Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-06-2013   #41
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 16,555
Rep Power: 143551 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
I'm not impressed. I'll just put it that way. And it isn't that he fails, per se. I'm not calling Schaub a scrub. He's a good QB. I don't personally believe he's good enough, but that doesn't mean he's bad. As for the stat, well there are the 4000 yard seasons by guys like Don Majkowski, Jeff George, Jay Schroeder, Jake Plummer, Scott Mitchell, Bill Kenney, Steve Beurlein and Matt Schaub. Then there are the 4000 yard seasons by guys like Manning, Marino, Young, Favre, Brees, and Rodgers.
1. Don Majkowski: He put up 1 4000 yard season in a 10 year career.

2. Jeff George: He put up 1 4000 yard season in an 11 year career. (Although he led the league in passing one year with just over 3900)

3. Jay Schroeder: Put up 1 4000 yard season in a 10 year career. In that season, he was throwing to Gary Clark and Art Monk. Great receivers.

4. Jake Plummer: Put up 1 4000 yard season in a 10 year career.

5. Scott Mitchell: Put up 1 4000 yard season in an 11 year career. Had a couple of great receivers AND Barry Sanders.

6. Bill Kenney: Put up 1 4000 yard season in a 9 year career.

7. Steve Beuerlein: Put up 1 4000 yard season in a 14 year career. (I have to admit, I always expected this guy to blossom into a great QB.)

8. Matt Schaub: Put up 3 4000 yard seasons so far in a 9 year career. Including a season with over 4700 yards (something none of those other guys have done.)

One of these 8 QBs is not like the other 7.

You might not like him or the way he plays, but he's a good QB. Can he get it done? Of course he can.

He's not going to make insane throws. He's not going to wow you with his athletic prowess.

He's got room for improvement and I don't think he's hit his ceiling, yet. But even so, with the right pieces around him, he can get it done.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013   #42
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,642
Rep Power: 157572 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
You might not like him or the way he plays, but he's a good QB.
Yeah, I read that somewhere earlier in this thread. Hang on, let me dig up the post.

Oh yeah, that was me, in the very post you quoted.

Quote:
I'm not calling Schaub a scrub. He's a good QB.
By missing that, you seem to have missed the very point of my post.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013   #43
bckey
Hall of Fame
 
bckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 53
Posts: 2,296
Rep Power: 15762 bckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Schaub threw for 4000+ three times - in 2009, 2010, and 2012. A record 11 different QBs threw for 4000 yards in 2012, including Carson Palmer, Josh Freeman, and Andrew Luck. In 2010, only five QBs threw for 4000 yards, with guys like Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and Romo missing the cut. In 2009, ten QBs threw for 4000 yards. There have been 48 total 4000-yd seasons in NFL history, and 36 of them have happened in the last four years. So it's pretty clear that the game has changed so that 4000 yards is not nearly as impressive as it used to be. Incidentally, Namath was the first ever 4000-yd passer, back in 1967.

I'd be more interested in a points per yard stat, or something to that effect, and how it translates to winning.

http://www.profootballhof.com/histor...elease_id=1330
http://www.profootballhof.com/histor...y-quarterback/
That is some great stuff you dug up Eriadoc. The game has definately changed. I got the old You must spread rep.
__________________
"For those who want to believe, no facts are necessary, but for those who do not, no amount of evidence will ever be enough."
bckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013   #44
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 16,555
Rep Power: 143551 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
By missing that, you seem to have missed the very point of my post.
When I say he's a good QB, I mean he's good enough to win a Super Bowl. When you say he's a good QB, you mean he can't win a Super Bowl. Right?

Your tried to counter the stat argument by implying that putting up 4000 yards in a season doesn't make you anything more than a Don Majkowski or a Bill Kenney. And that's true, as far as it goes. My counter to that point is that while some guys were able to put together a single good season, those guys you mentioned weren't able to put them together year after year like Schaub has. You were trying to lump Schaub in with those guys but he doesn't fit. He's better than those guys.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013   #45
TXAg14
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 34
Rep Power: 0 TXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respectedTXAg14 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

When you compare personnel around Flacco and Schaub, it's easier to see why Flacco won a super bowl.

Schaub has Foster, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels as his main go-to guys. You can talk about Casey, Walter, Posey/Martin/Jean but they didn't factor in as much as the big 3.

Flacco had Boldin, Torrey Smith and a good Jacoby Jones. Also had Ray Rice, Vonta Leach blocking, Dennis Pitta, etc. Flacco, IMO, had much better of a supporting cast. You had to cover Jones, Smith and Boldin down the field on any given play. You had to account for Ray Rice running the ball or off of the screen pass.

With the Texans, you had to cover Andre down the field. You had to worrry about Foster cutting the corner, and you had to cover Daniels over the middle. Other than that, there wasn't too much of a threat from the offense.

I really think if you give a few more weapons to Schaub offensively, you spread the field and really allow for the offense to shine. But if you are only relying on Andre for catches past 15 yards, it's hard for any sort of vertical offense to take place.
TXAg14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013   #46
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,642
Rep Power: 157572 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
When I say he's a good QB, I mean he's good enough to win a Super Bowl. When you say he's a good QB, you mean he can't win a Super Bowl. Right?
Meh, sort of. Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl. Brad Johnson was good enough to win a Super Bowl. Gus Frerotte was good enough to win a Super Bowl. Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler both won Super Bowls. They were all good QBs, at least in the season that they won those Super Bowls. But they couldn't have been one of the primary catalysts to that Super Bowl win on a year to year basis. I don't think Schaub is good enough that he can compensate for shortages elsewhere ont he team. It's a tough subject, because I don't think he's a bad QB, and it's a team game, but I don't have confidence that he's going to do something to win the game when it's on the line like I do/did with lots of other QBs - think Staubach, Montana, the current crop of top notch QBs, etc. So basically what it boils down to is do I think Schaub can pull off a Brad Johnson year? Well, sure. Do I think the team can feel 100% confident in its QB position and count on him to win games? Not at all.

Quote:
Your tried to counter the stat argument by implying that putting up 4000 yards in a season doesn't make you anything more than a Don Majkowski or a Bill Kenney.
Not exactly. I'm saying there are gradations to that achievement. Schaub's 4770 yard season was one of the highest totals of all time when it happened, and I kind of shrugged my shoulders and said "meh". The team went 6-10 and he racked up a bunch of yards when it didn't matter. IIRC, that was the year that they scored 7 or fewer points in the first half ten times. The defense was awful, but Schaub was lucky to throw a TD in the first half. So when they came out slinging in the second half, what are you going to say? That he was great? The other team was playing bend don't break and trying not to lose a 3TD lead. I don't rank that 4000 yard season on par with some of the really great 4000 yard seasons. Sorry, not impressed. The fact that he's put up 4000 yards three times is good, but that is to a great degree because of the offense and the era. I feel like Jake Plummer could come from a team where he never put up 4000 yards and hit that in Kubiak's offense. Wait, he did.

Anyway, I'm really not trying to bag on Schaub, but I feel like there are gradations in 4000 yard seasons, and Schaub's middle of the pack, IMO, and the number is fast becoming the standard.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013   #47
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 43,710
Rep Power: 225226 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to infantrycak
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Not exactly. I'm saying there are gradations to that achievement. Schaub's 4770 yard season was one of the highest totals of all time when it happened, and I kind of shrugged my shoulders and said "meh". The team went 6-10 and he racked up a bunch of yards when it didn't matter. IIRC, that was the year that they scored 7 or fewer points in the first half ten times. The defense was awful, but Schaub was lucky to throw a TD in the first half. So when they came out slinging in the second half, what are you going to say? That he was great? The other team was playing bend don't break and trying not to lose a 3TD lead. I don't rank that 4000 yard season on par with some of the really great 4000 yard seasons. Sorry, not impressed. The fact that he's put up 4000 yards three times is good, but that is to a great degree because of the offense and the era. I feel like Jake Plummer could come from a team where he never put up 4000 yards and hit that in Kubiak's offense. Wait, he did.

