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Old 03-20-2013   #121
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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We "haters" get no love.
I have love for you, brother, even though you can be an A sometimes, many times, often, LOL!
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Old 03-20-2013   #122
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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I have love for you, brother, even though you can be an A sometimes, many times, often, LOL!
I learned from Bill & Red-Zone
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Old 03-20-2013   #123
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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I learned from Bill & Red-Zone
You learn too damn well, hahahaha!
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Old 03-20-2013   #124
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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You learn too damn well, hahahaha!
There's an art to this...I've yet to rise to the level of master Bill and grandmaster Red-zone.
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Old 03-20-2013   #125
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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There's an art to this...I've yet to rise to the level of master Bill and grandmaster Red-zone.
Y'all are natural ... Pains in the butt!
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Old 03-20-2013   #126
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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WOW! Just wow!!

Dan Pastorini (and I've brought this up before) who was known for a very strong arm believes Schaub can make any and every throw necessary. He (Dante) believes that Schaub's footwork needs some improvement with regards to his deep balls.
I agree 100% with this. He holds the ball a tad too long and it looks like he opens up too much (for lack of a better descriptive phrase) on intermediate and deep throws. Pitchers can do the same thing which can cause wildness, particularly balls coming in high. It seems like alot of Schaub's intermediate throws tend to be high
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Old 03-20-2013   #127
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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it's more of Kubiak not looking for him when we're close and in the red zone.

I think everyone recognizes once we're inside the 15-10 yd line kubiak's playcallying goes ultra conservative...its the chief reason Foster's TD production has been double digits since he became a starter for us in 2010. If we do pass it, it's usually something underneath to a TE.....or to Foster largely b/c kubiak doesn't want to take a chance throwing it up to AJ. Kubiak is also not very creative calling plays either...Sometimes you just gotta put things on tape so coaches are aware that it's in your arsenal...Last year, we just play-actioned teams to death..teams got really used to seeing that & killed it.
I just can't get behind this. On any given down, on any given play, there is not one guy that Schaub is supposed to get the ball to, unless it's a screen. Other than a screen, Schaub is supposed to read the defense & decide where to go with the ball. If his first option is open, that's where he goes. If not, he goes to his second, & third, & so on until he has to decide to check it down, throw it away, or take a sack.

I remember during our divisional game against the Ravens in the 2011 season play-offs, Yates was told many time to trust Aj, give him a chance. I can't imagine Schaub doesn't have that same directive. But then we jump on him for "forcing" it to Aj.
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Old 03-20-2013   #128
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I agree 100% with this. He holds the ball a tad too long and it looks like he opens up too much (for lack of a better descriptive phrase) on intermediate and deep throws. Pitchers can do the same thing which can cause wildness, particularly balls coming in high. It seems like alot of Schaub's intermediate throws tend to be high
Before 2011, these are the exact things that I'd like for Schaub to improve on; and he did in 2011.

In 2012, especially late in the season; it might have been the reverse.
As TK pointed out, it looks to me that Schaub tends to get rid of the ball a bit too soon at times.

Somebody mentioned that it looks like he doesn't trust the protection enough.

It could be that Kubiak had worked to instill in Schaub the thought of "living for another day" a little too much; or Schaub himself carried it overboard.

I have rewatched all the games down the stretch and I must say I'm not too happy with Schaub.
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Old 03-20-2013   #129
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post

It could be that Kubiak had worked to instill in Schaub the thought of "living for another day" a little too much; or Schaub himself carried it overboard.
Or, it could be that he's trying to "step up" his game.

He knows that he isn't particularly fleet of foot. He knows that he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league. He knows that his ball placement leaves something to be desired.

If he's going to get better...... & the only thing he is "really" good at is getting rid of the ball quickly, maybe that means get rid of it quicker to him.

Who knows?
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Old 03-20-2013   #130
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Cool - within three posts Schaub holds the ball too long and gets rid of it too soon.

Just kind of funny. Reality is I am sure every QB can be accused of both on individual plays.
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Old 03-20-2013   #131
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I just can't get behind this. On any given down, on any given play, there is not one guy that Schaub is supposed to get the ball to, unless it's a screen. Other than a screen, Schaub is supposed to read the defense & decide where to go with the ball. If his first option is open, that's where he goes. If not, he goes to his second, & third, & so on until he has to decide to check it down, throw it away, or take a sack.

I remember during our divisional game against the Ravens in the 2011 season play-offs, Yates was told many time to trust Aj, give him a chance. I can't imagine Schaub doesn't have that same directive. But then we jump on him for "forcing" it to Aj.

