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Old 04-09-2013   #81
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
The Cowgirls are a bad example,

The Pats, Broncos, Saints, 49ers, Falcons etc... are examples of teams that manage their caps properly and are able to add in FA/Draft.

BoB adds top tier FA's 1 yr and all of the sudden the Texans are in the playoffs and supposedly SB contenders. Coincedence? The teams mentioned above do this every yr.
The Broncos benefited from the Cutler trade, and that was due to the previous regime. But they had to suck for awhile to get here.
The Saints are another bad example.
The Niners endures 8 seasons before they started winning again in 2011.

The Falcons bridesmaid's status isn't going to change anytime soon, some of their fans believe and they want to fire Matty, LOL.
At the moment, they are pretty tight with their cap; we'll see what they do to rework Matt Ryan's contract.

Last edited by 76Texan; 04-09-2013 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 04-09-2013   #82
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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The Cowgirls are a bad example,

The Pats, Broncos, Saints, 49ers, Falcons etc... are examples of teams that manage their caps properly and are able to add in FA/Draft.

BoB adds top tier FA's 1 yr and all of the sudden the Texans are in the playoffs and supposedly SB contenders. Coincedence? The teams mentioned above do this every yr.
Hmmmm... since Kubiak left the Broncos, they have made the playoffs only twice; once with an 8-8 record (riding Tebowmania) and last year with Peyton at the helm. ...where they were one and done, at home.

The NIners have only made the playoffs twice since 2006. It won't be long before they start losing key pieces they can't afford to hold onto.

Neither the Pats nor the Saints make huge, splashy free agency moves but rather chose to fill the holes left by the veterans they can no longer afford to hold onto.

It is the way of the modern day NFL. The salary cap is restrictive and keeps teams from stockpiling vets. ...well, expensive vets anyway.
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Old 04-09-2013   #83
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

Bottom line is the good teams add to their rosters evey yr in FA

See, Ravens Jacoby/Pollard/Leach.

The Texans just try to hold water every yr in FA. (Replace Quin with Reed and lose everybody else.) That's bad cap management. But go on with the Texans are the greatest managed team in the NFL.

BTW,They are the best marketed team in the NFL. The Texans are a marketing team with a football division.

This is why I dont want the county to give BoB/Jamey what they want (Tearing down the Astrodome)

They've already taken enough from the city of Houston/Harris county without really producing squat on the field. (2 wildcard wins over the Bungles = LOL) They have destroyed Houstons national treasure (Astrodome) Instead of sprucing the old girl up and making her a tourist attraction that Houston is so badly lacking. They did this shortsightedly all in the name of $$$$.

For this reason I hope Harris County lets the Dome rot to the ground before they give in to BoB/Jamey and the henchmen's demands.

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Old 04-09-2013   #84
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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BoB adds top tier FA's 1 yr and all of the sudden the Texans are in the playoffs and supposedly SB contenders. Coincedence? The teams mentioned above do this every yr.
Again, it's perception. Jonathan Joseph was no more a top tier FA than Anthony Weaver or Antonio Smith. Both were considered the second best DE in their FA class. Wade Smith was probably the third best guard available at the time.

Jonathan Joseph was the second rated CB in his FA class, & had Ike Taylor not resigned with the Steelers, probably third.

Jonathan Joseph was not any more a proven commodity than Kevin Walter when we got him.
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Old 04-09-2013   #85
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Bottom line is the good teams add to their rosters evey yr in FA

See, Ravens Jacoby/Pollard/Leach.
Didn't we add two of those three to this team as FAs before teh ravens did?
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Old 04-09-2013   #86
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Again, it's perception. Jonathan Joseph was no more a top tier FA than Anthony Weaver or Antonio Smith. Both were considered the second best DE in their FA class. Wade Smith was probably the third best guard available at the time.

Jonathan Joseph was the second rated CB in his FA class, & had Ike Taylor not resigned with the Steelers, probably third.

Jonathan Joseph was not any more a proven commodity than Kevin Walter when we got him.
I was with you until the bolded.

Johnathon Joseph was a highly rated FA. Like you said, 2nd or 3rd in his FA class but it was a good year for FA corners.

He was a 1st round pick. He was a 5 year starter.

Kevin Walter was a 7th round pick who was cut by the team that picked him (Giants) and picked up by another team (Bengals). He'd had 3 uneventful seasons with the Bengals where he'd only had 19 catches in his BEST year. THe guy was a fringe guy at best.

They were not comparable as FA pickups. JJoe was a much more proven commodity than Walter.
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Old 04-09-2013   #87
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

Winston is seeking three to four million a year, and no one's biting.

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Its frustrating, because Ive never really been in this situation, Winston told SiriusXMSports.

Winston, 29, said the Chargers and he discussed money, but things kind of fell through.

