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Old 03-31-2013   #21
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I agree with "the highest", anyway.

Forget Rogers pot smoking and Allen's knee for a moment. Allen is the better WR prospect. Allen has better hands, is quicker, is more elusive, has a better understanding of the passing game. They are equal in straight line speed. Rogers is bigger and stronger. That's it. I would gamble on Allen anytime over Rogers.
He's not faster or more elusive. His (Allen's) understanding of the route tree is higher, but they are not equal in straight line speed. Allen is the better WR today, injuries aside. Rogers, red flags aside, is the better WR prospect. Allen is ready to play today which is a huge selling point of him, but he's a #2 WR. Rogers isn't ready to be anything more than a fly-route guy right now, but he is head and shoulders above Allen on potential. The gamble with all three of the Tennessee-ish WR's is that their floor is lower as mentioned above. They are gambles. However, like I said, they are the only WR1 guys. Allen is a very good prospect, but he is not a WR1 down the road unless it is by default. I'd gamble on all three of Rogers, Hunter, and Patterson over Allen. You can be fairly certain what you're getting with Allen, Hopkins, Patton which is great, but you can also be fairly certain that is all you are going to get from them. The gamble is on upside. That's why you gamble on the superior talent, not the immediate production.
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Old 03-31-2013   #22
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Allen is solid in every aspect of the passing game.
With Hunter, it's potential, with Allen, he's already there.
It must be said that Hunter's hands have to be taken into account. For WRs >40 targets, Hunter had the highest drop rate of 12.1% of all in this draft class.

In the NFL in 2012, only Early Doucet was worse.
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Old 03-31-2013   #23
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

Nobody knows how fast Allen can run; he has never been timed before.
On tapes, there have been more occasions that Allen showed elusiveness than either Rogers or Hunter.
Watch some 2011 tapes!
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Old 03-31-2013   #24
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

Or watch this one.

Watch how he left Kenny Vaccaro and Desmond Trufant in the dirt.
And these two guys are very highly regarded around here.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&v=Z700g-sndZ4
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Old 03-31-2013   #25
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Default Re: Sports Iluustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
that's a very vague statement. I mentioned to friends when I saw his injury that it would be blown out of proportion & people will think he could fall to the Texans, so here we are, draft hyperbole. Closest thing to total package in WR class, that's my opinion you obviously have yours. He is not a top 10 pick but at least top 20. Crabtree is looking strong now but took him four years & he was the 10th overall selection & he had a foot fracture I believe so he couldn't run either, similar styles think he ran a 4.55 so that is about what I expect from Allen if he chooses to run. Dez Bryant is another comparable, with exception of his off field antics dude can still ball & is a playmaker he dropped to #24 & ran his forty 4.52. All three receivers have excellent vision & can create yards after the catch. Really hard to rate those three players against each other for various positive & negative attributes but I would say Kennan is the cleanest & most willing to sacrifice whatever it takes for the team.

In regards to rest of group, I also love Austin speed & playmaking ability. Maybe more like a DeSean Jackson or smaller Percy Harvin but because of his less than ideal NFL size he will probably go after Allen. Other teams besides Texans are intrigued with size/speed/strength ratios. Hopkins is a baller, tough, reliable but not a game breaker. Have a hard time differentiating between Hunter & Da'Rick Rodgers must be a Tennessee thing? Rodgers is probably the closest thing to Allen if you can trust him off the field? Great movement skills & game breaking ability, better speed too, just those red flags are hard to ignore, might work out just fine in a place like Cincinnati. Hunter is a first round tweener who reminds me of Lestar Jean, just lacks core strength, beautiful acrobatic frame to make highlight reel catches but how will he hold up? Patterson lets just say is still a raw talent. He is worth selection for his return skills alone but depending on his work ethic & intelligence Teams may be willing to take their time developing that natural ability. I just don't see him as an impact WR anytime soon. Quinton Patton is a personal favorite, plays with passion for the game which can make up for a lot. I think he will develop into a killer #2 for some team & if Texans chose that route I would look forward to immediate results, just wish he had more speed to stretch the field.

