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Old 04-08-2013   #61
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

Carr was a career killer if you played OL or coached him (HC, OC). He was an automatic payday if you were a competent RB because you would get a mountain of dump-off yards and all the touches he could manage to audible into.

The smart thing to do was to avoid rolling the dice on a rookie QB until the teams foundation was built and the Texans said that they were going to build that way even as they picked the rookie QB first overall. A lot of people were glad to get Carr (myself among them) but a lot of us also pointed out that it flew in the face of everything that McNair, Casserly, and Capers said they were going to do. I couldn't believe they took Carr over Peppers at the time. Right up until the opener against Dallas I was worried that we'd just made the 1999 Browns mistake all over again. then we won that game and the Kool Aid was awesome. A week later they must have mixed it wrong or something because San Diego drove home the point that yes, we had just made the exact same stupid mistake that Cleveland had.

It makes absolutely no difference what Carr would have been or how bad he really was. It doesn't matter at all. He was never going to be anything here. Success was never an option because even if he'd been John Elway and Troy Aikman combined in a cyborg body it's a team sport and the Texans were complete **** from day one until Kubiak got here and started making changes.
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Old 04-08-2013   #62
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

Carr had it all backwards from the beginning............Last one on the field.............First one off the field.
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Old 04-08-2013   #63
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Carr had it all backwards from the beginning............Last one on the field.............First one off the field.
The article linked said he studied more than anyone else on the team.
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Old 04-08-2013   #64
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
The article linked said he studied more than anyone else on the team.
It's an anonymous blog. Carr himself has admitted that isn't close to true on top of numerous reports from other players.
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Old 04-08-2013   #65
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
The article linked said he studied more than anyone else on the team.


I was one that wanted to give Carr the benefit of the doubt under first year head coach Gary Kubiak. It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr.

At that point it was disgustingly apparent that Carr was all about his family (not there's anything wrong with that) but football was an afterthought to him.

Thus, HWSNBM, or various versions of such a scorned player around here should be named... Thanks for nothing!!!!

Whether a once Carr fan or not, how much does it piss you off that he has a Super Bowl ring???

Me?

Not so cool with it.......... Just sayin'!!
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Old 04-08-2013   #66
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post


I was one that wanted to give Carr the benefit of the doubt under first year head coach Gary Kubiak. It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr.

At that point it was disgustingly apparent that Carr was all about his family (not there's anything wrong with that) but football was an afterthought to him.

Thus, HWSNBM, or various versions of such a scorned player around here should be named... Thanks for nothing!!!!

Whether a once Carr fan or not, how much does it piss you off that he has a Super Bowl ring???

Me?

Not so cool with it.......... Just sayin'!!
The one reason that doesn't bother me is that players who ride the pine and carry a clip board all year know the difference between earning a ring as a real contributor and getting one for "perfect attendance". Carr was taken first overall so I'm sure he enjoyed watching the season from the sidelines and it's a nice memento but he can't possibly believe that he's met any expectations just because of that.

I thought when he went to San Francisco and then didn't push Alex Smith even remotely that was when he'd permanently settled into backup mode. He's just a guy taking up a roster spot now.
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Old 04-08-2013   #67
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

who were the Vet QB in 2001 and 2002 in F/A that we could of got ..
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Old 04-08-2013   #68
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Norg View Post
who were the Vet QB in 2001 and 2002 in F/A that we could of got ..
Link

There is this thing out there called google. Try 2002 nfl free agent QB. As with your spelling - make an effort.
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Old 04-09-2013   #69
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
So, this could be us?
It already was, "WAS" being the glorious keyword.... past tense.



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Old 04-09-2013   #70
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
The smart thing to do was to avoid rolling the dice on a rookie QB until the teams foundation was built and the Texans said that they were going to build that way even as they picked the rookie QB first overall. A lot of people were glad to get Carr (myself among them) but a lot of us also pointed out that it flew in the face of everything that McNair, Casserly, and Capers said they were going to do. I couldn't believe they took Carr over Peppers at the time.
if this article is to be believed, Casserly should have followed is initial mindset...

Quote:
The expansion club was preparing for its first season of play, and a successful draft was pivotal to the the franchise’s fortunes. Initially, David had not been at the top of Houston’s talent list. GM Charlie Casserly anticipated taking either John Henderson of Tennessee or Julius Peppers of North Carolina with the first pick. But when coach Dom Capers and offensive coordinator Chris Palmer suggested another option—finding a young quarterback to develop—the Texans reassessed their strategy. After working David out and talking with him, Houston realized he was too good to pass up. Though there were some concerns about his throwing mechanics, Palmer assured the rest of the front office that David was physically sound and very coachable.
yeah... if only Casserly had stuck to his guns. A dynamite pass rusher like Peppers coupled with a pretty solid defensive back end... sigh, the possibilities....

