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Old 03-20-2013   #21
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

ITT: Fans writing off Brandon Harris after just two seasons. Spending his rookie year on the bench, and his sophomore season in only limited action.

Obviously as of now McCain is the better corner, but to criticize Harris at this point in his career is laughable. Cornerback at the NFL level is one position that takes a lot of development for them to grow, and the best way develop is playing time. All I'm saying is give the guy a chance before you crucify him. There's a reason rookies sign four-year contracts.

On topic: Love the re-sign of McCain. In today's NFL you have to have at least three good corners and nickel corners are becoming a valuable commodity.
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Old 03-20-2013   #22
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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Harris was in his 2nd year in 2012.
Whoops, my bad.
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Old 03-20-2013   #23
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

good signing. you cant have too many good corners in today's game and mccain's a solid #3, as well as bringing a ton of speed to the position. much like others, i didnt see very many positives from harris and wouldnt be comfortable with him being a step away from starting.
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Old 03-20-2013   #24
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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Originally Posted by Mari-OWNED! View Post
ITT: Fans writing off Brandon Harris after just two seasons. Spending his rookie year on the bench, and his sophomore season in only limited action.

Obviously as of now McCain is the better corner, but to criticize Harris at this point in his career is laughable. Cornerback at the NFL level is one position that takes a lot of development for them to grow, and the best way develop is playing time. All I'm saying is give the guy a chance before you crucify him. There's a reason rookies sign four-year contracts.
I'm happy to bring you such amusement. But if a player can't make it in two years (aside from QBs), he's probably not going to make it. Richard Sherman came out of the same draft as Harris (3 rounds later) and is an All Pro. Harris came out of a big time program and wasn't drafted as a project. He doesn't have the tools that are worth waiting on. Harris is a back end of the roster player who the Texans spent a 2nd round pick on. I don't think it's all that funny.
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Old 03-20-2013   #25
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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He doesn't have the tools that are worth waiting on. Harris is a back end of the roster player who the Texans spent a 2nd round pick on. I don't think it's all that funny.
I was quite pleased with what I saw from Harris. I think he's got the tools to be a star.
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Old 03-20-2013   #26
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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I'm happy to bring you such amusement. But if a player can't make it in two years (aside from QBs), he's probably not going to make it. Richard Sherman came out of the same draft as Harris (3 rounds later) and is an All Pro. Harris came out of a big time program and wasn't drafted as a project. He doesn't have the tools that are worth waiting on. Harris is a back end of the roster player who the Texans spent a 2nd round pick on. I don't think it's all that funny.
Rick Smith: 6 drafts, 47 picks, 11 of those picks are CB's, of those 11 picks 2 have been able to be productive (KJ/McCain).

What kills me is we rely on signing FA's to fill our starter spots (JJO, Manning, Pollard, Allen, etc) despite the fact that Rick Smith has drafted CB's 23% of the time.
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Old 03-20-2013   #27
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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I was quite pleased with what I saw from Harris. I think he's got the tools to be a star.
That doesn't surprise me.
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Old 03-20-2013   #28
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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I was quite pleased with what I saw from Harris. I think he's got the tools to be a star.
You should tell him to bring his tools with him to work and stop forgetting them at home in his garage.
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Old 03-20-2013   #29
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

I think the guys that are writing off Harris probably wrote off McCain when he was getting torched by the Jets and everyone else in 2010.
Harris showed marked improvement, and he was actually right close to average by the end of the year. He made a couple of good plays on the ball, and he was pretty much always at least in the area and very close to making a play.

I guess we will never find out now though about Harris.
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Old 03-20-2013   #30
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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Originally Posted by panamamyers View Post
I think the guys that are writing off Harris probably wrote off McCain when he was getting torched by the Jets and everyone else in 2010.
Harris showed marked improvement, and he was actually right close to average by the end of the year. He made a couple of good plays on the ball, and he was pretty much always at least in the area and very close to making a play.

I guess we will never find out now though about Harris.
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Old 03-20-2013   #31
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

I'm thinking that McCain was one of the Texans' FAs who was definitely gone this off season, and now it turns out he's one of the few to resign and return to Houston.
But only 26 and just a 6th round pick back in 2009, this guy is value personified.
Matter of fact, with Glover Quin in the 4th round along with John Casey in the 5th, that 2009 Draft scored for the Texans with several value picks.
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Old 03-20-2013   #32
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

For all the credit we give Wade Phillips for fixing the defense, he, Rick Smith, and Gary Kubiak have done a terrible job in drafting secondary players. Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael, Shiloh Keo in 2011. Sherrick McManis, Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Antwuan Molden are other busts that come to mind. KJ, Glover Quin, and Brice McCain are the only quality secondary players we've hit on.
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Old 03-20-2013   #33
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

He's no longer a value though. They paid him well I am sure.
This is why I am glad they let Quin and Casey go.

You need value on the team. You can't pick guys and get a good value for what you pay them, and then end up paying them all what they are worth on their next contract. Not enough room under the salary cap for that.