Anyway that is pretty much my take on Keenan Allen comparable both in the league now & next to arrive. He is a top tier talent who fits the NFL prototype for position.
Check ot Corrosions picks over in the TT Mock draft section,

Would you be happy if the draft fell like this for the Texans?

I know I would be jumping with joy.
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Old 04-01-2013   #26
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Default Re: Sports Iluustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Check ot Corrosions picks over in the TT Mock draft section,

Would you be happy if the draft fell like this for the Texans?

I know I would be jumping with joy.
That would be an incredible draft. Can't wait to see who he picks next. If I were picking next for the texans I would seriously consider one of three QB's or an ILB that is good at blitzing and pass coverage.
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Old 04-01-2013   #27
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Default Re: Sports Iluustrated 2013 Mocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Check ot Corrosions picks over in the TT Mock draft section,

Would you be happy if the draft fell like this for the Texans?

I know I would be jumping with joy.
As a whole do you see Texans going this route? Dobson pick in 3rd would be amazing, he was there so you take him but don't see him actually falling that far in actual draft, just have to wait & see. Know both of you love D'Rick Rodgers but doubt he is even on Texans board? You have both Brandon Williams & Jesse Williams available in the 2nd which allows you to take another position in 1st. I would have selected Barwins replacement Damontre Moore or 5 tech DE Datone Jones. Maybe Texans really like Hunt of Okafor? That way you cover pass rush, enforcer up the middle & deep threat with first three picks. Just a guess but pass rusher is now the priority pick/need left on the board. The polished ones are gone but you could still take developmental player with high ceiling like South Carolina Devin Taylor. That would help me live with this group because of its upside & uncharacteristic Texan risk
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Old 04-01-2013   #28
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
It must be said that Hunter's hands have to be taken into account. For WRs >40 targets, Hunter had the highest drop rate of 12.1% of all in this draft class.

In the NFL in 2012, only Early Doucet was worse.
In no way am I making a comparison of player to AJ, but Andre didn't have great hands coming out of Miami. He worked hard at it. I remember plenty of articles about his extra work with the pitching machines to catch extra balls. Hands (to a certain level) can be taught. I worry less about that than most people seem to on here. Welker led the league in drops I believe and Dez Bryant was one of the tops as well. I think we'd all take those guys. Not everyone has Fitzgerald hands. If things are close, the argument is void IMO. That's something that can be (fairly) quickly improved with some off-season work and isn't that big of a gap to start with. We're talking about 2-3 extra drops per year. Total. Before improvements.
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Old 04-01-2013   #29
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by Insideop View Post
Who is projecting Allen's max to be 700-850 yds 6 TD's? You say that those numbers are Hunters floor. No, his floor is way lower than that! That's the thing with Patterson, Hunter, and Rodgers, their ceilings are high, but there is a big bust potential with each also. None are as NFL ready as Allen or Hopkins.

So, the question comes down to this; do the Texans want a #2 WR that will replace Walter and is ready to play now, or do they want a #1 WR with a higher ceiling that might be ready to play in a couple of years and replace AJ? My guess is they want the #2 who can play now. We'll see!
If he is to come here and be a #2 and produce right away, that's the max he's going to be putting up in this offense with AJ still on the roster. That's why i set his max where i did. Furthermore, outside of like 1-2 teams with 2 legit #1 WR's on thier rosters, that's about where a #2 WR's numbers sit......

You're unfairly basing Hunter's floor on him being a bust just b/c he has the higher ceiling....Ummm....you do know Allen can be a bust too right? The bust factor doesn't just exponentially grow based on a players potential only...it's largely a by product of where you're drafted...in any event i don't thing the bust factor is very high for a player taken at 27. it wasn't that long ago that Aaron Curry was unaminously the most "pro ready" LB/player in the draft.....the guy is basically out of the league now b/c apparently he wasn't as pro ready as some thought.