You think Peyton Manning is dropping back surveying the defense every single passing play without a clue of where he's going with the ball and who's getting it before he snaps it? I guess that's why he's legendary for getting the ball out on time..............and staring his WR's down too then huh? Lol the bolded is not at all accurate; 99% of good starting caliber qb's know where they're going with the ball presnap...the really great qb's and HC's know how to manipulate the defense presnap to get the play that they want to the guy they want.....neither of which are to be confused with Schaub and Kubiak...1: b/c Kubiak and his playcalling aren't aggressive and creative enough and 2: b/c Schaub is afforded very little flexibility with audibling.


Furthermore, I'm talking specifically in and around the red zone...where it's pretty tough for the safety to get all the way over the top if a fade route is thrown and 2 where you especially want to spread the ball around to all your playmakers and be more creative with your playcalling thereby giving the defense more to think about. Kubiak did none of that. 9 out of 10 times its a dive or stretch play, curl routes/dump offs up underneath to OD/Foster...and we casually yard by yard move inside the 10 where we can't get anymore 1st downs and then we kick a fg.....unless Foster breaks 1 before we get to that point. I don't think i saw a fade or deep post/ post corner route to AJ 1 time last year.

Opposing teams see your tendencies & i just think that towards the end of the season, Kubiak didn't do his offense any favors by trotting out the same gameplan week after week with little to no creativity. Then i watch teams like the patriots get inside the redzone, bring in an extra tackle, making him tackle elgible forcing the defense to either call a TO or think just enough as they run it up in the EZ for a score...Sure they didn't use the tackle elgible as a WR, but it's on tape and becomes an ace in the hole for them in tight games/playoff games.
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Old 03-20-2013   #132
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Haha, from what I've seen, on deep balls, he tends to hold the ball a bit too long. I'm thinking specifically on boot legs as it seems we take most of our deep shots off those. I do think his footwork could improve, but that's easier said then done otherwise everyone's footwork would be perfect. I think at times he checks down fairly quickly.

Personally I rather have a receiver slow a bit and make a 40 yd connection vs watching balls sail over WRs heads when they're open deep
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Old 03-20-2013   #133
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Cool - within three posts Schaub holds the ball too long and gets rid of it too soon.

Just kind of funny. Reality is I am sure every QB can be accused of both on individual plays.
With Otisbean's observations, I think it's more of a case that there are instances that Schaub didn't get the ball out on time; and I agree.

In the latter part of the season, there were inconsistencies in his game.
On certain plays, IMO, he should have taken the time but he didn't.
And then on other plays, he could have gotten the ball out sooner but he didn't either.
His rhythm, again - to me, is out of whack.

It was rather frustrating in the reviews.
I wanted to whack him sometimes (others not helping him is another matter.)

The whole offense was out whack really; it was far from a well-oiled machine that they showed in certain other games; and that included untimely penalties and stuffs. It simply lacked cohesive; and I have to say the QB is at the forefront.

You know I'm not over-critical of Schaub, but his plays left much to desire.
I expected a little better, at least.
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Old 03-21-2013   #134
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Not exactly the long ball which the thread is about, but it's interesting to see how Schaub does against blitzes.



Note that this stat does not take into account # of blockers.
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Old 03-21-2013   #135
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Not exactly the long ball which the thread is about, but it's interesting to see how Schaub does against blitzes.



Note that this stat does not take into account # of blockers.


Odd...Schaub in the aforementioned stats has 1 TD but TWO INTERCEPTIONS. Interesting. Where's the GREAT JOE FLACCO on this list?

And prithe Flacco...*where art thou? Deny thy statistics...and refuse thy press clippings...

* I used "where" here instead of wherefore because "wherefore" technically is another way of saying "why".
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Old 03-21-2013   #136
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Flacco plays in a more vertical scheme. Schaub does well in our dink n dunk scheme designed to have a choice of dump passes. That is why a guy like AJ can have 1600 yards and 4 TD's.
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Old 03-21-2013   #137
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
Not exactly the long ball which the thread is about, but it's interesting to see how Schaub does against blitzes.


Note that this stat does not take into account # of blockers.


Use your eyes man. Use your eyes. Peyton, Brady, & Flacco aren't even on that list... therefore it can not be used in any shape, form, or fashion as evidence to the value of a "good" to "great" QB.


OT: the player from Texas fan in me is aweful anxious to see what happens with that Tannehill fella
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Old 03-21-2013   #138
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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And also we need to compare Schaub to players about his level, not guys that earn more.

Why do we even try to compare Schaub with Brady and Ben?
You're kidding , right? When the man who owns the team and the HC think he's good enough to get us to a Super Bowl, then let's see how he compares to those who do.

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If he (Schaub) can throw the deep out, it doesn't really make sense to complain about his underthrowing receivers down the middle.
Really? So, if you offense commonly gets the WR/TE free deep over the middle and your QB hangs it up there like a punt, you don't have any reason to complain? Maybe not all his fault though (see below).

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I honestly don't believe the mental aspect of Schaub is even all on him...He shares that deficiency with his head coach; actually i put it more on Kubiak than i do Schaub b/c Kubiak just refuses to do certain things. Dre only having 4 TD's with 1500 yds recieving isn't simply him and Schaub not connecting in the red zone or schaub constantly underthrowing him deep on obvious potential TD's. it's more of Kubiak not looking for him when we're close and in the red zone.
I agree with this and it's been said before by Schaub that his instructions are to put it up there and let his receiver go get it. (I'm guessing the theory being that a 30 yd. completion is better than the potential miss vs. potential TD.)

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I just can't get behind this. On any given down, on any given play, there is not one guy that Schaub is supposed to get the ball to, unless it's a screen. Other than a screen, Schaub is supposed to read the defense & decide where to go with the ball. If his first option is open, that's where he goes. If not, he goes to his second, & third, & so on until he has to decide to check it down, throw it away, or take a sack.

I remember during our divisional game against the Ravens in the 2011 season play-offs, Yates was told many time to trust Aj, give him a chance. I can't imagine Schaub doesn't have that same directive. But then we jump on him for "forcing" it to Aj.
True to a point, but Schaub also forces it to AJ when other guys are wide open because he likes his security blanket. All things being equal, I'd go to AJ too, but he does it in very UNequal circumstances as well.

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99% of good starting caliber qb's know where they're going with the ball presnap...the really great qb's and HC's know how to manipulate the defense presnap to get the play that they want to the guy they want.
On rare instances, that's true, but 95+% of the time, neither Brady, Manning, Rodgers, et al. are reading the coverages DOWNfield and determining the best target to throw to. Reading your progressions quickly is what makes for a good NFL QB. Manning is one of the best in the business with finding the open receiver as a play drags on.
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Old 03-21-2013   #139
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Really? So, if you offense commonly gets the WR/TE free deep over the middle and your QB hangs it up there like a punt, you don't have any reason to complain? Maybe not all his fault though (see below).

I agree with this and it's been said before by Schaub that his instructions are to put it up there and let his receiver go get it. (I'm guessing the theory being that a 30 yd. completion is better than the potential miss vs. potential TD.)
I have to say I both understand the criticism and like the result better. Carr had a cannon for an arm but it was so frustrating watching him overthrow Bradford and AJ by 5 yards. Yeah, I would rather have the 30 yard completion than the ball bouncing on the field in front of them.

I also think people really under appreciate how difficult it is to chuck a ball into a theoretical pickle barrel which is moving under its own plan while jacking with at least one defender 40 yards down the field while one or more people who intend to hurt you are about to pound you into sand.

No doubt about it, Schaub is not a Staubach or Elway. Those cats are rare.

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True to a point, but Schaub also forces it to AJ when other guys are wide open because he likes his security blanket. All things being equal, I'd go to AJ too, but he does it in very UNequal circumstances as well.
I'd "force" it to AJ too. He is the most reliable receiver. Throwing to a triple covered AJ is sometimes the safer throw than throwing to Martin who is very likely to go "oh crap a football."
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Old 03-21-2013   #140
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I have to say I both understand the criticism and like the result better. Carr had a cannon for an arm but it was so frustrating watching him overthrow Bradford and AJ by 5 yards. Yeah, I would rather have the 30 yard completion than the ball bouncing on the field in front of them.

I also think people really under appreciate how difficult it is to chuck a ball into a theoretical pickle barrel which is moving under its own plan while jacking with at least one defender 40 yards down the field while one or more people who intend to hurt you are about to pound you into sand.

No doubt about it, Schaub is not a Staubach or Elway. Those cats are rare.



I'd "force" it to AJ too. He is the most reliable receiver. Throwing to a triple covered AJ is sometimes the safer throw than throwing to Martin who is very likely to go "oh crap a football."
Obviously, anybody who wants to compare Schaub with those guys (including Brady and Rodgers) can do so if he pleases, but why bother?

We already know that Schaub doesn't stack up to them at the moment.

But to say criticize Schaub because of it makes little sense.
This team isn't built (financially) to rely on Schaub as heavily as those other teams relying on the elite QBs.

The extra money goes to AJ to help out Matt Schaub, Foster to help avoiding third and long, and the defense to stop the opponents to give Schaub better chance (short field/turnover, etc.)

We even spent resources on getting ST players for the same reason.
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