They kind of did the same with Owen Daniels to me. They go from being a good value, to being overpaid in a sense. Hopefully letting Casey and Quin walk means they have changed their thinking on this type of stuff.
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Old 03-20-2013   #34
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

I think some of you are exaggerating or living off McCain's 2011 season. It's like I said in another thread, so far everyone in our secondary was good or great last season if we went by the board here yet our secondary got lit up like a Christmas tree. Sorry but that doesn't add up.

McCain had an awful 2012 season. And no, it had little to do with him playing outside. Joseph missed two games (Lions, Titans). Ball started the Lions game and McCain tried to start Titans game but that's the one he got injured and only had like 20 snaps. So no, his bad season was in the slot.

Put it like this:

2011: 45.5 rating, 47.1 catch% 0TD's allowed 2 interceptions 4.9 YAC Avg.
2012: 95.9 rating, 56.4 catch% 3TD's allowed 1 interception 21.5 YAC Avg.

So yeah...he was bad in 2012. It was night and day to 2011. For comparison sake here is Brandon Harris since folks are ripping him left and right but praising McCain:

2012: 95.5 rating, 50.0 catch% 1TD allowed 0 interceptions 17.43 YAC Avg.

Sorry but his numbers aren't too much different than McCain last year. They are actually slightly better and this from a kid that didn't get as many snaps come practice time and faced Brady and Luck twice. Does it mean Harris is better than McCain? No, not necessarily. He was in 2012. But writing him off while praising the other guy's last season is a stretch. It's good we signed McCain but I hope it wasn't too much as he should have to fight for his job if he can't revert to the 2011 form.

The secondary wasn't that good guys and as much as Joseph's injury is brought up no one in the secondary played better than he did except Kareem.
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Old 03-20-2013   #35
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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For all the credit we give Wade Phillips for fixing the defense, he, Rick Smith, and Gary Kubiak have done a terrible job in drafting secondary players. Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael, Shiloh Keo in 2011. Sherrick McManis, Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Antwuan Molden are other busts that come to mind. KJ, Glover Quin, and Brice McCain are the only quality secondary players we've hit on.
I think we have to assign some of the bad secondary drafting to the scouting department. I'm no Rick Smith fan but he is only part of the problem.
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Old 03-20-2013   #36
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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That's because he was playing outside. He was rated as the top slot CB in the league in 2011. Last year he wasn't rated as good because he played outside half the time with Joseph being in and out of the lineup.

Playing Nickel and lining up outside on a #1 or #2 WR is completely different. He's very good at what he does.
^ This.

And let's not throw in the towel on Brandon Harris yet. KJ looked terrible for his first two years too, but then again he was going against better competition on a regular basis.
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Old 03-20-2013   #37
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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McCain had 1 good season in 2011 & had issues of his own last season. He wasn't nearly as good last season as he was in 2011. Prior to 2011 McCain was a complete disaster in 2010 right behind KJ. Based on that, I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to call him 1 of the best based on 1 good season.

Harris got limited playing time last season & still showed some potential. Calling him a bust after very limited playing time is a bit premature & foolish IMO. I also believe it's a bit of a double standard when Kareem played below par for 2 seasons w/ tons of playing time & countless excuses were made for him & here we are throwing Harris under the bus after 2 seasons & very little playing time. That math doesn't add up & it will take more then very limited playing time in 2 seasons before I deem him a bust. If that was the case, Kareem & McCain should've been declared busts & benched a long time ago.
Excellent post! I am shocked that McCain did not move on and with all the wild offers out there for FAs, I thought he was gone. His 2012 reminds me somewhat of Barwin's.
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Old 03-20-2013   #38
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

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I think the guys that are writing off Harris probably wrote off McCain when he was getting torched by the Jets and everyone else in 2010.
Harris showed marked improvement, and he was actually right close to average by the end of the year. He made a couple of good plays on the ball, and he was pretty much always at least in the area and very close to making a play.

I guess we will never find out now though about Harris.
He was also pretty physical with guys like Reggie Wayne, which I think shows toughness & that he's not "starstruck"

If McCain starts over Harris, I'd be surprised.
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Old 03-20-2013   #39
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

I'd rather not carve up Texans but hope all do well. McCain is better than a lower round draft pick or any FA we would get so glad he is on roster.
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Old 03-20-2013   #40
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Default Re: Texans agree to terms with CB McCain

Brice McCain was rated 104 out of 113 CBs overall in 2012 (>25% of team snaps.) His coverage rating is what hurt him, putting him at 107th. His rush, run, and penalty ratings were middle of the pack.

Brice's company down that low in the ratings includes Nnamdi Asomugha and Janoris Jenkins.

Brandon Harris did not meet the >25% of team snaps, so we have a smaller sample size and larger population comparison. He rated 167 out of 217 CBs overall ( no minimum playing time.) Harris was middle of the pack in all areas except penalty, where he rated 211 of 217.

Harris equaled K.J.'s penalties, but K.J. did so in 1030 snaps compared to Harris' 177 snaps.

Ratings courtesy of ProFootballFocus.
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