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Old 03-14-2013   #81
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
An explosive play is considered 20 yds or more. Now you can twist the numbers how you feel,but the tape dont lie. How many times have you seen schaub just drop back on a 7 step drop and throw strikes? What about andre with a step and a half and he has to wait for the ball? They dont show up in the stat sheets, but we've seen it way too many times. You think mike wallace and torrey smith are better wrs than andre? Well both of those guys score more tds than andre because their qb can put it out there without playaction or a windup.
How dare you use your eyes and common sense to determine our qb lacks consistent accuracy on deep throws and hampers this teams explosiveness. Stats tell all. Of course Mike Wallace is better than AJ. What kind of stu..........ya im done being sarcastic, you get the point.
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Old 03-14-2013   #82
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
How dare you use your eyes and common sense to determine our qb lacks consistent accuracy on deep throws and hampers this teams explosiveness. Stats tell all.

I think you're missing the point. The stats say that Matt is inconsistent & inaccurate. They also say that Roethlisberger, Rogers, Brees, Brady, & Manning are just as inconsistent & inaccurate.

What I'm saying, is that we make a mountain out of what is really a mole-hill.

It's not his deep ball, it's his clutch factor.
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Old 03-15-2013   #83
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
Y'all are so busy fighting amongst yourselves that none of y'all took the time to read my post about Dan Pastorini's assessement of Schaub..
I read it. Thought it was insightful from a guy who had the same job and should know what the hell he's talking about.
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Old 03-17-2013   #84
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
another, "handswarmer really needs to go to a Raven's board"

All Infantrycak said was he was surprised about the disparity. That's it. Didn't say he didn't understand the disparity. Didn't say he needed someone to "remind him" that Caldwell is better at coaching the deep ball than Cameron.
Laughable. Mr Internet police.

If you don't want opposing fans here, why not lobby the mods to make a "Members Only" club complete with letter jackets and a monthly circle jerk as part of your paid subscription?

FWIW- infantrycak also didn't say that he DID understand the disparity in Flacco's numbers. A lot of fans of other teams didn't even know we fired our OC after the 13th game of the season.

Lighten up, Francis
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Old 03-19-2013   #85
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

I didn't read all of this post, but it is very apparent that Matt Schaub cant throw the long ball. Hopefully that is what it was pointing out, and not making excuses for his lack of arm strength.
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Old 03-19-2013   #86
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by kingtexan View Post
I didn't read all of this post, but it is very apparent that Matt Schaub cant throw the long ball.
lol!
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Old 03-19-2013   #87
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Where is the stats for how often schaub throws the deep ball off of the bootleg play action where he's throwing into one on one coverage or sometimes to a guy that's wide the hell open?

Schaub is regular. This offense lends itself to generating numbers. He's not doing what big Ben or Brady do. They might do play action at times, but their play action is not nearly the same..their offenses are different.

If those guys were in this offense our team would be deadly.

But instead we are stuck with a qb that's good enough to connect the dots, but can't paint a picture from scratch on an empty canvass.

If you think schaub is good at the longball you're incorrect. Put him in a different offense where he's constantly dealing with safeties over the top instead of this offense where the play design gets receivers in extremely favorable match ups and he's not near this borderline star qb that people believe he is.

Not saying we can't win with schaub, but he's not putting the team on his back and bombing us to wins due to his long ball prowess. Yeah right.
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Old 03-19-2013   #88
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
lol!
Seconded.
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Old 03-19-2013   #89
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Schaub is regular. This offense lends itself to generating numbers. He's not doing what big Ben or Brady do. They might do play action at times, but their play action is not nearly the same..their offenses are different.

If those guys were in this offense our team would be deadly.

But instead we are stuck with a qb that's good enough to connect the dots, but can't paint a picture from scratch on an empty canvass.

If you think schaub is good at the longball you're incorrect.

Bottom line, the stats show those guys aren't any more successful delivering the long ball than Schaub is. IMO, that means we need to change what we think about the long ball, since our current beliefs aren't supported by the facts. I think, if anything, the stats show us that the long ball doesn't affect the game as much as we think it does. Then again, we did win 12 games.

If Ben & Brady's offenses aren't designed to get their players wide open, then Kubiak is a much better coach than I've been giving him credit for.

It's long been my belief that the thing that separates Schaub from the really-good to great QBs, is that they all have the ability to extend plays. One way or another if there isn't a good throw to be had, they'll either buy time getting out of the pocket, allow the play to develop or a receiver to come open, or they'll do what they need to do to pick up a first down.

Coming back from major neck surgery, Peyton Manning rushed the ball 23 times, picking up 2 first downs. His longest carry went for 10 yards.

By contrast, Schaub didn't pick up a rushing first down until the post season. He crossed the LOS 21 times (& I can't remember one of them) for a -9 yards. His longest run was 8 yards (go figure).

