Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2013   #81
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
There are only two components in passing yardage: Air Yard and Yard After Catch.

If you go to Sportingcharts.com, put everything since 2007 into a spread sheet, qualify the QBs (let's say a minimum of 1,500 pass attempts over those six years), Schaub is easily somewhere between top 5-10 in Air Yard per Attempt.
One more time...

That has nothing to do with what I said.

One reason that you can't look at the per is because since 2007 Schaub has played in a full 16 games only 3 times. If you just compare his own stats from year to year you can see that his YPA averages are generally higher in seasons that he didn't finish. There is a big difference between throwing about 300 to throwing about 600 passes.

That's why I look year to year...And from year to year Schaub has benefited greatly from YAC. Not moreso than most of the league in any given year, but over the time span of about '08 to present Schaub has had top ten guys in YAC each year....sometimes more than one in a given season...

You can't average that stat out because one big year could skew your entire average for the time span. Whereas if you look at in on a year to year basis you can see who most often benefits from YAC...And Schaub has clearly benefited from it a great deal...
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #82
76Texan
Hall of Fame
 
76Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,033
Rep Power: 57325 76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected76Texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

If you want to talk straight YAC in full year only, you can do that as well.
Schaub didn't benefit from that as much as some other QBs like Brady, Stafford, and perhaps Brees, too.

No matter how you slice it, Brady is still the king of YaC benificiary.

I still don't see how you can disregard numbers from a starting QB that play 10-11 games in certain year. The fact that a QB got injured and wasn't able to finish a year has no bearing on whether he benefits from YAC or that his AY per attempt is meaningless.

You can say that with back-up QBs, or those who played something like less than half the year, I would agree to that.
76Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #83
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
If you want to talk straight YAC in full year only, you can do that as well.
Schaub didn't benefit from that as much as some other QBs like Brady, Stafford, and perhaps Brees, too.

No matter how you slice it, Brady is still the king of YaC benificiary.
I don't know what else to say but you are incorrect.

http://community.advancednflstats.co...ter-catch.html

Drew Brees by far benefits the most from YAC as a whole.

But what you can also see is that even if you give Schaub the difference in their YAC so that it was equal, he's still not passing for that many yards.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #84
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,456
Rep Power: 53447 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I don't know what else to say but you are incorrect.

http://community.advancednflstats.co...ter-catch.html

Drew Brees by far benefits the most from YAC as a whole.

But what you can also see is that even if you give Schaub the difference in their YAC so that it was equal, he's still not passing for that many yards.


Well a couple post up you say 08-current, then post a link to 06-10 its hard to argue for or against a moving target. Maybe on your 06-10 list you should work the math of yac as a % of yards because Matt is at 44.9% Drew is at 46.8 Favre 50.66 Rivers 46.36 Manning 40.1 McNabb 48.12 Brady 46.46 Romo 43.8 Eli 41.1 Big Ben 41.49 Jason Campbell 51 Palmer 41.1


also per that link which I find interesting

Quote:
My formula for "Normalized, Optimized, Air Yards Per Dropback" is:

NOAY/DB = (Passing Yards - Sack Yards - YAC - 32*INT)/(Attempts + Sacks) + 3.9

The 32 is in there because that preserves the ratio of INT and yardage Brian used in his passer formula. The 3.9 is in there because it gives the average 2010 QB a NOAY/DB of roughly 6.2, which is the average yards per attempt this year.

Here is the table of those same 39 players again, this time sorted by NOAY/DB, with their traditional Y/A numbers also listed for comparison:


Player NOAY/DB Y/A



Peyton Manning 7.39 7.54
Tom Brady 7.07 7.7
Matt Ryan 7.01 6.9
Tony Romo 6.98 8.04
Aaron Rodgers 6.95 7.98
Philip Rivers 6.95 8.04
Jeff Garcia 6.91 7.25
Matt Schaub 6.89 7.86
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #85
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
Well a couple post up you say 08-current, then post a link to 06-10 its hard to argue for or against a moving target. Maybe on your 06-10 list you should work the math of yac as a % of yards because Matt is at 44.9% Drew is at 46.8 Favre 50.66 Rivers 46.36 Manning 40.1 McNabb 48.12 Brady 46.46 Romo 43.8 Eli 41.1 Big Ben 41.49 Jason Campbell 51 Palmer 41.1
Try to pay attention. I posted that link to show some kind of total for YAC over a time period.

These are not regular stats, so there aren't many sites where you can find that info.