The tackle was set to make $4.9 million in base salary before the Chiefs released him. He said hes seeking $3 million to $4 million this year and isnt asking for a long-term deal.

I try to look at myself fairly," Winston said. "I dont ever want to be one of those guys that looks at themselves and thinks they hung the moon.

I still feel like Im still playing at a pretty high level, and I feel I can contribute to a team.

I dont think Im asking for pie in the sky numbers," Winston said. "Middle of the road is fine. But, its also frustrating from the sense of, there's still a lot of teams with a lot of money to spend, but it doesnt seem like anyone wants to spend it."
Link.

Maybe he's not considering that teams are still adjusting to the new cap, or that he's perceived as a zone blocker whose real value doesn't match his expectations. If the needs and limitations of all the teams are changing, then he needs to get a new agent who is going to respect those changes.
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Old 04-09-2013   #88
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Winston is seeking three to four million a year, and no one's biting.



Link.

Maybe he's not considering that teams are still adjusting to the new cap, or that he's perceived as a zone blocker whose real value doesn't match his expectations. If the needs and limitations of all the teams are changing, then he needs to get a new agent who is going to respect those changes.
Eric being worth something does not mean you necessarily get it. In real estate it is now a seller's market. In NFL it is a buyers market. Anyway, thought it is not about the money if you are an athlete?
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Old 04-09-2013   #89
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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I was with you until the bolded.

Johnathon Joseph was a highly rated FA. Like you said, 2nd or 3rd in his FA class but it was a good year for FA corners.

He was a 1st round pick. He was a 5 year starter.

Kevin Walter was a 7th round pick who was cut by the team that picked him (Giants) and picked up by another team (Bengals). He'd had 3 uneventful seasons with the Bengals where he'd only had 19 catches in his BEST year. THe guy was a fringe guy at best.

They were not comparable as FA pickups. JJoe was a much more proven commodity than Walter.
Yep.

Remember when we signed him? One of the Bengals' coordinators (can't remember which) was FURIOUS. And was open about it. And the fans were livid for the owner being cheap and letting Jonathan Joseph go.

And the crime is: Jonathan never wanted to leave Cincy! He was settled there with his family and they didn't want to re-locate. Had the bengals even made him a decent offer, he likely would have taken it.

Oh well. Our gain.
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Old 04-09-2013   #90
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Again, it's perception. Jonathan Joseph was no more a top tier FA than Anthony Weaver or Antonio Smith. Both were considered the second best DE in their FA class. Wade Smith was probably the third best guard available at the time.

Jonathan Joseph was the second rated CB in his FA class, & had Ike Taylor not resigned with the Steelers, probably third.

Jonathan Joseph was not any more a proven commodity than Kevin Walter when we got him.
I don't think I agree with that...

JJo had been around for a while and was still kind of young, but considered one of the top players at his position in the whole league. Not just in the free agent class.

Antonio Smith and Weaver being considered among the best in the free agent class is not relevant. Just means that the free agent class wasn't as strong at those positions in those years.

JJo was only considered the second best corner in his FA class because Aso was considered the #1 or #2 corner in the entire league.

Jjo by far had been the biggest, baddest free agent we had signed and it wasn't close.
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Old 04-09-2013   #91
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Again, it's perception. Jonathan Joseph was no more a top tier FA than Anthony Weaver or Antonio Smith. Both were considered the second best DE in their FA class. Wade Smith was probably the third best guard available at the time.

Jonathan Joseph was the second rated CB in his FA class, & had Ike Taylor not resigned with the Steelers, probably third.

Jonathan Joseph was not any more a proven commodity than Kevin Walter when we got him.
First of all, Anthony Weaver was no where near the top 3 DEs in the 2006 free agency class. ND Kalu was signed that year too, and even he was rated higher than Weaver. The Texans overpaid for Weaver for sure, but that doesn't make him the second best DE of that class. There were at least a half dozen other guys ahead of him, including Mathis, Kampman and Abraham.

Antonio Smith was a guy who got paid by a desperate team due to his performance during Arizona's Super Bowl run. He was not in the top 3 DEs of that class, which included Julius Peppers, Chris Canty and Terrell Suggs (who moved to OLB). He might have been 4-6 depending on the rankings you use, but even then he wasn't a hot commodity on the market. He's worked out well since that deal was signed, but let's not rewrite history on this.

Wade Smith in 2010 was a desperation move. We lost Chester Pitts to injury that year and had a huge hole at LG, so we overpaid Wade to keep him from going to Arizona. He was no where near the top 5 guards that year, which included guys like Logan Mankins, Harvey Dahl, Jahri Evans and Shaun Andrews. Wade Smith was/is a journeyman, and a middling prospect at guard.

