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Old 04-11-2013   #81
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You hear Kubiak occasionally talking about yards they left on the field. And we know that Kubiak yells at his QBs (see Sage, Carr), so I doubt he doesn't let Matt know about each and every one of them.

But.

The difference between Schaub and HWWNBN is so amazingly vast that it's just insane to compare them. But. I will. Kinda. I remember when I was just hoping for a QB who could throw for over 3600 yards, 16+ TDs, and <13 INTs in a season. It wasn't good.
If you want to compare stats then it paints one picture, but if you compare them individually it is interesting.

Carr had a better arm and better wheels and was more of a pure athlete. He was a young rookie thrown into the fire and crushed play after play. Many of his questionable decisions came from trying to extend the play or do too much and force things, while some would say being shell-shocked.

Schaub had been in the league as a back up and was supposed to be a plug and play superstar if you believed the hype surrounding all the teams trying to trade for him. He doesn't have a strong arm and has never been mobile so what you need is a pocket passer with superior accuracy and great football intellect who doesn't make mistakes with the ball. What you have is a guy who has piled up yards and stats from receivers YAC and quite often throws the ball off target only to have the intended receiver adjust and save his stats. Typically his glaring mental mistakes are just that, glaring mental mistakes, not generated by his competitiveness and overwhelming desire to make a play or give that extra effort.

I agree they are vastly different, but in the end believe the stat that matters most will elude them both in their careers. Super Bowl winning quarterback.
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Old 04-11-2013   #82
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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....the stat that matters most will elude them both in their careers. Super Bowl winning quarterback.
It definitely has that feeling much of the time. You look for something that will make you believe that he's not just capable of doing it by some kind of abstract standard but that he will step up when he has to and make it happen but those moments just don't happen often enough or against those must-win-this-game quality opponents.
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Old 04-11-2013   #83
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
It definitely has that feeling much of the time. You look for something that will make you believe that he's not just capable of doing it by some kind of abstract standard but that he will step up when he has to and make it happen but those moments just don't happen often enough or against those must-win-this-game quality opponents.
This whole post applies to about 2/3rds of teams in the NFL though. Certified franchise/elite/great......whatever you want to call them qbs are the only guys who bring that to the table week in week out, year in year out.
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Old 04-11-2013   #84
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
This whole post applies to about 2/3rds of teams in the NFL though. Certified franchise/elite/great......whatever you want to call them qbs are the only guys who bring that to the table week in week out, year in year out.
Agree.

And even though I'm never high on Schaub, I still want to reiterate that this team is built (money-wise and therefore, talent-wise) to have both units contributing in big wins. It's not supposed to be on Schaub's shoulder.

In 09, Schaub played well down the stretch to get the Texans to 9-7.

In 2010, the Texans kept finding way to lose game.
The loss to the Ravens came on an INT by Schaub, sure.
But he played a heck of a game bringing the team back.
The whole season really rested on the ineptness of the D.

In 2011, Schaub certainly played well enough to post a 7-3 record before he got injured.

And it's hard to fault your QB in 2012 when he won 12 games.
This was a year where the previously 2nd rank Defense was supposed to help the Texans cause. It fell apart with Cushing's injury.
Let's not forget that we spent a lot of resources on the D in 2011; the draft picks we made on offense in 2012 didn't make enough of an impact - Jones, Brooks, Posey, and Martin. If we had spent the resources on offense in 2011 instead, the offense would have been better in 2012, when we lost Winston, Brisiel, Dreesen, Jacoby; not to mention Leach/Vickers.
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Old 04-11-2013   #85
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
If you want to compare stats then it paints one picture, but if you compare them individually it is interesting.

Carr had a better arm and better wheels and was more of a pure athlete. He was a young rookie thrown into the fire and crushed play after play. Many of his questionable decisions came from trying to extend the play or do too much and force things, while some would say being shell-shocked.

Schaub had been in the league as a back up and was supposed to be a plug and play superstar if you believed the hype surrounding all the teams trying to trade for him. He doesn't have a strong arm and has never been mobile so what you need is a pocket passer with superior accuracy and great football intellect who doesn't make mistakes with the ball. What you have is a guy who has piled up yards and stats from receivers YAC and quite often throws the ball off target only to have the intended receiver adjust and save his stats. Typically his glaring mental mistakes are just that, glaring mental mistakes, not generated by his competitiveness and overwhelming desire to make a play or give that extra effort.

I agree they are vastly different, but in the end believe the stat that matters most will elude them both in their careers. Super Bowl winning quarterback.
Carr had the potential to be a better QB than Schaub. But he doesn't have the work ethic or the brains to do it.

About halfway through the 2004 season, Carr either shut down or coorrdinators figured him out. For the first half of that season, Carr was playing really, really good. IIRC, he was averaging 270 yards per game and not making a lot of mistakes. And then something happened and he was never the same. His average dropped (again, iirc), to 170 yards per game.

Schaub doesn't have the arm strength or the wheels that Carr had. And sometimes he gets saved when he has bad location on his throws by great catches... BUT... Schaub throws a catchable ball. This was the difference between him and Vick with the Falcons. Vick had the stronger arm but the receivers dropped his throws more often than Schaub's passes because of that. Schaub is an infinitely better QB than Carr.

With the right team around him, Schaub can win a Super Bowl. By the time Kubiak got here, Carr could NOT win a Super Bowl. There's no way he could perform at a high enough level that even a team like the Trent Dilfer Ravens could save him.
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Old 04-11-2013   #86
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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I was one that wanted to give Carr the benefit of the doubt under first year head coach Gary Kubiak. It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr.

At that point it was disgustingly apparent that Carr was all about his family (not there's anything wrong with that) but football was an afterthought to him.

Thus, HWSNBM, or various versions of such a scorned player around here should be named... Thanks for nothing!!!!

Whether a once Carr fan or not, how much does it piss you off that he has a Super Bowl ring???

Me?

Not so cool with it.......... Just sayin'!!
Rookie QB, no veteran backup to mentor him, didn't have dedicated QB coach, and on an expansion franchise....tough hand for anyone. Glad he got a ring, even if a backup.
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Old 04-11-2013   #87
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Rookie QB, no veteran backup to mentor him, didn't have dedicated QB coach, and on an expansion franchise....tough hand for anyone. Glad he got a ring, even if a backup.
Glad he lived up to his #1 overall draft status.
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Old 04-11-2013   #88
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Glad he lived up to his #1 overall draft status.
Few of them do. None when the Texans draft them.
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Old 04-12-2013   #89
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Few of them do. None when the Texans draft them.
'eh, I heard a stat the other day that QB's are the position most in the hall of fame of any position in any round.

14 QBs in the HoF that have been drafted in the first round. No other position comes close according to NFLN.

David Carr should have been a third round pick - at best - and allowed to develop on the bench for 2-3 years before being thrown to the wolves. His work ethic and film study skills were lax according to his own words, and someone should have worked on him to develop those basic fundamental aspects of being an NFL QB.

I think the marketing department had too much influence on football operations back then. Marketing was in overdrive to make an impact with a new expansion team, and David Carr looked handsome in those spiffy new uniforms. They needed a poster boy and Carr fulfilled that position well. Unfortunately, it ultimately damaged his career as his apparent overwhelming and permanent shell shock (according to most everyone it seems) have left him unable to even compete for a starting job.
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Old 04-12-2013   #90
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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I think Carr would have stayed around. We would have drafted someone like Trent Edwards in the second round, assuming we didn't draft Kevin Kolb in the first instead of Amobi Okoye. Let's say we went with the Kolb option.

There would have been an open competition for the QB position and I think Sage would have won it. Sage would have gotten injured during the season and Kubiak would have given Carr one more shot... and he failed. So Kubiak would have brought Kolb in and Kolb would have done OK.

The next year, Carr would have been released and again we go with the open competition at QB. This time, Kolb wins and he's anointed the future of the franchise. And he would have gotten injured and the next few seasons would have been juggling Kolb and Sage. And Kubiak would have been fired after 4 seasons.

And then in 2010, we would have a new coach and we'd have drafted Tim Tebow. And now, in 2013, we'd have another new coach and we'd be looking at Geno Smith or EJ Manuel.
Disagree.

I think Carr was pretty much as good as gone. Rather than Okoye, the Texans would have selected Brady Quinn and the QB guru, Gary Kubiak, would have been in charge of molding him. I think he would have struggled and at the end of the 2009 season, Kubiak would have been fired. In 2010, they would have hired Bill Cowher and he would have gone defense with the first pick: Ndamukong Suh, Eric Berry, Jason Pierre Paul(depdning how poorly they did the year before).

They still would have been looking for a starting QB and likely would have signed a vet. In 2011 they would have drafted Andy Dalton...
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Old 04-12-2013   #91
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Old 04-12-2013   #92
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.
Yes they would've been better

1. They would've had a chance to get a QB in the 20003-2004 draft that would've put his profession that paid him millions for 9 months worth of work 1st. Palmer/Eli Manning and Peppers, instead of Davey.