As far as the percentages, I already posted a site which gives last years percentages.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #86
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,456
Rep Power: 53447 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Try to pay attention. I posted that link to show some kind of total for YAC over a time period.

These are not regular stats, so there aren't many sites where you can find that info.

As far as the percentages, I already posted a site which gives last years percentages.


I did pay attention and your stats/time periods moved


as for your link %yac Matt is 43% 21st out of 40

median is 43.2 so more people had a higer % of yac than matt did. Most of his yards came in the air
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #87
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012Champs View Post
I did pay attention and your stats/time periods moved


as for your link %yac Matt is 43% 21st out of 40
No you didn't pay attention. No stats or time period moved. The second link I posted was just from a shorter time period, not moved.

And you sound ridiculous and this is my point about you not paying attention. No one said Schaub sucked or that he would be at the bottom.

This conversation started with PN when he talked about Schaubs league leading passing yards in 2009. In 2009 not only did Schaub throw the ball more than anyone else, but he also was not at the top of any other category except Total Yards.

Pay attention. That doesn't mean he sucks or was not good, but what it means is that league leading yardage he put up was the result of other things...Mainly his attempts and the help he had with YAC...

Quote:
median is 43.2 so more people had a higer % of yac than matt did. Most of his yards came in the air
Which really isn't relevant since everyone is throwing a different amount of passes, but you asked for it so I told you where it was. |But if you remove guys with less than 250 attempts he's closer to the bottom than the top...
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #88
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 43,674
Rep Power: 224191 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to infantrycak
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
This conversation started with PN when he talked about Schaubs league leading passing yards in 2009. In 2009 not only did Schaub throw the ball more than anyone else, but he also was not at the top of any other category except Total Yards.

Pay attention. That doesn't mean he sucks or was not good, but what it means is that league leading yardage he put up was the result of other things...Mainly his attempts and the help he had with YAC...
That is just false logic. You don't have to lead across the board. He was solid across the board. He was 4th on completion %, he was 7th on QB rating, 5th on ypa.

This is in order of attempts. If you give Manning an equal number of attempts he is still over 200 yards shy of Schaub. Brady would be 280 yds back. Cutler 1000 yds back. Romo 120 yds back. Aaron Rodgers 120 yds back.

Your YAC argument cracks me up since so many people claim we don't get YAC either because our receivers suck or because Schaub doesn't hit them correctly. Y'all need to huddle up and figure out if Schaub is the YAC king or the YAC killer.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #89
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,456
Rep Power: 53447 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
No you didn't pay attention. No stats or time period moved. The second link I posted was just from a shorter time period, not moved.

And you sound ridiculous and this is my point about you not paying attention. No one said Schaub sucked or that he would be at the bottom.

This conversation started with PN when he talked about Schaubs league leading passing yards in 2009. In 2009 not only did Schaub throw the ball more than anyone else, but he also was not at the top of any other category except Total Yards.

Pay attention. That doesn't mean he sucks or was not good, but what it means is that league leading yardage he put up was the result of other things...Mainly his attempts and the help he had with YAC...



Which really isn't relevant since everyone is throwing a different amount of passes, but you asked for it so I told you where it was. |But if you remove guys with less than 250 attempts he's closer to the bottom than the top...

You were talking about 08-current then posted 06-10 stats 8 guys had 250 attempts or less in your link and 5/8 had a higher % but 3 didn't so that doesn't really push him further down the list
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013   #90
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,278
Rep Power: 150172 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013   #91
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 6,456
Rep Power: 53447 2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected2012Champs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
That is just false logic. You don't have to lead across the board. He was solid across the board. He was 4th on completion %, he was 7th on QB rating, 5th on ypa.

This is in order of attempts. If you give Manning an equal number of attempts he is still over 200 yards shy of Schaub. Brady would be 280 yds back. Cutler 1000 yds back. Romo 120 yds back. Aaron Rodgers 120 yds back.

Your YAC argument cracks me up since so many people claim we don't get YAC either because our receivers suck or because Schaub doesn't hit them correctly. Y'all need to huddle up and figure out if Schaub is the YAC king or the YAC killer.


Either I missed your last paragraph yesterday or you added after I left the thread but that's a damn good point I hadn't thought of
2012Champs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013   #92
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,278
Rep Power: 150172 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post

Your YAC argument cracks me up since so many people claim we don't get YAC either because our receivers suck or because Schaub doesn't hit them correctly. Y'all need to huddle up and figure out if Schaub is the YAC king or the YAC killer.
Uh.... yeah, I'll have to do some more figuring on that one.


But I'll come up with something.

__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger