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Old 03-17-2013   #1201
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Woodson MAY be a decent temporary replacement for Quin in that before his collarbone fracture at St. Louis last year (missed 9 games), he was playing strong safety in the Packers' base defense, then playing the nickel and dime slot positions in sub packages. But his coverage skills are questionable at this point.

I understand what you are saying, but even if we did sign Reed I wouldn't think we would get more than 2 decent years out of him. Smith and the FO counldn't get a deal inked while he was here so I am not getting my hopes up on Reed signing here. Just saying I would rather the FO go out and try to sign at least a serviceable safety instead of waiting for Reed when he may not even sign here anyway.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1202
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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I understand what you are saying, but even if we did sign Reed I wouldn't think we would get more than 2 decent years out of him. Smith and the FO counldn't get a deal inked while he was here so I am not getting my hopes up on Reed signing here. Just saying I would rather the FO go out and try to sign at least a serviceable safety instead of waiting for Reed when he may not even sign here anyway.
I wonder if good things come to the those who wait apply to this? I just hope they don't dick around and its too late
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Old 03-17-2013   #1203
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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GP, great points and analogy. I, for one, had not looked at the situation like this and it makes "real world" sense to me.
Let me offer another, possibly also correct, viewpoint.

The cowboys unwisely overspent, but are also still paying for the "uncapped" year that wasn't. All the owners that didn't go over the phantom cap decided to punish them for spending extra money.

On the Texans side:
  1. overpaid for Schaub and Foster.
  2. gave Andre Johnson a raise when he still had 5 years left on his contract. They made that contract incentive heavy but he freaking hit all the escalators and incentives. Now his cap hit for 2013 is 14.6 million dollars, or more than double than it would have been.
  3. botched the secondary personel moves that resulted in a wasted season, and the need to break the bank bringing in JJo and Manning. The pain is coming this year in the form of Antonio and Joseph's 20 million against the cap.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1204
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Let me offer another, possibly also correct, viewpoint.

The cowboys unwisely overspent, but are also still paying for the "uncapped" year that wasn't. All the owners that didn't go over the phantom cap decided to punish them for spending extra money.

On the Texans side:
  1. overpaid for Schaub and Foster.
  2. gave Andre Johnson a raise when he still had 5 years left on his contract. They made that contract incentive heavy but he freaking hit all the escalators and incentives. Now his cap hit for 2013 is 14.6 million dollars, or more than double than it would have been.
  3. botched the secondary personel moves that resulted in a wasted season, and the need to break the bank bringing in JJo and Manning. The pain is coming this year in the form of Antonio and Joseph's 20 million against the cap.
I think the biggest regret the FO has to have is the Matt Schaub contract one game into the regular season this past year. That was a big goof-up. It came on the heels of Peyton Manning being deified in the media all summer long, so I think they felt that IF Matt had a spectacular game after his first real game against real competition, then it was time to blast the media with news that we've locked up OUR very own QB and that we're just fine without Peyton Manning. That's the whole "loyalty" thing that the entire organization is frankly known for exhibiting too much of in its brief history.

I get the sense that Rick Smith is the coldest guy in the room. I think he's constantly trying to talk sense into both the head coach AND the owner when it comes to this loyalty issue that they have. Does Bob McNair strike anyone here as being a pretty clutch owner 10 years into the Texans' existence? I didn't think so. Great man, no doubt. Spends money on facilities and a great game-day experience, no doubt. Loyal, no doubt. But I think he and Gary are cut from the same cloth when it comes to the concept of letting go. Rick, on the other hand, seems like he's ready and willing to cut and trim and make unpopular moves. Just from watching them in interviews, seeing how people perceive them over the years, you get the sense that Rick is ready to wheel and deal.

We didn't goof up on Foster. I don't think he's as all-world as he's been made out to be. But when he has decent blocking, he gets the job done. He's been severely under-used in the passing game, too. Matt freaking throws the ball to places sometimes that not even an 8-foot tall man is going to pull down, but the times he gets the pass he's doing something with it. I think Foster is our guy at RB. End of story. Had to sign him before his deal ran out, or he would be out of here right now. He'd be on one of the teams who had a bazillion dollars in cap space. Tate and Forsett heading into 2013? No thanks.

Antonio Smith is arguable. He had a down year this past season. But hey, the whole defense did. Right? Right.