JJo was certainly a top 5 CB of the free agency class of 2011. Aso was obviously the #1 guy, Cromartie and Grimes were probably the next two best, and then JJo would slot in at #4, with Champ Bailey close behind. At the time, that was pretty reasonable ranking, but you could argue JJo was a better prospect over Cromartie due to character concerns on Antonio. Brandon Carr, Chris Carr, Josh Wilson and Carlos Rodgers would be the CBs behind those guys, and that filled out what was a great CB free agency class.

JJo was definitely the highest rated free agent acquisition that the Texans have made in their brief history, and it was the right choice. We nearly had Eric Weddle to go with him, but SD ponied up more money and kept him from us. Instead we signed D Manning for about 3m AAV less, and wound up with a great overhaul of the secondary.
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Old 04-09-2013   #92
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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JJo was definitely the highest rated free agent acquisition that the Texans have made in their brief history, and it was the right choice.
I'm not against, or down on the Jjo signing at all & we can debate how these FAs were ranked all day (personally, I exclude the guys who did not change teams, like Ike Taylor), but the point is the same.

Jjo was not the #1 guy.

We spent money before to make sure we got our guy.

Most of our "big" FA signings were young players with potential & Jjo fit that bill as he was not even considered the top CB on his team (they might have undervalued him & over valued Leon Hall, but the point is he was not the guy we made him here, a bonafide #1 pro bowl CB).

So it is wrong (& this is truly my point) to say that the one year the Texans went out & signed a big time FA we made it to the play offs. They were probably more right about Jjo than they were about Weaver & Antonio, but it wasn't for lack of trying.
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Old 04-10-2013   #93
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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I don't think I agree with that...

JJo had been around for a while and was still kind of young, but considered one of the top players at his position in the whole league. Not just in the free agent class.

Antonio Smith and Weaver being considered among the best in the free agent class is not relevant. Just means that the free agent class wasn't as strong at those positions in those years.

JJo was only considered the second best corner in his FA class because Aso was considered the #1 or #2 corner in the entire league.

Jjo by far had been the biggest, baddest free agent we had signed and it wasn't close.
But you can only go after FAs in their given year. The Texans have typically tried to improve the team rather than save money like the Bungels. The Texans went after Smith and Weaver who were top players at position. They brought in Orlando Pace(best LT available) and tried to sign him, but he wasn't interested. They brought in Bolden(best CB available), but he went back to NE. They brought in Green who was the best RB available and got him. This year they upgraded the punter position by getting Lechler and the FB position by getting Jones.
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Old 04-10-2013   #94
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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But you can only go after FAs in their given year.
You don't have to go after anybody. You can always just not overpay mediocre guys...

That's always an option...
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Old 04-10-2013   #95
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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You don't have to go after anybody. You can always just not overpay mediocre guys...

That's always an option...
Just trying to qualify your position Rey. Did the Texans overpay Ed Reed who's not the same player he was at a younger age? Do you see this as "overpay mediocre guys"?
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Old 04-10-2013   #96
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Just trying to qualify your position Rey. Did the Texans overpay Ed Reed who's not the same player he was at a younger age? Do you see this as "overpay mediocre guys"?
I don't think Reed is mediocre so, no. And Weaver was not mediocre...He was just not very good.

Really there's no comparison.

You're talking about one of the greatest to ever play the position vs. Anthony Weaver.

But my feelings don't have anything to do with what the Texans actually do. If Reed is a bust then yes, they will have poorly spent their money. My opinion on that matter won't change that if it becomes fact.
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Old 04-29-2013   #97
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

Eric Winston visited the Titans today per Adam Schefter....
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Old 04-30-2013   #98
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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Eric Winston visited the Titans today per Adam Schefter....
I actually saw him at the Nashville airport yesterday; he was on our same flight back to Houston. Didn't talk any football, but he was nice enough for a hello and a handshake.
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Old 04-30-2013   #99
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

See this Oline strategy by the Titans puzzles me ? They spend tons & tons of money in FA for one guard, then use their 10th overall first round pick in the Draft on the other guard, and then look sift thru the FA dregs for an OT ?
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Old 04-30-2013   #100
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Default Re: Eric Winston released by Chiefs

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See this Oline strategy by the Titans puzzles me ? They spend tons & tons of money in FA for one guard, then use their 10th overall first round pick in the Draft on the other guard, and then look sift thru the FA dregs for an OT ?
That, and their defense will continue to suck. It's almost like they are tanking to get a QB, ala the Suck for Luck sweepstakes. I think we all know Locker is at best an average NFL starter.

Speaking of which, we need to come up with a catchy phrase for the teams like the Jags, Raiders and Titans who will be fighting for the top prospects next year.

Top 5 guys I see are:
Jadeveon Clowney
Tajh Boyd
Teddy Bridgewater
Marquis Lee
Johnny Manziel


Sabo-Tajh
Tank for Teddy
Lose for Lee
Muff for Manziel
Downey for Clowney
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