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Old 04-09-2013   #41
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I think they invest a 3rd on an OT also.
Yup. Dont want a guard out of the draft. I want somebody with tackle feet. I feel like if worse comes to worse you've got a starting guard out of brooks, jones, mondek, or even Newton if need be. I dont think you can plug brooks or jones in at tackle. So gimme a tackle in the 3rd or 4th.
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Old 04-09-2013   #42
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

I just timed Allen on this play in fastenough.90. BTW, that's 1st lock CB Desmond Trufant (#6) in pursuit.

I like Allen, and if healthy would make a great pick @27. But, he's not healthy. This team is has a window and I don't think it needs to swing for the fence with high risk picks, be it injury or character concerns. That's why I would lean at this point to DeAndre Hopkins or Robert Woods at WR. They both have the talent and the production to project as a solid #2 WR, at least. And using scouting terminology, they're "clean" prospects. I think the Texans have to go "clean".
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Old 04-09-2013   #43
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
^^^^
This

Allen, slow injury prone= pass

I wouldn't have a problem drafting 2 WR's in rds 1-3. It's time to give Schaub the weapons he needs, so that we can find out if Schaub's the problem or the answer.
What other injuries has he had? One injury does not make a player injury prone. You are going to have to come with some facts to support that. Keenan turns 21 April 27th which is another plus. He uses his hands as well if not better than any other WR. Doesn't matter how fast you are (and I am a speed guy)if you cannot catch the rock. Also, he is very good at running his route then breaking out past the defender. He has the skills to be a #1.
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Old 04-09-2013   #44
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
What other injuries has he had? One injury does not make a player injury prone. You are going to have to come with some facts to support that. Keenan turns 21 April 27th which is another plus. He uses his hands as well if not better than any other WR. Doesn't matter how fast you are (and I am a speed guy)if you cannot catch the rock. Also, he is very good at running his route then breaking out past the defender. He has the skills to be a #1.
How long has his leg (foot) injury been lingering? A chronic foot injury that hasn't gone away for months now has to be concerning. If the guy has to run a good route to get separation how much does it effect a safety's play? Does it stretch the defense for other players? I gotta be honest, i'll defer to those who've seen him play because i've only read scouting reports, but I want a guy with speed to burn. I want a guy who forces a defensive coordinator to compromise. We have plenty of guys who challenge short and intermediate. If thats all Allen does...I think we need to look somewhere else.
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Old 04-09-2013   #45
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
He will be there #27 so will Texans select him?
I think this bumps him down to 2nd round.

This close to the draft and still unable to answer the bell -- I can't invest a 1st in such a fluid injury status.

More reason to trade down.
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Old 04-09-2013   #46
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
I'm ok with selecting a boom or bust pick because at some point Posey will be comming back. I guess I think of that as a fail safe.
See I'm thinking exactly the opposite. Posey sat out much of his last college season. Played little in his rookie year, then was injured. And now is looking at missing his 2nd pro season. If the Texans ever get anything out of Posey, that's the bonus. And that's why they need a sure thing in this draft.
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Old 04-09-2013   #47
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
How long has his leg (foot) injury been lingering? A chronic foot injury that hasn't gone away for months now has to be concerning. If the guy has to run a good route to get separation how much does it effect a safety's play? Does it stretch the defense for other players? I gotta be honest, i'll defer to those who've seen him play because i've only read scouting reports, but I want a guy with speed to burn. I want a guy who forces a defensive coordinator to compromise. We have plenty of guys who challenge short and intermediate. If thats all Allen does...I think we need to look somewhere else.
He's been hampered by a posterior cruciate ligament injury throughout the draft process, but doctors now describe Allen's left knee as fully healthy after he re-injured it in January. Trainers told Mayock that Allen only has 75 percent to 80 percent of his explosion, but said "that's what comes last" in the healing process. Allen recently told The Sacramento Bee that he's only about 85 percent back.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...ck-doesnt-care

I don't want to print entire article but no one seems to be posting what else Mayock said. Let's get it all on the table:
"Three months ago, I said -- if you watch this kid on tape -- if you like him, he's Anquan Boldin. If you don't like him, he's speed-deficient. So I don't really care what he runs in the 40. On tape, to me, he's a 4.55 guy all day long."

Mayock called Allen's 40 results "not a good time," but scouts and coaches told him they expect Allen to be faster down the road. What he gives you, according to Mayock, is "a big, powerful, wide receiver" who might go anywhere from No. 25 to No. 45 in the 2013 NFL Draft.

