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Old 03-16-2013   #1161
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Reed specifically mentioned wanting to play with three former Canes - AJ, Gore or Wayne. The Colts and Niners have both already signed safeties. By reports he is closest to AJ of the three anyway and has flown down here are several occasions to see AJ. I sincerely doubt Reed shares your assessment that AJ is on his last legs either. In fact, I would bet all the DB's AJ torched for 1598 yds last season would think people claiming AJ is done are in lala land.
If Reed is on his last legs as much as AJ is, then Reed deserves 7 mil atleast.

Sign Reed Rick.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1162
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Reed specifically mentioned wanting to play with three former Canes - AJ, Gore or Wayne. The Colts and Niners have both already signed safeties. By reports he is closest to AJ of the three anyway and has flown down here are several occasions to see AJ. I sincerely doubt Reed shares your assessment that AJ is on his last legs either. In fact, I would bet all the DB's AJ torched for 1598 yds last season would think people claiming AJ is done are in lala land.
Dude, he isn't about to come here just because AJ is here. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. Sure they may be really good friends and I've heard them say that and all that jizz. I've heard several other players from Miami say the same thing about how great it would be to come play with AJ many times. Yet, none of these guys go out of their way to come here. It's all smoke and mirrors. Sure, I had a buddy that came and interviewed at my company about a year ago. He said he really didn't want to work there, but he'd love to work at the same company as me. He got offered the job, but still didn't take it, because he had other options that were a little better and the money wasn't better. As much as we both wanted to work together, he wasn't about to take a position here when it wasn't an upgrade or a better situation for him.

At the end of the day football players move to other teams for two things.

A. More money and a bigger pay day.
B. One last good shot at a ring.

Now option A probably isn't going to fit because I don't think the Texans are going to pay him significantly more then what he will be offered by other teams. Even if they wanted to, I don't think they can.

And for option B, I don't think that Reed will view the Texans as some big time contender for next season due to Schaub being the QB here. It's a good team to go to and all, but with other teams like the Niners being involved and going after him, I don't see why he would rather come here. Andre Johnson may be his buddy, but players don't go to other teams just because they have some college buddy over there when they have better opportunities.

If this AJ friendship was such a factor, he would have already signed and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1163
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Dude, he isn't about to come here just because AJ is here. Sorry, but I'm not buying that. Sure they may be really good friends and I've heard them say that and all that jizz. I've heard several other players from Miami say the same thing about how great it would be to come play with AJ many times. Yet, none of these guys go out of their way to come here. It's all smoke and mirrors. Sure, I had a buddy that came and interviewed at my company about a year ago. He said he really didn't want to work there, but he'd love to work at the same company as me. He got offered the job, but still didn't take it, because he had other options that were a little better and the money wasn't better. As much as we both wanted to work together, he wasn't about to take a position here when it wasn't an upgrade or a better situation for him.

At the end of the day football players move to other teams for two things.

A. More money and a bigger pay day.
B. One last good shot at a ring.

Now option A probably isn't going to fit because I don't think the Texans are going to pay him significantly more then what he will be offered by other teams. Even if they wanted to, I don't think they can.

And for option B, I don't think that Reed will view the Texans as some big time contender for next season due to Schaub being the QB here. It's a good team to go to and all, but with other teams like the Niners being involved and going after him, I don't see why he would rather come here. Andre Johnson may be his buddy, but players don't go to other teams just because they have some college buddy over there when they have better opportunities.

If this AJ friendship was such a factor, he would have already signed and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Niners dropped out and Colts are less contenders than we are. Id even put Baltimore behind us with all their departures. Were HIS best option.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1164
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade View Post
If only you knew what I do you'd jump for joy right now. I'll just say that I hope you like Ed Reed, Bernard Pollard and Eric Winston. There's going to be a trifecta signing going down tomorrow. I think the Texans are positioning themselves nicely well before the draft. Enjoy the evening guys. Let's call it a Friday of champions here in Houston!
How dumb do you feel? Insert foot in mouth LMAO, that will teach you to "predict" things.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1165
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I'm amazed at people's thinking.

Why the crap would you offer Ed Reed a larger amount right out of the gate and immediately restructure AJ's deal when Ed was just visiting??? WHY?!?!?!

This is so freaking simple, if you'll let it be simple! LOL.

What if by a stroke of luck Ed waltzes in and his advisors are good with $5.5? Shazaam! AJ doesn't have to re-structure for Ed's deal...which means he can re-structure for another FA if we need him to.

Why does everyone assume AJ and the FO were supposed to have all this done in advance of Reed's visit? It's like people are inventing ways to blame everyone for not satisfying their whims.

How about some old-fashioned patience and measured negotiations.