2. They wouldn't have been living the fantasy that Mario was what he was supposed to be.

It is what it is, but the decision to draft Davey set this org back 7-8 yrs. Hell, BoB was so in love with Davey, Gary had to lie to BoB to get his 1st HC job. I guess sometimes lying does pay. Not that I blame Gary, if I was in his shoes I would've told BoB what he wanted to hear.
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Old 04-12-2013   #93
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

man if we would of signed peppers instead of carr and then drafted like david garred in the 4th round man we would of deff made the playoffs within 2 years in the capers era
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Old 04-13-2013   #94
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Yes they would've been better

1. They would've had a chance to get a QB in the 20003-2004 draft that would've put his profession that paid him millions for 9 months worth of work 1st. Palmer/Eli Manning and Peppers, instead of Davey.

2. They wouldn't have been living the fantasy that Mario was what he was supposed to be.

It is what it is, but the decision to draft Davey set this org back 7-8 yrs. Hell, BoB was so in love with Davey, Gary had to lie to BoB to get his 1st HC job. I guess sometimes lying does pay. Not that I blame Gary, if I was in his shoes I would've told BoB what he wanted to hear.
So....you are saying that because we got Carr, the Texans will not be able to go QB in the 20003 draft?...that is if the world and pro football are still around.......LOL...Just kiding..I had to say something though...LOL
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Old 04-13-2013   #95
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Let's not forget that we spent a lot of resources on the D in 2011; the draft picks we made on offense in 2012 didn't make enough of an impact - Jones, Brooks, Posey, and Martin. If we had spent the resources on offense in 2011 instead, the offense would have been better in 2012, when we lost Winston, Brisiel, Dreesen, Jacoby; not to mention Leach/Vickers.
MSR.....

I think there are several people here who are afraid of what this O would look like if Gary was to get his hands on just a little more bonafide talent, some 1st day pedigree.

I mean if Kubiak ain't going nowhere when we suck (13 wins & he division in 2012)... he'll be in for life if we were to win a conference championship game.
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Old 04-13-2013   #96
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Carr had the potential to be a better QB than Schaub. But he doesn't have the work ethic or the brains to do it.
I don't even know if that was the case. I bet Carr would have been everything we wanted him to be if he had Kubiak from day 1. Someone who had a clue on how to protect him. Someone who could watch him & explain what the problem was & what can be done to help him out.

I'm probably way off, but I feel like David's coaches were telling him, "You're fine man.... we'll fix this." When they should have been saying, "Sure there were some mistakes up front, but you should.... blah, blah, blah."

I think Kubiak's frustration with David, was that he "acted" as if he never learned. During practice, in the film room, I'm sure David was smart enough to grasp the concepts & answer the questions. But on game day, when he was getting smaked around he turtled up.
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Old 04-20-2013   #97
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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So, this could be us?

Didn't read all of this, so it may be a repeat. This WAS us 2002-2006. The only difference being that Carr would never actually run into someone while attempting to assume the fetal position.
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Old 04-20-2013   #98
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

Maybe another repeat. Draft Questionnair II: David Carr
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Q: Because of that, do you ever wonder how your career might've changed if you were chosen by another, more established, team or a team that didn't have to start you immediately?



Carr: "When people would ask me in my first couple of years in the league, 'Would you rather start right away or watch the [starter] and learn from him?" I used to say, 'I'd rather start all the time.' Sitting here now, I would love to be on the field. But looking back at it, I think it would've been better off -- not only for me but for the team in Houston -- for me to sit there and watch a guy. The first NFL game I ever saw I was playing in, and it was a shock to the system and something I wasn't truly prepared for. We had a long road, and we battled for five years to get it right. But it was just a situation where we never put it together."
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Old 04-23-2013   #99
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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So, this could be us?

Correction...this WAS us....remember the Rosencopter anyone just to name one....



If I'm not mistaken.....weren't the Texans up a few TD's with only a few minutes to go when Rosencopter and other panty shlarting events occurred to cause the Texans to lose the game. Ah, the days when the Texans were a pure laughing stock....
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Old 04-23-2013   #100
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HTown2ATX View Post
Correction...this WAS us....remember the Rosencopter anyone just to name one....



If I'm not mistaken.....weren't the Texans up a few TD's with only a few minutes to go when Rosencopter and other panty shlarting events occurred to cause the Texans to lose the game. Ah, the days when the Texans were a pure laughing stock....
Up 17 points with 5 minutes to go.

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