Joseph is worth every penny we gave him. The alternative is to put KJ at CB1 and then what would we field as CB2??? I can't think of any player we could have had two years ago, for a CB spot, that would've made our secondary good enough to handle the NFL's best WRs. Money well spent, for a change.

Now we'll have JJ Watt to re-sign. Heh, you guys are going to **** the bed when that deal gets announced. How does that deal not end up breaking us apart like Flacco's deal did to the Ravens??? JJ Watt is the man. And yet we've got all these other really good, really deserving players to pay. Or we lose them.

Success sucks. We've been in business as Texans fans for 10 years, we know nothing of what it's like to go 50 or 60 years without being dominant and then being successful and watching our success cause us to be poor and pitiful again. 10 years as a Texans fan. Two of those 10 years, which are the past two seasons of football, we've won the division and made it to the divisional round each year...and we're paying for it. It happens. Time to quit the bitching and belly-aching and just accept that "Yes, we are going to have make money decisions. Yes, we have to draft like rock stars every year. And yes, we're going to end up sometimes getting a Plan B rather than a Plan A."

Doesn't mean our FO are complete idiots. Does it? Refer back to my rant earlier about how we're an instant gratification society. That's all I got to say.

The problems we have, they're good problems to have. IMO.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1205
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

Personally, if we can pull something close to the Herschel Walker trade, I'll do it.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1206
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

The only reason I'm upset is the Texans FO should have known what it was going to take to get him signed before they sent out for him. Yeah, Andre said he was interested but they should know it comes with a price. It doesn't make a lot of sense to do what they did and not understand what it'll take to get the deal done. U have to sign him at this point even for an extra 2 million if that's what it takes. We can free up money re-structuring.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1207
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

It's the "Houstonian Attitude" ... been scorned so many times and had our hearts ripped from our chests enough to just be happy to compete. God forbid the fanbase actually expects the team to be proactive and appease the fans every once in a while and make the moves that scream "Super Bowl or Bust"!!

We dont have this 'seek and destroy' mindset that many other cities and fans have. We are content just winning division championships and are quick to hang banners for that. As a team they dont have the 'kick em while they're down' mentality that a Belichik team has, often allowing teams that were supposed to be down and out, back into the contest. I've heard that they dont even hang AFC East banners in Foxboro, only Super Bowl banners, thats the mindset I want to have, yet many of my 'bro's' are just happy that they dont suck anymore.

I hate the fact that the rest of the nation views us as country hicks, and IMO sometimes in trades or even personnel decisions I cant help but think how much more that stereotype gets engrained "those dumb Texans" because apart from the respected contributors of this site, I dont read many publications applauding our personnel decisions, I wonder why?
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Old 03-17-2013   #1208
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
The only reason I'm upset is the Texans FO should have known what it was going to take to get him signed before they sent out for him. Yeah, Andre said he was interested but they should know it comes with a price. It doesn't make a lot of sense to do what they did and not understand what it'll take to get the deal done. U have to sign him at this point even for an extra 2 million if that's what it takes. We can free up money re-structuring.
I dunno, due dilligence never hurts, I don't think.

Perhaps, they were looking for the possibility of the Ravens totally revamp that defense by going young ?
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Old 03-17-2013   #1209
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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We didn't goof up on Foster.Tate and Forsett heading into 2013? No thanks.
He was a restricted free agent. You could have put a first round tender for 1/3 of his 2012 contract then franchised him this year for the same we are paying now if he didn't want to make a deal.

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Antonio Smith is arguable. He had a down year this past season. But hey, the whole defense did. Right? Right.
I kinda thought he had an awesome season, I was just pointing out his restructured contract that brought in JJo and Manning is entering it's final year and thus his cap hit is massive. Not to mention he is a bandaid in the same way JJo was. We needed him to cover the amobi okoye bust of a draft pick in that epic 2007 draft class Smith chose.

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Joseph is worth every penny we gave him. The alternative is to put KJ at CB1 and then what would we field as CB2???
JJo is great but he was a "don't fire me move" when Smith botched the secondary and wasted a season. Any kind of a defense gets that 2010 team in the playoffs. The quick fix burns you later though. He came at the cost of Meco and Winston which turned out to be big problems when our ILB depth hit -3 in a hurry last year and our right side blocking was hot garbage. I didn't even mention Mario, lol.

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Success sucks. Two of those 10 years, which are the past two seasons of football, we've won the division and made it to the divisional round each year...and we're paying for it. It happens. Doesn't mean our FO are complete idiots. Does it? Refer back to my rant earlier about how we're an instant gratification society. That's all I got to say. The problems we have, they're good problems to have. IMO.
Other teams seem to have a bit of a longer run before the ship starts listing. After one year in the playoffs we lost KEY players to cap problems. Other teams have a little bit of a longer run before hard choices like this are made.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1210
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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I dunno, due dilligence never hurts, I don't think.

Perhaps, they were looking for the possibility of the Ravens totally revamp that defense by going young ?
Well then make it known ahead of time what we're offering. Its not hard to have a common understanding before he boards the plane.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1211
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Personally, if we can pull something close to the Herschel Walker trade, I'll do it.
The problem with that is the possibility of not hitting on a Herschel Walker.......and hitting on a Ryan Leaf.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1212
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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The problem with that is the possibility of not hitting on a Herschel Walker.......and hitting on a Ryan Leaf.
No, I mean trade JJ Watt for a gazillions 1st and 2nd round picks is what I mean.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1213
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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No, I mean trade JJ Watt for a gazillions 1st and 2nd round picks is what I mean.
No way. I would have to think about giving up watt for Brady let alone a bunch of high draft picks.

Watt is the face of the franchise and arguably the best thing that has happened to us in our existence.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1214
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Well then make it known ahead of time what we're offering. Its not hard to have a common understanding before he boards the plane.
The thing is that Ed Reed doesn't know what the Ravens were willing to offer him.
If Reed already had an offer from Balty, then it would be simple for the Texans.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1215
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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JJo is great but he was a "don't fire me move" when Smith botched the secondary and wasted a season. Any kind of a defense gets that 2010 team in the playoffs. The quick fix burns you later though. He came at the cost of Meco and Winston which turned out to be big problems when our ILB depth hit -3 in a hurry last year and our right side blocking was hot garbage. I didn't even mention Mario, lol.
How is it Rick's fault that Gary hired a guy, Frank Bush, whom Gary waited upon until Frank Bush's contract with the Arizona Cardinals was up??? Gary Kubiak chose Richard Smith, our first d-coord...Gary Kubiak, as has been proven via interviews and reports, also wanted Frank Bush but Bush was tied up at the time with the Cardinals. Once Bush's contract finally concluded, he was brought aboard and assisted Richard Smith until Richard Smith was fired and GARY KUBIAK finally was able to transition Bush into the d-coord role.

NONE of that is on Rick Smith. The bad defense was bad because of incompetency on the coaching level, which means when your foundation is poor anything built upon it will be bad, too, no matter how hard you try.

Rick Smith does not make coaching decisions in terms of employment. I've never read or listened to anything that proves otherwise. Rick is in charge of many things, chief among them is the scouting of players and the attempts to sign them to our team...Gary has made several references, most of which came during an in-camp interview with Gary a season or two ago, in which we learn that often times Rick and the scouting team have a list of players and they help Gary with identifying and eventually signing those players the team determines would fit Gary's needs. Rick is not choosing and signing Gary's assistant coaches, not even the d-coordinators. That's Gary's responsibility, and I'm sure he does have meetings with Bob and Rick when he wants to make a move on those things...but hey, he didn't make a move on firing Frank Bush until his hand was practically forced after 2010. In fact, an interview with Bob McNair reveals that Bob said he wondered if Gary would let his loyalty to his coaches get himself fired in the same way that Capers' loyalty to coaches got Capers fired several years prior. See? Coaching decisions are GARY'S responsibility.

Therefore, sure, Rick is helping to stock the roster according to what the coaches say they want. Lists are made, inquiries to agents are made, tryouts are usually held, and then the team makes a decision. That's normalcy at work. I'm sure each coach stands on the table for guys they demand they have, whenever other personnel might be opposed to those players and conversely wanting a different player. It happens. I can guarantee you the biggest Schaub advocate on this team is the head coach. Period.

All of this is to say this: After 2010, it's my firm belief that Bob McNair was s angry as he had ever been. As dejected as he had ever been. He had had enough. I firmly believe that he sat down with Rick, Gary, whomever else, and they all discussed this thing as passionately as they could. At the end of that scenario, I also firmly believe that Bob and Rick and Gary all three agreed that it was Go For Broke time. Push all the chips into the center of the table, let the payment came due in later seasons if it had to come due, but that we were committed to working as a focused team toward making some radical changes.

Up until then, our biggest moves were (in no particular order):

1. Taking on a slew of Jaguars in an expansion draft scenario that gave us a guy in Boselli who would never see the field of play again. Ever.

2. Drafting a QB that the owner fell in love with because of things non-football related. Obviously. And plus, that's what you do when you have the #1 pick and you're a new team...you pick a QB right out of the gate.

3. So many awful RBs, you cannot even name them all. Stacy Mack, James Allen, Tony Hollings, Jonathan Wells, Wali Lundy, Samkon Gado, Ron Dayne, Chris Brown, the list goes on forever.

4. Ahman Green. Ugh. THAT was heralded as being a really, really BIG move for the Texans. Along with Eric Moulds. We had twice as many pages on this message board about the potential to sign Eric Moulds as we've had for Ed Reed. LOL. Amazing, no?

5. Extended David Carr for an extra year, to see if Kubiak could work with him and rebuild him. That was a Bob McNair move all the way.

6. Philip Buchanon at CB, in a trade with the Raiders. Holy cow, what a travesty that trade ended up being. It was criminal. That's on Casserly all the way.

7. Tried to trade Carr but couldn't, so we had to release him. And the guy trashes us out every chance he got after that. Schaub was the best FA/trade acquisition we had made in years.

But hey, let's talk about the post-2010 decision and how we're "paying for it now." We actually have something to look at for our payments we're making, and that was a joint effort, IMO, between Bob and Gary and Rick.

Of those three, however, I don't see the GM as being the guy that needed the convincing. Bob and Gary are the loyalists. Rick is very lone wolf, do whatever it takes. When players get whacked, it came from Rick's pistol. And the guy isn't upset about that role at all. He relishes it you can see it in him when he speaks about his roles with the team. Neither Bob nor Gary want that blood on their hands. They're culpable, but they're insulated and distanced from it.

Up until 2010, it was a philosophy of "Steady as she goes....stay the course...we'll hit smooth waters SOMEDAY...just don't rock the boat." Now we've got something to honestly maintain and build upon, and people think we've mismanaged the team???????????? I don't get it, I guess.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1216
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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No way. I would have to think about giving up watt for Brady let alone a bunch of high draft picks.

Watt is the face of the franchise and arguably the best thing that has happened to us in our existence.
I understand, but money will be a concern.

If you get a lot of high draft picks from one team, it would be difficult for them to compete in 2-4 years, virtually guaranteeing you with high draft picks.

You will have 2-3 new starters (extra) for a couple of years at lower cost which allow you to spend money on FAs to build a solid team for at least half a decade.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1217
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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The thing is that Ed Reed doesn't know what the Ravens were willing to offer him.
If Reed already had an offer from Balty, then it would be simple for the Texans.
Rvens did the samething to Ray Lewis in 2009- "Go out and find your #, then come back and talk to us" is what Ozzie said.

History repeats itself. Who knows what Ed might do: but one ting I do know is I wouldn't play poker with Ozzie.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1218
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
The thing is that Ed Reed doesn't know what the Ravens were willing to offer him.
If Reed already had an offer from Balty, then it would be simple for the Texans.
Plus, the Ravens hold a trump card in the sense that they can say "Ed, darling, you have the chance to play 1 or 2 more years HERE and retire as a Ravens player. All things equal, this is your home."

I bet the Ravens FO is playing that card real heavy right now. Any team would.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1219
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Plus, the Ravens hold a trump card in the sense that they can say "Ed, darling, you have the chance to play 1 or 2 more years HERE and retire as a Ravens player. All things equal, this is your home."

I bet the Ravens FO is playing that card real heavy right now. Any team would.
I agree.

Also I agree that Rick Smith is pretty solid as a GM.

The rest is up to the coaches (Kubiak, Wade, Marcianno) and the players.

Somehow, if the core players can manage to stay on the field (Mario, Barwin, Schaub, Ryans, Cushing) ; that would help, too.
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Old 03-17-2013   #1220
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Plus, the Ravens hold a trump card in the sense that they can say "Ed, darling, you have the chance to play 1 or 2 more years HERE and retire as a Ravens player. All things equal, this is your home."

I bet the Ravens FO is playing that card real heavy right now. Any team would.
Ed himself might be saying "Ozzie, baby, you drafted me, I went to pro bowls here, I got a ring here, I got a home here; give me an offer I can't refuse? Help a brother out here"
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