Do you think Ed Reed would've wanted AJ, his friend, to do all that ahead of time anyways? That'd be awkward.

Want to have a contingency plan in place ahead of time? Great. But even then, do you want AJ feeling tempted to send a quick text to Ed saying how he's got the green light to ask for $6 or $7 since AJ would know the Texans plans to tackle a re-structure if Ed leaves without a Texans' $5.5 initial deal?

The idea to have everything with AJ worked out ahead of time or even discussed with AJ ahead of time is flawed from a realistic standpoint.

You make your lowest offer you can, you receive a counter-offer, THEN you work out behind the scenes if you want to re-work ANYTHING to get it signed.

This is why many people should never attempt to run business operations in real life. You'd get fleeced.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1166
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
Niners dropped out and Colts are less contenders than we are. Id even put Baltimore behind us with all their departures. Were HIS best option.
I think you are underestimating the Colts a bit. They have added some decent pieces after winning 11 games, which was only 1 behind the Texans. That being said, based on the moves thus far the Colts could easily make a run at the division this season if the Texans don't improve at some of the positions where players were lost this offseason. Assuming the Colts are not contenders & the Texans are seems a bit shortsighted based on the current state of each team imo.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1167
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
I think you are underestimating the Colts a bit. They have added some decent pieces after winning 11 games, which was only 1 behind the Texans. That being said, based on the moves thus far the Colts could easily make a run at the division this season if the Texans don't improve at some of the positions where players were lost this offseason. Assuming the Colts are not contenders & the Texans are seems a bit shortsighted based on the current state of each team imo.
Nope, Colts were lucky and rode an emotional high, they were severely outscored by opponents last season. It was a fluke. They will be at BEST 8-8 next season.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1168
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I'm amazed at people's thinking.

Why the crap would you offer Ed Reed a larger amount right out of the gate and immediately restructure AJ's deal when Ed was just visiting??? WHY?!?!?!

This is so freaking simple, if you'll let it be simple! LOL.

What if by a stroke of luck Ed waltzes in and his advisors are good with $5.5? Shazaam! AJ doesn't have to re-structure for Ed's deal...which means he can re-structure for another FA if we need him to.

Why does everyone assume AJ and the FO were supposed to have all this done in advance of Reed's visit? It's like people are inventing ways to blame everyone for not satisfying their whims.

How about some old-fashioned patience and measured negotiations.

Do you think Ed Reed would've wanted AJ, his friend, to do all that ahead of time anyways? That'd be awkward.

Want to have a contingency plan in place ahead of time? Great. But even then, do you want AJ feeling tempted to send a quick text to Ed saying how he's got the green light to ask for $6 or $7 since AJ would know the Texans plans to tackle a re-structure if Ed leaves without a Texans' $5.5 initial deal?

The idea to have everything with AJ worked out ahead of time or even discussed with AJ ahead of time is flawed from a realistic standpoint.

You make your lowest offer you can, you receive a counter-offer, THEN you work out behind the scenes if you want to re-work ANYTHING to get it signed.

This is why many people should never attempt to run business operations in real life. You'd get fleeced.
I run a business operation and I would figure out what I think Reed would be worth and I would tell his agent that's my offer take it or leave it. But I wouldn't play the low balling shell game/offer/counter offer you speak of. This is just the way I operate. If Reed doesn't agree to my price I walk away. But the price would be at or above market for a HOF like Reed.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1169
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
At the end of the day football players move to other teams for two things.
People, including football players, particularly those who are multi-millionaires who have already achieved the pinnacle of their sport do things for all sorts of reasons.

Quote:
And for option B, I don't think that Reed will view the Texans as some big time contender for next season due to Schaub being the QB here.
I doubt AJ and Reed share your assessment of Schaub. AJ has had several opportunities to bail and hasn't. Reed has watched Schaub bring the Texans back from down 21 pts to tie the Ravens and watched the Texans shellack the Ravens in their SB year with Schaub at the helm. I seriously doubt he holds the opinion Schaub can't get the job done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I run a business operation and I would figure out what I think Reed would be worth and I would tell his agent that's my offer take it or leave it. But I wouldn't play the low balling shell game/offer/counter offer you speak of. This is just the way I operate. If Reed doesn't agree to my price I walk away. But the price would be at or above market for a HOF like Reed.
Low balling no, but take it or leave it rarely works as an initial bid either. It's one thing when you are hiring a secretary and another when you are talking about matters like this. The Texans had talked numbers with Reed before he flew down here so he was comfortable with the ballpark being discussed and so were they.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1170
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by amazing80 View Post
Nope, Colts were lucky and rode an emotional high, they were severely outscored by opponents last season. It was a fluke. They will be at BEST 8-8 next season.
That's interesting that you call them flukes & that's what many referred to the Texans as towards the end of the season & into the playoffs. In fact, the word "frauds" was used quite often by different sources to describe the Texans. I can't say the team looks better so far this offseason.

I think the colts will be tougher after this offseason even if some considered the last a fluke.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1171
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
The back end ofthe contract should be ignored- it will be re-structured after year 3 so it doesn't really count. Here are the total numbers forthe three years that count-

Year Salary Bonus Options Cap hit
2013 $1mill $5mill $0 $6.8mill

2014 $6mill $5.8mill $3mill $14.8mill

2015 $4mill $5.8mill $4.75mill $14.55mill
I understand that. But the last three years are used to calculate his cap hit. Unless you're dividing $29M by 3 & not 6.

But they are taking his cap numbers adding them to the whole bonus & saying he will earn that $51M in two years, $62M in three years.

They're counting part of his bonus twice. They need to separate the prorated amount from his cap number to get his "salary" then add that to the $29M & they can say he will have been compensated, whatever.

If the $51M (in the first two years) & the $62M (in the first three years)
numbers are right, then those cap numbers can't be right.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1172
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
That's interesting that you call them flukes & that's what many referred to the Texans as towards the end of the season & into the playoffs. In fact, the word "frauds" was used quite often by different sources to describe the Texans. I can't say the team looks better so far this offseason.

I think the colts will be tougher after this offseason even if some considered the last a fluke.
Erik Walden? Greg Toler? Gosder Cherilus? We're supposed to be shaking in our boots? Seriously? LaRon Landry is the only decent FA they signed and he isn't even that great in pass coverage. He is also injury prone.

Scored 357 points (22.3/g), 18th of 32 in the NFL.
Allowed 387 points (24.2/g), 21st.
Differential of -30 points (-1.9/g), 21st.
Expected W-L: 7.2-8.8.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/clt/2012.htm

Luck also had a 76 qb rating last year. Wilson and RG3 were a good deal better than him as rookies. Do I think he will improve? Yes, without a doubt. But he is not a world beater yet.

Furthermore, Texans were not much of a fluke last year.

Scored 416 points (26.0/g), 8th of 32 in the NFL.
Allowed 331 points (20.7/g), 9th.
Differential of 85 points (5.3/g), 8th.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/htx/2012.htm

Last edited by greekdbag; 03-16-2013 at 04:06 PM. Reason: adding
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Old 03-16-2013   #1173
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

Ed Reed to me at least, seems to like the drama a bit. Last year for instance the guy retired and unretired didnt he? or at least he was making the insinuation that he was. Fast forward and I cant be too surprised at the outcome thus far. Im wondereing how much 'recruitment' ability Reed has and if he would be trying to get any other guys interested in coming here for one last hurrah. If Reggie Wayne was available I think it would be interesting.

I think he will sign, when enough suspense has been built up, plus didnt he tweet (jokingly im sure) that he would make the decision 'ala Lebron'?
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Old 03-16-2013   #1174
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

The Niners signed another safety, so at the least they might be out of the running.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1175
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by handswarmer View Post
I am not a capologist but Islept in a Holiday Inn last night...LOL

Serious question: how does Joe have all the leverage now?
Because at the end of three years, Baltimore will very much want to avoid the $28+ Million cap hit that comes in year four (and they can't afford to cut him). Joe is free to either ask for ridiculous money for extending, or very happily continue on with the contract and the $18 Million he's scheduled to collect in 2016.

And if I'm wrong, and the Ravens do decide they can afford the $25+ million in dead money that results from cutting him, then I'm guessing Joe will be okay taking the $62 Million he's gotten over the past three seasons and seeing what the market is for a quarterback who's still pretty comfortably in his prime.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1176
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Default

The determining factor for Ed Reed to play here are as follows:
How he view the city of Houston.
How the city view him?
Is it livable for him and his family?
How will the fans embrace him?
What does the local media thinks?
Is his presence marketable in this town?

Too many factors other than a little more money, playing with Dre, and another SB run.

And the reason he left town w/o signing is pure curiosity. The man simply wants to know how much desirability he has left from other teams and cities. How long will the red carpet rolled out from his feet? How long can he smoke that victory cigar before he coughs? This is his extended post Super Bowl celebration. Let the man enjoy his moments.

Vanity. Definitely my favorite sins.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1177
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
I run a business operation and I would figure out what I think Reed would be worth and I would tell his agent that's my offer take it or leave it. But I wouldn't play the low balling shell game/offer/counter offer you speak of. This is just the way I operate. If Reed doesn't agree to my price I walk away. But the price would be at or above market for a HOF like Reed.
Texans have fixed income, steelbtexan. It's called a CAP. It's fixed. Go over it, you pay a penalty (ask Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder).

To work within the cap, the front office must account for a crazy amount of things that may or may not happen.

It's not Low-balling, as you say, to offer what you WANT to pay a player. You're making an evaluation and your offer reflects several things: (1a) What you'd like to pay, (1b) what you'll pay because you are flush with tons of cash to spend and have to get rid of it due to new CBA rules, (2) what you cannot pay no matter what, (3) what you cannot pay unless you reorganize other expenses (re-structuring contracts) (4) what the player is worth on the market given many variables, and (5) incentives you think you can offer that other potential teams cannot offer to that same player. That's just 5, but I bet there's 200 more I'm not thinking of.

On the flip side, the player has his own evaluation of the process. (1) What am I worth?, (2) What could I get anywhere else in the NFL?, (3) Would this potential employer I'm meeting with be a good place to put my efforts into?, and about 200 other things that are probably more important than that.

So look, these two sides had to come together. It's not like they meet once he gets off the plane, shake hands at Reliant, and walk into a room and sign a contract. That's what our fantasy situation would be: Dude arrives, dude is excited, dude signs...press conference at 3 p.m. that day! That's what's going on with a lot of people's interpretation of the events. People have a problem in today's culture with WAITING. What are we, a Microwave Minute Society? This is what we've become in America: "Hey, I got a meal ready in under a minute here with my own microwave....why would it take 15 minutes for my pizza to arrive? That's horrible. I want my money back. You could have had it here in 12 minutes, easily." Bitching over 3 minutes. Complaining that things take too long. Demanding instant gratification.

Look, all in all you've got to realize that this isn't like signing a 3rd string OT named Andrew Gardner. The top of the crop takes longer to harvest, especially when you're up against the cap. Teams way under the cap? They can overpay and get a deal signed faster. This goes back to item 1b in my first list above.

Acting like we should have been prepared to pay Ed's supposed asking price, before he even arrived in Houston!, and that AJ should have had everything lined up with the front office before Ed's visit, I don't get it. Does anybody else think that way? Speak up. How can you, as a team in the NFL, go ahead and say "We'll pay you pay top dollar...just come down and put your name on this contract!"...I mean, why wouldn't you have the obligatory face-to-face meeting, get to know one another like they DID, by the way, and THEN discuss terms like everyone else does??? It's a negotiation, for pete's sake. It's a discussion, a meeting, and then things continue onward or they don't.

So now there's wind of AJ maybe reaching out and saying he'll do what it takes to get Ed Reed here. Had that all happened prior to the Ed Reed visit, Ed walks in and it's 100% guarantee that Ed gets every dime he wants. Hell, he might ask for MORE on top of what he was originally going to ask since he knows the original amount he had in mind is already there waiting for him via AJ's re-structure.

This is a business. Some teams dick around and treat it like Madden video game (i.e. Jerry and Daniel of the Cowboys and Redskins) flinging cash and throwing caution to the wind, contract structures and ramifications be damned! And some teams, like ours, are working within the cap and taking this thing slowly and methodically. At the end of the day, I just think people are too damn impatient about it all. It ought to happen and if it didn't happen then somebody in the FO is a boob. That's bad analysis.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1178
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

Patriots signed safety Adrian Wilson, so that's another potential player out of the Ed Reed sweepstakes? I like Wilson and he's one of the most underrated players in the NFL.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...agent-confirms
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Old 03-16-2013   #1179
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
That's interesting that you call them flukes & that's what many referred to the Texans as towards the end of the season & into the playoffs. In fact, the word "frauds" was used quite often by different sources to describe the Texans. I can't say the team looks better so far this offseason.

I think the colts will be tougher after this offseason even if some considered the last a fluke.
Besides the Bengals, we definitely looked like a team that didn't belong in the playoffs settling for FGs and not scoring during an entire quarter.

This literally needs to be the best draft in our team's history with the way our off season is going. It wouldn't be a bold prediction at all to say the Colts could win the division.
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Old 03-16-2013   #1180
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Default Re: Ed Reed to visit Texans

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Originally Posted by bOODRO87 View Post
Besides the Bengals, we definitely looked like a team that didn't belong in the playoffs settling for FGs and not scoring during an entire quarter.

This literally needs to be the best draft in our team's history with the way our off season is going. It wouldn't be a bold prediction at all to say the Colts could win the division.
the colts already have a huge advantage in winning the division due to the fact that they have the best quarterback in the division.

factor in all these player turnovers, the colts have a strong chance at winning the division.

In fact, i favor them to win based on how our offseason has gone.
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