That also says something else. From the very beginning around here, the coaches have had a stronger say regarding draft picks than the GM.
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Old 04-09-2013   #71
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
. I couldn't believe they took Carr over Peppers at the time.
In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.
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Old 04-09-2013   #72
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.
I think it is reasonable to believe that we would have been better off selecting Peppers.

We spent the first four years trying to improve the offensive line. The whole offense had issues, the defense had issues, but for the most part, the OL got more attention than it should have because we never wanted to admit the problem, or at least a big part of the problem, was the guy behind the OL.

He made the OL look worse than they were. He made the receivers look worse than they were. He made the TEs, RBs look worse than they were. & the defense can only do so much when the offense doesn't do it's part.

Not blaming everything on Carr, moreso the people who made the decision to stick with him for so long. Carr had his bright spots. I thoroughly enjoyed watching him play the game the first two years. It was mid-way through year three that I started feeling like we were treading water & losing ground.

I do not have that feeling about Schaub. From my seat, high above Reliant, when Carr played I could see open receivers on every play even though he would check it down. I haven't seen it often with Schaub. & when I did see it, it was difficult to tell if the open receiver was open before Schaub decided to check it down, or chunk it.

Right now, my belief is that if Schaub checked it down, it was the best decision he could have made with the information he had at the time. In fact, Schuab's criticism as of late, was that he wasn't seeing the open guy underneath & taking chances on the deeper routes. Again, not something I've seen throughout his career, forcing the ball.

It leads me to believe the "pressure" to win was something he struggled with & I believe the experience of "being there, done that" is going to help him & our team in the future.
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Old 04-09-2013   #73
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
In hindsight .... do you really believe they would have fared better with Peppers over Carr ?

To be quite honest , I beileve they would have been nobetter or worse .... Peppers is a great player but he wouldnt have won them games alone ... sure it may have changed draft plans past tense , but... I dont thin it would have made an expansion team any better during the life of their respective contracts.


They had to build talent and depth at other positions to be competetive.
Peppers produced right out of the gate and here in Houston he would have been lining up in a genuinely good defense from day one. Gary Brown and Seth Payne were disruptive and our linebackers were more than capable. Glenn and Coleman could cover and did. The defense finished 16th I think and that was while the offense was hanging them out to dry constantly. Smarter play from Tony Banks who the offense always settled down and performed for (to the extent that they were capable of performing) I think would have made us more competitive and netted at least two more wins in year one. I'm not saying we come out and go 8-8 or anything. I'm just saying we win 6 games our first year instead of 4 and look better and more competitive while doing it.

But as I said, in the big picture is that worth not getting the best player we've ever had in Andre Johnson? Not really.
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Old 04-09-2013   #74
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

I wanted Peppers at the time, but I wasn't devastated with Carr.

I thought Peppers was by far the better player though and even today I think we'd have been better off with Peppers.
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Old 04-09-2013   #75
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

I was surprised that Capers - a defensive guy - let the offensive "braintrust" talk him out of drafting a stud/weapon like that to add to his defense.
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Old 04-09-2013   #76
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I guess Palmer's job is to go around the NFL killing QBs' career.
Except when he helped Eli get his first Super Bowl ring (and SB MVP!) as his QB coach.

yeah, real QB killer there, all that success is KILLER!!
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Old 04-10-2013   #77
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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
...It was pretty clear to me that Kubiak - after about 6 games or so, had no faith, none whatsoever in Carr...
I've heard Kubiak stopped yelling at him in practice around then because it was a waste of breath.


Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.
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Old 04-10-2013   #78
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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I've heard Kubiak stopped yelling at him in practice around then because it was a waste of breath.


Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.
I'm not sure when it was, but I remember a couple of times he was on the sideline chuckling a few times because he couldn't believe what David decided to do. After one of the games he admitted that he didn't understand "that throw"
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Old 04-11-2013   #79
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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I'm not sure when it was, but I remember a couple of times he was on the sideline chuckling a few times because he couldn't believe what David decided to do. After one of the games he admitted that he didn't understand "that throw"
Wonder how different it is with Matt at times? Cant say he doesn't make some "what the heck was that?" type throws in many games. Or when he has two yards for a first and a clear field in front of him and throws it away.
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Old 04-11-2013   #80
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Default Re: Life Without Schaub: What if?

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
Wonder how different it is with Matt at times? Cant say he doesn't make some "what the heck was that?" type throws in many games. Or when he has two yards for a first and a clear field in front of him and throws it away.
You hear Kubiak occasionally talking about yards they left on the field. And we know that Kubiak yells at his QBs (see Sage, Carr), so I doubt he doesn't let Matt know about each and every one of them.

But.

The difference between Schaub and HWWNBN is so amazingly vast that it's just insane to compare them. But. I will. Kinda. I remember when I was just hoping for a QB who could throw for over 3600 yards, 16+ TDs, and <13 INTs in a season. It wasn't good.
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