Just like you say Hunter might be able to come in and play in a couple of years, Allen might be able to come in, beat out Lestar Jean, Keshawn Martin and anyone else Kubes wants to bring in and produce right away. If he can't do that or if he's out for any significant time before the season starts for any reason (injury in training camp/preseason) that immediate play & produce benefit is voided....especially with the what Kubes expects of his WR's.

In any event, I think Hunter's the better prospect b/c we stand to gain more in the short & long term if Hunter lives up to his potential. If he reaches 1/2 of his potential he should still be able to put up good numbers as a #2...anything else over that is gravy for us. If he busts we're screwed, but we'd be no more screwed than we would be if Allen turns out to be a bust as well.

Last edited by Mr teX; 04-01-2013 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 04-01-2013   #30
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

Just to clarify it, it wasn't unanimous with Aaron Curry.
I went toe-to-toe with a good poster here (ThreeToePeed), and went against the grain on Curry.
I didn't even want anything to do with Curry.
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Old 04-01-2013   #31
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

I like Hunter, but I like Allen more.
If healthy the same, I see Allen as a bona-fide first rounder with floor as an excellent number two receiver, and with potential to become a number-one receiver.

I don't know which guy has a higher ceiling, but Allen definitely has a higher floor.

Hunter is a borderline first round prospect, to me.

To be safe, I would put Allen between #15-25; but if he doesn't check out at his private work-out, his stock will drop for me.

Likewise, I would put Hunter at the top of the second round to be safe.
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Old 04-01-2013   #32
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Default Re: Sports Iluustrated 2013 Mocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Check ot Corrosions picks over in the TT Mock draft section,

Would you be happy if the draft fell like this for the Texans?

I know I would be jumping with joy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
just have to wait & see. Know both of you love D'Rick Rodgers but doubt he is even on Texans board?:
Well they interviewed him so I guess he's at least peeked their interest. I would imagine how he did in the meeting will determine whether or not he's on their board.
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Old 04-02-2013   #33
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

Just not seeing it with Allen.
I would rather get a guy that is somewhere in the ballpark of Allen in the second or third round and draft a different position where you would not be able to get near the player in the 2nd or 3rd round.
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Old 04-02-2013   #34
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

I would take Allen and another guy in the third round; or trade for a future first and another pick in this draft.

There are 3 guys next year that I think has higher ceiling.
Megatron 2.0, Marquise Lee, and Sammy Watkins.
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Old 04-02-2013   #35
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I would take Allen and another guy in the third round; or trade for a future first and another pick in this draft.

There are 3 guys next year that I think has higher ceiling.
Megatron 2.0, Marquise Lee, and Sammy Watkins.
Yep. Next year better for franchise QB prospects as well, imo.
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Old 04-02-2013   #36
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I would take Allen and another guy in the third round; or trade for a future first and another pick in this draft.

There are 3 guys next year that I think has higher ceiling.
Megatron 2.0, Marquise Lee, and Sammy Watkins.
trade what to get that future 1st though?
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Old 04-02-2013   #37
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

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trade what to get that future 1st though?
Trade our first to a crappy team if we can; and then possibly package two firsts next year to move up.
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Old 04-02-2013   #38
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=s5UsL...%3Ds5UsL4371Jc

Watch this and tell me that Keenan is not fast or elusive.

And this is his freshman year, alright!
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Old 04-02-2013   #39
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Default Re: Sports Iluustrated 2013 Mocks

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Allen is a #1 WR. Best in class ahead of Patterson. I would call that a no brainer.
Patterson is a high risk/high reward player. Allen has a lower ceiling than Patterson but a much higher floor. Would be a much safer choice.
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Old 04-03-2013   #40
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Default Re: Sports Illustrated 2013 Mocks

Bleecher newest mock post free agency has Cordarrelle Patterson going #8 to Bills & Keenan Allen #10 to Titans. Remember I said no receiver should be graded out a top 10 pick? Then they doll out Jarvis Jones to Texans - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...agency/page/28 whatcha think about those shocking numbers? usually closer we get to actual draft the better idea we have who will go where, not so much this year its absolutely a crazy
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