"I believe in his toughness and his hands," Mayock said, confirming that he would, indeed, "bang the table" for Allen (and in Mayock's universe, that's a compliment of the highest order).
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Old 04-09-2013   #48
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
I think some conferences are slower than others by far . A guy from the Big 12 tears it up , gets drafted high , and is ok at best . SEC and ACC guys seem to play faster .
There are individual talents everywhere.
How many teams does the SEC has?
The percentage may still be high, but they are not as far apart as one may think.

The Big 10, for example, has been producing a lot of draftable linemen.
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Old 04-09-2013   #49
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
There are individual talents everywhere.
How many teams does the SEC has?
The percentage may still be high, but they are not as far apart as one may think.

The Big 10, for example, has been producing a lot of draftable linemen.
I was thinking more of WR / CB types .
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Old 04-09-2013   #50
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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"Three months ago, I said -- if you watch this kid on tape -- if you like him, he's Anquan Boldin..."
I'm not knocking Allen (or Boldin). But Allen is not a similar type WR as Anquan Boldin. Not the Boldin of today or the Boldin of the 2003 draft. They're similar in that they both battled knee injuries during their respective draft periods. Boldin is much more physical, while Allen relies on quickness.

If I were going to compare a WR prospect to Allen, it would be former Seahawk Koren Robinson. Good size, but very quick with excellent run after catch ability. Unfortunately, drug issues and later a knee injury cut Robinson's career short. He could have been a Pro Bowl WR.
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Old 04-09-2013   #51
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by powda View Post
How long has his leg (foot) injury been lingering? A chronic foot injury that hasn't gone away for months now has to be concerning. If the guy has to run a good route to get separation how much does it effect a safety's play? Does it stretch the defense for other players? I gotta be honest, i'll defer to those who've seen him play because i've only read scouting reports, but I want a guy with speed to burn. I want a guy who forces a defensive coordinator to compromise. We have plenty of guys who challenge short and intermediate. If thats all Allen does...I think we need to look somewhere else.
Yep,

In the 2 games I've seen Allen, he's an underneath guy. I was hoping that they used him running the underneath stuff so that they could get the ball in his hands and not because he was speed deficient. After today my concerns have been validated. Dude can break tackles after the catch. But unless his speed improves he wil struggle in the pros.

Can somebody point me to a video where Allen runs a 9 route and blows by the CB/S?

He's a good WR, but doesn't stretch the field and the Texans need somebody that can strike fear into a defense. The WR doesn't have to be all-world, a T.Y. Hilton would suffice.

The guys I see that most closely resembles this type of WR are Hunter/Dobson/Goodwin/Nwachukwu. These guys could be had early and late.

If you want to give me Allen in the 2nd and Goodwin in the 4th I could get on board with that. Then you would have your slot guy (Allen) and your speed guy Goodwin to go along with AJ. These are the types of weapons that Schaub has been lacking.
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Old 04-09-2013   #52
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
See I'm thinking exactly the opposite. Posey sat out much of his last college season. Played little in his rookie year, then was injured. And now is looking at missing his 2nd pro season. If the Texans ever get anything out of Posey, that's the bonus. And that's why they need a sure thing in this draft.
I dont expect any rookie wr to make an instant impact despite the recent success of jones & green. I feel about the time somone like allen will have given us an indication of his boom or bust potential, Posey will be back. The natural rookie integration period is going to be there regardless...so aim high. I was impressed with Posey and think he'll be ir'd till late season when he's eligible to come back. Jmo.

If we had someone like Torey Smith here i'd love Allen. We don't.


Badboy, damn good post.
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Old 04-09-2013   #53
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Yep,

In the 2 games I've seen Allen, he's an underneath guy. I was hoping that they used him running the underneath stuff so that they could get the ball in his hands and not because he was speed deficient. After today my concerns have been validated. Dude can break tackles after the catch. But unless his speed improves he wil struggle in the pros.

Can somebody point me to a video where Allen runs a 9 route and blows by the CB/S?

He's a good WR, but doesn't stretch the field and the Texans need somebody that can strike fear into a defense. The WR doesn't have to be all-world, a T.Y. Hilton would suffice.

The guys I see that most closely resembles this type of WR are Hunter/Dobson/Goodwin/Nwachukwu. These guys could be had early and late.

If you want to give me Allen in the 2nd and Goodwin in the 4th I could get on board with that. Then you would have your slot guy (Allen) and your speed guy Goodwin to go along with AJ. These are the types of weapons that Schaub has been lacking.
What you get with Allen is a WR that runs with the DB, breaks loose keeping his body between the football and defender, catches it almost all the time and averages 12 yards. If you want a burner with deep stretch go with Terrence Williams. If you want a WR that is super solid in the areas Schaub like to throw go with Allen. If you want a WR that does it all, Da'Rick Rogers.
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Old 04-09-2013   #54
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
What you get with Allen is a WR that runs with the DB, breaks loose keeping his body between the football and defender, catches it almost all the time and averages 12 yards. If you want a burner with deep stretch go with Terrence Williams. If you want a WR that is super solid in the areas Schaub like to throw go with Allen. If you want a WR that does it all, Da'Rick Rogers.
Agreed,

I hope Rodgers is there in the 2nd and BoB lets Rick/Gary draft him. If Rodgers is drafted I still want a speed guy in the later rds.
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Old 04-10-2013   #55
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
I think this bumps him down to 2nd round.

This close to the draft and still unable to answer the bell -- I can't invest a 1st in such a fluid injury status.

More reason to trade down.
He has a first/second round grade. Guess what this means is a team needing WR help, like the Texans, would have to consider him a first round talent, while a team like the Giants would probably pass onto the second round being that WR is not that big of need for them.

As a would be scout, I would say his skill set, size & athletic ability matches up with what's expected of a first round WR talent. Unfortunate for him he got injured going into the biggest financial year of his life. I've watched a lot of tape of Keenan & he is often exposed because he was constantly targeted & Cal did not spread the ball around typical Tedford style.

Bottom line when he is fully recovered & that knee is stronger than ever it will be right around pre-season so he will get plenty of reps, fill in for Posey/Walter & most defiantly have an impact even early on. He is a tremendous talent & excellent character kid for Andre Johnson to mold.
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Old 04-10-2013   #56
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I just timed Allen on this play in fastenough.90. BTW, that's 1st lock CB Desmond Trufant (#6) in pursuit.

I like Allen, and if healthy would make a great pick @27. But, he's not healthy. This team is has a window and I don't think it needs to swing for the fence with high risk picks, be it injury or character concerns. That's why I would lean at this point to DeAndre Hopkins or Robert Woods at WR. They both have the talent and the production to project as a solid #2 WR, at least. And using scouting terminology, they're "clean" prospects. I think the Texans have to go "clean".
I agree. As a ND fan it pains me to say this, but Woods would be a great choice. He's coming off a down year numbers wise, due to an injury, the emergence of Lee and some spotty QB play, but he has a LOT of talent and would be an awesome #2 WR. I'd really love it if we could trade down and pick up an extra 3rd and grab Woods in the process.
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Old 04-10-2013   #57
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

Do NFL teams get access to a prospects injury/medical records ie: X-rays and/or an MRI so that the teams physicians can review and give the team a fully informed opinion or do teams have to rely exclusively on what a prospect and/or his agent tells them?
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Old 04-10-2013   #58
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Do NFL teams get access to a prospects injury/medical records ie: X-rays and/or an MRI so that the teams physicians can review and give the team a fully informed opinion or do teams have to rely exclusively on what a prospect and/or his agent tells them?
I would bet they do, I believe I've heard of teams conducting their own tests, x-rays, MRIs ect.. It would be tough to commit big $$$ to a player without knowing their medical history
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Old 04-10-2013   #59
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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If I were going to compare a WR prospect to Allen, it would be former Seahawk Koren Robinson. Good size, but very quick with excellent run after catch ability.
NFL COMPARISON Jordy Nelson
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profil...len?id=2540154
So if we are making comparisons of Draft prospects to active NFL players, NFL.Com compares Allen to Jordy Nelson, FWIW ?
And sorry, gotta keep beating the drum for Robert Woods if you want a player with real
sprinter-track speed who's also a legit WR, because he's the only one who really qualifies IMO other than Cordarrelle Patterson whom will be selected very early in the Draft well before the Texans choice.
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Old 04-10-2013   #60
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Default Re: Keenan Allen-WR

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Do NFL teams get access to a prospects injury/medical records ie: X-rays and/or an MRI so that the teams physicians can review and give the team a fully informed opinion or do teams have to rely exclusively on what a prospect and/or his agent tells them?
That's one of the purposes of the Combine.

They give all these guys physicals and if they have a history of injuries, they get X Rays and MRIs to evaluate their current status. This information is released to all the teams.

When prospects make visits to particular teams, those teams can have their own doctors take a look.
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