted to drop him down to 5 and bring Ragone up to 4. Molden was the guy you could never be sure about. Never sure about anything. Did he not pan out with the Texans or did the Texans fail to develop him? The world will never know but when we needed help in the defensive backfield as badly as we ever had and the cupboard was as empty as it possibly could have gotten Antwaun Molden couldn’t do jack **** here. He’s bounced from New England, to the Giants, and to Jacksonville since then so I’m inclined to think it’s Molden and not us. Granted he was a never could stay healthy guy and I said that I didn’t want to penalize picks for that but it’s not like he had a monster career-killing injury. Instead he had a collection of dings and dents that he couldn’t play through. In a league where everyone plays hurt when it matters he couldn’t. He hasn’t done anything anywhere else either. Waste of a 3rd round pick and an enormous disappointment.

4. Tony Hollings

This is what desperation does to people. They blow a 2nd rounder in a supplemental draft on a guy who goes on to knock out 149 yards total for a 3.0 yard average and never even sniffs the end zone. We picked up Hollings in 2002 when James Allen and Jonathan Wells proved incapable of reaching 4 yards per carry. Hollings didn’t even get on the field until 2003 and when he did he was nothing special. One year later Domanick Davis proved to be about 10 times the running back Hollings was and he came from the 4th round. Look at the second round of the 2003 draft and take in some of the guys who were still waiting to be picked. Guys like Osi Umenyiora, Anquan Boldin, Charles Tillman, Jon Stinchcomb, and E.J.Henderson were taken in that round. We ourselves took the ill-fated Bennie Joppru but we’d have had another shot at 2nd round success that year if we hadn’t stupidly blown our other pick on Tony Hollings. The 2002 line was a train wreck in pass protection and it was just as bad at run blocking. The answer was building an offensive line that could have made a difference (Stinchcomb) or drafting a stable mate for Andre Johnson (Boldin). Instead we put another mediocre back behind a lousy line. Good move.

3. Travis Johnson

What a pathetic scrub we managed to find in Travis Johnson. I remember screaming at the radio when Derrick Johnson was somehow still available with the 13th pick. Instead Charlie traded back to 16, gave up a shot at Jammal Brown (Texans didn’t need a LT did they?) and Derrick Johnson for the chance to pick up a guy who couldn’t bust out on a line as lousy as the Texans were in 2005. He did nothing the entire time he was here. A first round pick who gave us 2 sacks in 38 starts. Honestly now, was anyone excited when we drafted Travis Johnson? Anybody?

2. Amobi Okoye

Okoye being picked in 2007 was very much in the same vein as Travis Johnson in that we left a lot of talent on the board and instead took this guy. Unlike TJ though Okoye was a huge project. If memory serves he was only 11 years old when he started his first game for the Texans and every year he played here we got an update explaining that he wasn’t done growing and should really be in his “junior year of college” for example. He gave us 4 years, 11 sacks, and we got to watch him grow up and fall farther behind other players from his draft every year. This is why you don’t waste first round picks on projects who aren’t done growing up. Okoye was weak when compared to other NFL players and was easily pushed around by offensive linemen. I used to call him “The shopping cart”. What’s worse is he was taken before very obvious stars like Patrick Willis and Darrelle Revis. Watching the Texans take him when so many “ready to play” players were waiting there was truly an epic WTF? Moment.

1. David Carr

Worst pick in franchise history. Set the team back easily 5 years and his inability to read a defense, remember where the line of scrimmage was, or sense pressure kept the Texans building and rebuilding their offensive line the entire time he was here. You build a football team from the lines out and Julius ****ing Peppers was standing there for the taking. It’s not possible to screw that up worse than the Texans did. Then they started him from day one no less. Assuming that David Carr could have ever become even half the player that the Texans seemed to think he was putting him out there from the very beginning was like buying an expensive Ming vase and then using it to decorate your local preschool playground. This is why I think Casserly, Capers, and Palmer should never again be able to make decisions on personnel in the NFL. Someone should always be there next to them with a “No, we’re not doing that” card. You know you have no offensive line. You know that they suck more than anyone could have ever imagined. You still put the most valuable asset you own (the guy that crap line is supposed to protect) out there and think he’s going to be ok? Then when it’s obvious that he’s not going to be ok you leave him there. Incredible.
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Old 04-15-2013   #56
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

1. David
2. Carr
3. Carr's brother
4. Carr's dad
5. Carr's hair
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Old 04-15-2013   #57
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
1. David
2. Carr
3. Carr's brother
4. Carr's dad
5. Carr's hair

Well, yeah that would also be valid.
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Old 04-15-2013   #58
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

Worst and or Most Hated Draft Picks:
1.) Bennie Joppru (Dissapointing to say the least)
2.) David Carr (Gave new meaning to the fetal position)
3.) Travis Johnson (Probably the reason the Texans want high class individuals ever after)
4.) Jacoby Jones (Never became the threat he was drafted to be.)
5.) Tony Hollings (Lost a 2nd round pick because of this no-show.)
6.) Jason Babin
7.) Seth Wand
8.) Charles Hill
9.) Matt Stevens
10.) Antwaun Molden


Best and or Favorite Draft Picks:
1.) Andre Johnson (The BP in Texans franchise history. Period)
2.) J.J. Watt (Is more than a great football player, a great person for the city)
3.) Duane Brown (Turned all nonbelievers into believers)
4.) Mario Williams (A stud when he wants to be. Potentially unblockable.)
5.) Domanick Davis (Made the early Texans offense watchable)
6.) Aaron Glenn (Made the early Texans defense watchable)
7.) Brian Cushing (Insane on the field. 3 down linebacker who always works hard)
8.) Drew Henson (Turned his sorry 6th round ass into a 3rd, Thanks Cowgirls)
9.) Brice McCain (6th round pick becoming a damn good cover corner)
10.) DeMeco Ryans (Captain of our defense during some tough years)
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Old 04-15-2013   #59
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Well, yeah that would also be valid.
Just thinking back on that entire era makes me kind of sad.
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Old 04-15-2013   #60
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Default Re: Top 5 Best and Worst Draft picks in Texans History

Okay...I have to say the WORST draft decision the Texans ever made was a few years ago when they let me and Bill play special teams. Dumbest mistake they EVER made. I regret NOTHING!
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