At the same time, I've seen our receivers run their routes, then stop & look to see what's happening. Where on other teams it seems everyone knows what to do when the QB leaves the pocket.

I won't lie, When I saw Matt Schaub play in 2009, I said to myself... we got a good one, maybe great. At that time, the only thing separating Schaub from the great QBs was the wins. I figured as soon as "we" start winning, people will think differently of Matt Schaub.

This, isn't what I had in mind though.
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Old 03-19-2013   #90
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post

If Ben & Brady's offenses aren't designed to get their players wide open, then Kubiak is a much better coach than I've been giving him credit for.
Ben and bradys offenses are built around them having more talent at the recieving positions than you can cover. They rely on their talent flat out bearing your db's coverage and having qb's good enough to make plays.

Not that they don't have good play design, but they aren't running plays where the whole offense makes it look like a stretch running plays and then all of a sudden receivers break into their routes.

How many times have you seen schaub on a straight drop back read the coverage, manipulate safeties maybe scramble and escape some pressure and then launch a ball hitting a guy in stride streaking way down the field?

The answer to that may just actually be never.

And if you haven't given kubiak good enough credit as an offensive mind then I don't know what to tell you.

Credit as an overall coach? Not from me. He's about average as a head coach overall.

I don't know qnd haven't thought about the Importance of the long ball being completed at a high rate, but I do know that CIRCUMSTANCES in which schaub delivers his long ball are different than a lot of other qb's based on the design of the offense.
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Old 03-19-2013   #91
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

It's not neccessary to run the play-action out of the ZBS.

The play action is where the QB doesn't take a straight drop back.
He relies on the scheme to draw some defenders up to play the run, and therefore benefit from the scheme.

Great QBs like Montana, Steve Young, Elway flourished in this scheme.

But Manning and Brady got their share of success out of it as well.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?story...56&src=desktop
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Old 03-19-2013   #92
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
It's not neccessary to run the play-action out of the ZBS.

The play action is where the QB doesn't take a straight drop back.
He relies on the scheme to draw some defenders up to play the run, and therefore benefit from the scheme.

Great QBs like Montana, Steve Young, Elway flourished in this scheme.

But Manning and Brady got their share of success out of it as well.

http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?story...56&src=desktop

This thread is about the long ball.

How many of Matt schaubs deep balls come off of straight drop backs compared to other qb's?
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Old 03-19-2013   #93
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
This thread is about the long ball.

How many of Matt schaubs deep balls come off of straight drop backs compared to other qb's?
I don't know, do you?
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Old 03-19-2013   #94
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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I don't know, do you?
I can ballpark it
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Old 03-19-2013   #95
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

On the other hand, I don't think the OP started this thread with what you had in mind Rey.

And BTW, if you would, please read the part about how Brady is one of the master of disguising the hand-off.
This is another piece that gives credit to the QB on the play-action, since the Pats rarely run the ZBS.
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Old 03-19-2013   #96
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

RG III ran a lot of play-action off the zone read at Baylor, and then with the Skins.

Andrew Luck got a lot of receivers wide open at Stanford running the play-action off of a man blocking scheme. (Even in man, you can make the blocking looks similar in both run and pass; and besides, you can always pull different lineman to help disguise the look the same (just different in the base concept.)
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Old 03-19-2013   #97
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
On the other hand, I don't think the OP started this thread with what you had in mind Rey.

And BTW, if you would, please read the part about how Brady is one of the master of disguising the hand-off.
This is another piece that gives credit to the QB on the play-action, since the Pats rarely run the ZBS.
This thread is about the success rates and the amount of longballs being thrown.

And a regular play action is not the same as the zone stretch bootleg playaction we run...

A qb can be awesome at faking a handoff, but when you get an entire defense flowing a certain direction and playing like it's a run it's far more effective than a qb faking a handoff no matter how good the fake is.
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Old 03-19-2013   #98
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
RG III ran a lot of play-action off the zone read at Baylor, and then with the Skins.

Andrew Luck got a lot of receivers wide open at Stanford running the play-action off of a man blocking scheme. (Even in man, you can make the blocking looks similar in both run and pass; and besides, you can always pull different lineman to help disguise the look the same (just different in the base concept.)
You're all over the place.

Not going down this rabbit hole with you.
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Old 03-19-2013   #99
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

Romo and the Cowboys got their share of the PA in the man blocking scheme while Aaron Rodgers got plenty of his off the ZBS quite a few years now.

Of course, Andy Reid is a WC guy, so his QBs always benefited from the scheme; from McNabb to Cunningham to Vick.
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Old 03-19-2013   #100
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Default Re: The Myth of the Long Ball & Matt Schaub

OK, let's stay current.

How much success did Aaron Rodgers get out of the ZBS?

Right here it tells us that he did for a long while (06-12), we just don't know much the Packers strayed away from the ZBS last year (but the Texans did, too.)

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles...t-make-in-2012
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