Anyway, I'm really not trying to bag on Schaub, but I feel like there are gradations in 4000 yard seasons, and Schaub's middle of the pack, IMO, and the number is fast becoming the standard.
Yeah, well sometimes stat haters need to check what your eyes are telling you.

2009

1st half - 2658 yds, 19 TD's - passer rating 109.3
2nd half - 2112 yds, 10 TD's

3071 yds and 20 TD's when the margin was 7 or less.
1023 yds and 3 TD's when then margin was over 2 TD's much less your 3 TD assertion.

Sorry, your eyes were wrong.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013   #48
eriadoc
Texan-American
 
eriadoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,642
Rep Power: 157572 eriadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respectederiadoc is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via ICQ to eriadoc Send a message via Yahoo to eriadoc
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Yeah, well sometimes stat haters need to check what your eyes are telling you.

2009

1st half - 2658 yds, 19 TD's - passer rating 109.3
2nd half - 2112 yds, 10 TD's

3071 yds and 20 TD's when the margin was 7 or less.
1023 yds and 3 TD's when then margin was over 2 TD's much less your 3 TD assertion.

Sorry, your eyes were wrong.
It's not eyes, it's memory. That what the IIRC was for. So since you posted those stats,that means 2010 was the year to which I referred. In '09, they fell apart in the 2nd half, but in '10 it was the first half. Back to back years they couldn't put a complete game together.
__________________
Anyone but Schaub.
eriadoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #49
ObsiWan
Contributor
 
ObsiWan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: League City, Tx
Age: 62
Posts: 11,722
Rep Power: 114714 ObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respectedObsiWan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

How did we get so far down this 4,000-yd rabbit trail? Those stats don't necessarily translate into championships. As an example, Peyton Manning has the most 4,000+ seasons of any QB in history, 12.
TWELVE!
Yet having a dozen 4,000-yd seasons has only netted him ONE RING. And goodness knows he had weapons around him.

On the other hand, both Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw have four rings apiece and yet NEITHER of them is a member of this 4,000-yd passing club (at least according to the site eriadoc pointed us to). You know what the DID have? Pretty damned good supporting casts around them and pretty damned good defenses for when they had off days.

I think we have a pretty damned good defense. However, we could add a couple more pieces to a pretty decent supporting cast.

I'm of the same mindset as TPN (or TexasMike or whoever); you gotta have a good TEAM to win it all. Having a 4,000-yd QB means squat if you don't.
ObsiWan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #50
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 16,555
Rep Power: 143551 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
How did we get so far down this 4,000-yd rabbit trail? Those stats don't necessarily translate into championships. As an example, Peyton Manning has the most 4,000+ seasons of any QB in history, 12.
TWELVE!
Yet having a dozen 4,000-yd seasons has only netted him ONE RING. And goodness knows he had weapons around him.

On the other hand, both Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw have four rings apiece and yet NEITHER of them is a member of this 4,000-yd passing club (at least according to the site eriadoc pointed us to). You know what the DID have? Pretty damned good supporting casts around them and pretty damned good defenses for when they had off days.

I think we have a pretty damned good defense. However, we could add a couple more pieces to a pretty decent supporting cast.

I'm of the same mindset as TPN (or TexasMike or whoever); you gotta have a good TEAM to win it all. Having a 4,000-yd QB means squat if you don't.
^^^^ This.

I think 4000 yard seasons (especially multiple 4000 yard seasons) are a good indicator that the QB is a good QB. If you've got a QB who can consistently throw for over 4000 yards and do it without throwing a lot of interceptions or making a lot of mental mistakes, then that piece of your team isn't what's holding you back.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #51
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,298
Rep Power: 153118 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by eriadoc View Post
Anyway, I'm really not trying to bag on Schaub, but I feel like there are gradations in 4000 yard seasons, and Schaub's middle of the pack, IMO, and the number is fast becoming the standard.
True, again........ becoming. There are QBs that will be helping 4000 yards to become the norm & there are those that aren't. Schaub is one of the ones who will.

He had a bad season. He looked like horse crap. But still put up 4000 yards (4008). That's pretty good for a guy who's meh...

& don't get me wrong, I think he's meh... & while 4000 yards is becoming the norm, how many QBs have hit that number with the regularity that Schaub has? He's got three bonafide seasons in the last 4 years. How many QBs have as many?

I am not a Schaub fan, but I'm not going to belittle the one good thing he's done.

Do I honestly think Schaub can win a Super Bowl?
If Flacco can, hell yeah Schaub can.
But he needed Jacoby to come through in 3 consecutive games.
He needed Torrey Smith to come through in 3 consecutive games
He needed Anquan Bolden to go off in the post season
He needed an OL that had been maligned all season long to step up
Schaub outplayed Flacco all year long & that 4008 yards was part of that.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #52
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,835
Rep Power: 103323 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
On the other hand, both Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw have four rings apiece and yet NEITHER of them is a member of this 4,000-yd passing club (at least according to the site eriadoc pointed us to). You know what the DID have? Pretty damned good supporting casts around them and pretty damned good defenses for when they had off days.
You can't really compare numbers from different eras. Montana finished among the top 10 in pass yardage in 10 seasons. Bradshaw did so in 5. Schaub has finished among the top 10 in passing yards twice. If Montana and Bradshaw played in today's NFL, they would most certainly be 4000 yard passers.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #53
Uncle Rico
Pro BS'er
 
Uncle Rico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near the Mountains
Section: Nose Bleeds
Posts: 1,035
Rep Power: 12391 Uncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respectedUncle Rico is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Schaub needs the defense to step back up to elite level status for him to be a SB winning QB. He wont get you to the promised land with his arm or skill set alone. It can obviously be done, but our defense regressed last year.
__________________
How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?... Yeah... Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.
Uncle Rico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #54
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 12,835
Rep Power: 103323 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
Schaub needs the defense to step back up to elite level status for him to be a SB winning QB
The defense needs Schaub to step back up to pre-December 2012 status, also. The Texans' starting offense scored only 3 TDs over the last 4 games. The defense was elite against the Bengals in the wildcard round, with Cincy's only TD coming thanks to a Schaub pick 6. It's very fair for the defense to ask for a little help.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #55
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
 
The Pencil Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Age: 52
Posts: 16,555
Rep Power: 143551 The Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respectedThe Pencil Neck is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
The defense needs Schaub to step back up to pre-December 2012 status, also. The Texans' starting offense scored only 3 TDs over the last 4 games. The defense was elite against the Bengals in the wildcard round, with Cincy's only TD coming thanks to a Schaub pick 6. It's very fair for the defense to ask for a little help.
We had a bad December and January with both sides of the ball having issues.

Now, we need to learn from our mistakes, retool, reload, and come back stronger than ever.
__________________
Adoptee: #55 - Chris Myers.
The Pencil Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #56
Texanmike02
Site Contributor
 
Texanmike02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 36
Posts: 7,794
Rep Power: 58272 Texanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
How did we get so far down this 4,000-yd rabbit trail? Those stats don't necessarily translate into championships. As an example, Peyton Manning has the most 4,000+ seasons of any QB in history, 12.
TWELVE!
Yet having a dozen 4,000-yd seasons has only netted him ONE RING. And goodness knows he had weapons around him.

On the other hand, both Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw have four rings apiece and yet NEITHER of them is a member of this 4,000-yd passing club (at least according to the site eriadoc pointed us to). You know what the DID have? Pretty damned good supporting casts around them and pretty damned good defenses for when they had off days.

I think we have a pretty damned good defense. However, we could add a couple more pieces to a pretty decent supporting cast.

I'm of the same mindset as TPN (or TexasMike or whoever); you gotta have a good TEAM to win it all. Having a 4,000-yd QB means squat if you don't.
Agreed. That Manning only has one ring is evidence that even with the best QB in the league you must surround him with the right talent to win it all. Put together the best post 1980 QB seasons. Manning, Marino, Elway, Favre, Montana, Brady, Brees and Young. There are over 100 seasons between them but only 16 super bowls. The best doesn't always win. Having a great QB gives you a great starting point but it isn't enough. That Manning and Marino have one ring between them should tell you that EVERY QB is the result of the parts around him. Look at Eli. He's not an elite QB. HE had weapons galore. His brother? The pressure was always on him. Peyton could roast you and is flat out the best QB I've ever seen but he always had to do too much. He had to get a lead early so his defense could attack the passer. I was a colts fan between the Oilers and Texans. I watched Manning every week. I reviewed his games like I used to review the Texans back when I posted reviews on the original TT. You can only ask greatness to be great so often. You can't ask a QB to thread the needle every throw. When Eli has won SBs he made some great throws but he didn't do it over and over. That goes for every QB.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't think this team, as it stands, can win a SB with Schaub OR any other QB. Either the defense needs to be great, I mean add another premier LB AND a dominant DL or we need to add another dominant WR and one of the aforementioned players. We ask Schaub to thread too many throws. We flat out don't get open and our running game is not as dominant as it was two years ago. Any team that has an athletic LB to cover Daniels and a top cover safety will give us fits.

Mike
__________________

Sig by False Start - Thanks man

Govern my country, NOT MY LIFE!
Texanmike02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #57
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,298
Rep Power: 153118 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
We had a bad December and January with both sides of the ball having issues.

Now, we need to learn from our mistakes, retool, reload, and come back stronger than ever.
The defense wasn't great in New England in January, but they can only do so much. We had many scoring opportunities where we failed. Heck, Danieal Manning gave them the Red Zone on the opening kick & we had to settle for a field goal.

Yeah, Casey dropped an easy six. But Matt stayed on OD too long on the next play & totally missed a wide open Aj in the back of the endzone. By the time he pulled the trigger, Aj had already gone by.

Had we scored 7 then, no doubt in my mind our defense would have took it to the Patriots.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #58
Texanmike02
Site Contributor
 
Texanmike02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 36
Posts: 7,794
Rep Power: 58272 Texanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanmike02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
The defense wasn't great in New England in January, but they can only do so much. We had many scoring opportunities where we failed. Heck, Danieal Manning gaem the Red Zone on the opening kick & we had to settle for a field goal.

Yeah, Casey dropped an easy six. But Matt stayed on OD too long on the next play & totally missed a wide open Aj in the back of the endzone. By the time he pulled the trigger, Aj had already gone by.

Had we scored 7 then, no doubt in my mind our defense would have took it to the Patriots.
This speaks to how one phase of the game can affect another phase. If the Ol or DL or receivers don't pull their weight you see other players trying to do too much. It is like the OL. You can have 2 great pass blockers look terrible if they play next to someone that doesn't pull their weight. Look rivers last year. His reievers were terrible. Did he suddenly become a rag doll QB? Hell look at ray lewis a few years ago. People said he was done. They get a solid DT and he plays 6 more seasons as a feature of their defense.

Mike
__________________

Sig by False Start - Thanks man

Govern my country, NOT MY LIFE!
Texanmike02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2013   #59
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 41
Posts: 32,298
Rep Power: 153118 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texanmike02 View Post
This speaks to how one phase of the game can affect another phase. If the Ol or DL or receivers don't pull their weight you see other players trying to do too much. It is like the OL. You can have 2 great pass blockers look terrible if they play next to someone that doesn't pull their weight. Look rivers last year. His reievers were terrible. Did he suddenly become a rag doll QB? Hell look at ray lewis a few years ago. People said he was done. They get a solid DT and he plays 6 more seasons as a feature of their defense.

Mike
& it was night & day difference between the way New England played us & the way they played the Ravens.

Against us, they couldn't do anything wrong. Guys we hadn't even heard of had great games on both sides of the ball. Vs the Ravens, Tom Terrific looked meh......

I don't think their defense looked any better than ours did, but that second half, it was all Ravens.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2013   #60
Rey
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 14,475
Rep Power: 0 Rey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respectedRey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Football Outsiders: State of the Texans

Schaub has be a bit better than John Kitna and Chad pennington. And really I think most of that has to do with who he's playing with and who he's playing for.

Those aren't terrible QB's.
Rey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger