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Old 03-16-2013   #21
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

How many times are we going to go the "Andre will restructure" well in order to "win now"? How many times has Andre restructured already?

Maybe I'm missing something, but, is Ed Reed THAT important? I would have given my left testicle for him two years ago. But, now? I don't know. Does he still have any gas left? And, is whatever gas that's left worth it for Andre to restructure (which, as others have said, will only push these issues down the road, which will be worse in the long run)?

I'm not one of those "panic" people, and in no way am I panicking in this case. But sometimes I really don't understand this team.
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Old 03-16-2013   #22
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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
C'mon...a history of restructuring deals? I guess technically you are correct since they have restructured a deal or 2 in the past, but Smith & the FO are far from being known to work all angles & create space were space didn't seem to exist like many other FO's whom somehow continue to add pieces as opposed to losing more & more yr in & yr out. These types of moves should've been made early on if feasible & yet they haven't & we have a player saying he is willing....yet hasn't happened as players keep leaving town. Maybe you ought to send the "THINK" memo to Smith quickly because there isn't much getting done & in its current state this team isn't getting better. Thats something to "THINK" about.
It's more than "a deal or two."

No big deal, man. But all of us on here call out one another on stuff like this. I even get called out on stuff.

The Texans, like any other team, are always thinking of every avenue to save money to then spend in improving the team.

The claim was that AJ reached out when really our front office should have done that first. Do you think that the front office announces any and all communication they have with players and agents? What is gained by publicly announcing you've asked AJ to restructure??? Not only is nothing gained, but you actually lose leverage in early stages of negotiations!

Think.
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Old 03-16-2013   #23
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
How many times are we going to go the "Andre will restructure" well in order to "win now"? How many times has Andre restructured already?

Maybe I'm missing something, but, is Ed Reed THAT important? I would have given my left testicle for him two years ago. But, now? I don't know. Does he still have any gas left? And, is whatever gas that's left worth it for Andre to restructure (which, as others have said, will only push these issues down the road, which will be worse in the long run)?

I'm not one of those "panic" people, and in no way am I panicking in this case. But sometimes I really don't understand this team.
After rewatching all 4 Ravens play-offs games, I would say that Ed Reed still has plenty left in his tank.

The Texans don't need AJ to restructure to ink Reed to a contract that cost somewhere between 5-6M, but if they want to acquire another FA, like a number 2 receiver, then they will need to.

There are other things they can do, for example, if they like The Ninja enough, they can extend his contract for a couple of years (at a lower rate than his current contract), gives him some money up front (about $2-3M) to get the cap space.

It doesn't make the burden much heavier.

Once they win the SB next year, they can cut Schaub to make everybody double-happy and still have plenty to redo Cushing's contract.
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Old 03-16-2013   #24
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
It's more than "a deal or two."

No big deal, man. But all of us on here call out one another on stuff like this. I even get called out on stuff.

The Texans, like any other team, are always thinking of every avenue to save money to then spend in improving the team.

The claim was that AJ reached out when really our front office should have done that first. Do you think that the front office announces any and all communication they have with players and agents? What is gained by publicly announcing you've asked AJ to restructure??? Not only is nothing gained, but you actually lose leverage in early stages of negotiations!

Think.
A deal or 2 was an exaggeration because it doesn't hapoen that often w/ the Texans. Last year consisted of 3, if I recall correctly, which included a restructure for Manning & 2 pay cuts to Nolan & Walter. Not ground breaking FO stuff there, but it does qualify. Not all teams announce their intentions to ask players to restructure, but it is done. As recently as Elway saying to the media that it needed to happen w/ Dumervil before yesterdays actions. So it does get announced by some. My point was AJ should not have to reach out. If feasible & helps the team then that option should've been explored beforehand & been done. The FO should know & exhaust its options BEFORE allowing players to continue to leave town. That doesn't seem to be the case here. That was my point.

I think the big difference between us on this is the faith we have in the Texans FO. I don't have much faith in Smith & its not improving, while you seem to have some left in you. The being called out on difference of opinion is not a problem. So no worries there, that's part of it. But you can't honestly say this team is better in its current state based on Smith's recent actions or lack thereof.
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Old 03-16-2013   #25
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

Most restructures (including every restructure Andre's ever done) consist of paying the upcoming salary above the minimum, as a bonus in one lump sum, and then dividing that sum evenly over the years remaining on the contract for cap purposes. If it involves a pay cut, that's typically a known fact (see Kevin Walter in 2012), and believe me, players don't initiate that conversation.

While I'm guessing most on this board are not "under contract", it would be the equivalent of your employer coming to you and saying we'd like to pay you 80% of next year's salary this minute, with the remaining 20% being paid out like you normally get your salary. And the best part is that it makes it more expensive for your employer to get rid of you, so you'll have that going for you down the road.

The reality is that for these type of restructures, there's actually a benefit to the player, and a very real potential long-term cost to the team for doing them. Best case scenario, the team creates current cap room and uses up future cap room (ie: break even). Worst case, they create new guaranteed money that could either become dead money down the road, or force them to keep someone they'd rather not because it's too expensive to cut them.
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Old 03-16-2013   #26
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Old 03-16-2013   #27
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
How many times are we going to go the "Andre will restructure" well in order to "win now"? How many times has Andre restructured already?

Maybe I'm missing something, but, is Ed Reed THAT important? I would have given my left testicle for him two years ago. But, now? I don't know. Does he still have any gas left? And, is whatever gas that's left worth it for Andre to restructure (which, as others have said, will only push these issues down the road, which will be worse in the long run)?

I'm not one of those "panic" people, and in no way am I panicking in this case. But sometimes I really don't understand this team.
I don't think Ed Reed is that important, BUT I do think filling a hole or 2 on the team with quality players is. If its Reed, then so be it but I think something needs to be done because 1 draft class will not fill all the needs w/ instant quality starters or at least the odds are against it & most of Smith's success stories have been players that have developed as opposed to instant success. I actually believe its time to go to plan B & give players such as Huff & Mikell a call. They could fill the gap & possibly be cheaper. The quicker the better, imo, because a lot of time has been wasted on Reed & the other players surely aren't waiting on the Texans.
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Old 03-16-2013   #28
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

If Andre restructures and that leads to issues in re-signing Cushing and JJ Watt in the future, then don't do it.
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Old 03-16-2013   #29
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by ChampionTexan View Post
Most restructures (including every restructure Andre's ever done) consist of paying the upcoming salary above the minimum, as a bonus in one lump sum, and then dividing that sum evenly over the years remaining on the contract for cap purposes. If it involves a pay cut, that's typically a known fact (see Kevin Walter in 2012), and believe me, players don't initiate that conversation.

While I'm guessing most on this board are not "under contract", it would be the equivalent of your employer coming to you and saying we'd like to pay you 80% of next year's salary this minute, with the remaining 20% being paid out like you normally get your salary. And the best part is that it makes it more expensive for your employer to get rid of you, so you'll have that going for you down the road.

The reality is that for these type of restructures, there's actually a benefit to the player, and a very real potential long-term cost to the team for doing them. Best case scenario, the team creates current cap room and uses up future cap room (ie: break even). Worst case, they create new guaranteed money that could either become dead money down the road, or force them to keep someone they'd rather not because it's too expensive to cut them.
Back in the early days of free agency, I believe it was unheard of for a player to play out the portion of his contract where he was due a large sum of money, the $16M+ Mario received his last two seasons here, the $12M Dumerville was supposed to get this year.

I don't know what to think about Andre's $15M cap number. I'm pretty sure much of that is already pro rated from earlier years. I'm not sure that restructuring again would help us as much as you'd think. Maybe only save us $3M & not $8M or $10M.

But yeah, I'm sure the Texans have already talked to a number of players about restructuring if needed.
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Old 03-16-2013   #30
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

Restructure Schaub down to 0$. That should give us some wiggle room
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Old 03-16-2013   #31
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
My point was AJ should not have to reach out. If feasible & helps the team then that option should've been explored beforehand & been done. The FO should know & exhaust its options BEFORE allowing players to continue to leave town. That doesn't seem to be the case here. That was my point.
Context is important and we only know a little of it. It is entirely plausible the Texans believe a fair max value for Reed is $6 mil and that they already had that money available so there was no need to ask for a restructure. Remember AJ was actively involved in this. AJ asks how the negotiations are going with Reed and they tell him we are still a mil apart and AJ says heck I'll restructure to close that gap. That isn't a lack of planning thing. Any GM would be stupid to walk into a negotiation with no upper limit on what they wanted to spend.
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Old 03-16-2013   #32
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Context is important and we only know a little of it. It is entirely plausible the Texans believe a fair max value for Reed is $6 mil and that they already had that money available so there was no need to ask for a restructure. Remember AJ was actively involved in this. AJ asks how the negotiations are going with Reed and they tell him we are still a mil apart and AJ says heck I'll restructure to close that gap. That isn't a lack of planning thing. Any GM would be stupid to walk into a negotiation with no upper limit on what they wanted to spend.
You are correct. Context is key & we know only a small portion of it, but my point was not just for signing Reed but creating space to sign others as well. That's why I mentioned "players" as opposed to player. If they truly wanted room to wiggle to resign players such as Quin, Barwin, & Casey then the FO should've already reached out to certain players & at least have accomplished 1 or 2 task to create space & retain or sign players. Being that nothing has truly happened as far restructures or extentions & players continue leave as opposed to staying then it does not seem Smith is accomplishing much. The same cannot be said about others such as the Pats, Broncos, & even the Colts. They have all seemingly gotten better as it seems the Texans have gotten worse. My concern goes beyond just signing Reed.
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Old 03-16-2013   #33
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
You are correct. Context is key & we know only a small portion of it, but my point was not just for signing Reed but creating space to sign others as well. That's why I mentioned "players" as opposed to player. If they truly wanted room to wiggle to resign players such as Quin, Barwin, & Casey then the FO should've already reached out to certain players & at least have accomplished 1 or 2 task to create space & retain or sign players. Being that nothing has truly happened as far restructures or extentions & players continue leave as opposed to staying then it does not seem Smith is accomplishing much. The same cannot be said about others such as the Pats, Broncos, & even the Colts. They have all seemingly gotten better as it seems the Texans have gotten worse. My concern goes beyond just signing Reed.
Apparently they didn't think it was worth restructuring anyone to resign those players. I am not in favor of restructuring just to create space unless there is a perceived specific need for it. I am just more patient about this. I'll judge it at the end.
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Old 03-16-2013   #34
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Apparently they didn't think it was worth restructuring anyone to resign those players. I am not in favor of restructuring just to create space unless there is a perceived specific need for it. I am just more patient about this. I'll judge it at the end.
Although the one guy I thought they would mess with was Antonio. I thought they would re-sign him (lower his cap this year) and extend his deal 2 seasons.
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Old 03-16-2013   #35
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
While I do think Andre is an unselfish person, restructures aren't an act of generosity when it pays the player more money up front. This is why I'm hoping we don't spend too much money in free agency. It'd be nice to get some guaranteed money off the books to pursue Cushing and Watt.
Ready to throw in the towel in the season then just because we have other guys to re-sign in other seasons? What sense does that make then? With that approach we'd have to do it every season because there will always be guys to re-sign.
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Old 03-16-2013   #36
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Ready to throw in the towel in the season then just because we have other guys to re-sign in other seasons? What sense does that make then? With that approach we'd have to do it every season because there will always be guys to re-sign.
LOL I think you're taking way too far OR you don't fully understand the cap. Most deals are back loaded, we have a lot of contracts already getting ready to EXPLODE in value (Matt, Andre, JJo, SMith etc) and if we keep re-structuring their deals eventually we will owe 20 million for someone (like Andre) and then we will be handicapped in our ability to sign Cushing and Watt and guys will be cut (like Winston and Ryans were). Its a very complex system that got really tight the last 2 years thats why so many teams cut players. Notice MOST of the teams spending money sucked for a long time (some are good now) and the great players they have are young and haven't gotten their full contracts (Niners, Lions, Chiefs). Those teams will struggle in a few years when it comes time to keep their great young talent.
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Old 03-16-2013   #37
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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Originally Posted by the wonger need food View Post
With the Texans up against the cap and AJ wanting a championship, it appears that he has offered to restructure his contact again to relieve some of the roughly $15M his salary counts this year.


Per Randy Harvey...

https://twitter.com/randyharvey/stat...75035557396480
this is utter BS. in fact this whole taking pay cuts is freaking unconstitutional and its a travesty that the nfl players union is getting screwed over because demaurice smith is a sheep in wolves clothing.

nfl players are getting screwed over and they need to redo their deal. the nfl is the #1 sport in america yet nfl players dont have guaranteed contracts and they are always taking pay cuts.

If anybody needs to restructure their contract its matt schaub.
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Old 03-16-2013   #38
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

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this is utter BS. in fact this whole taking pay cuts is freaking unconstitutional and its a travesty that the nfl players union is getting screwed over because demaurice smith is a sheep in wolves clothing.

nfl players are getting screwed over and they need to redo their deal. the nfl is the #1 sport in america yet nfl players dont have guaranteed contracts and they are always taking pay cuts.

If anybody needs to restructure their contract its matt schaub.
Dre has restructured his contract more than once. He never took a pay cut. He wouldn't be taking one this time either.

Restructurings usually aren't pay cuts - or if they are, it's made clear that a reduction is part of it.
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Old 03-16-2013   #39
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
this is utter BS. in fact this whole taking pay cuts is freaking unconstitutional and its a travesty that the nfl players union is getting screwed over because demaurice smith is a sheep in wolves clothing.

nfl players are getting screwed over and they need to redo their deal. the nfl is the #1 sport in america yet nfl players dont have guaranteed contracts and they are always taking pay cuts.

If anybody needs to restructure their contract its matt schaub.
Regular everyday people don't sign contracts for their job either

"Son welcome to Walmart we are gonna sign u to a 3 year deal at 25000 a year with no money guaranteed and no signing bonus"

Give me a damn break..... NFL players got it so hard haha

Dude in the real world we don't get contracts they can fire us anyway they want, but ohhh these poor nfl players in making millions a year. Get real dude
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Old 03-16-2013   #40
infantrycak
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Default Re: Dre offers to restructure... again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
this is utter BS. in fact this whole taking pay cuts is freaking unconstitutional and its a travesty that the nfl players union is getting screwed over because demaurice smith is a sheep in wolves clothing.

nfl players are getting screwed over and they need to redo their deal. the nfl is the #1 sport in america yet nfl players dont have guaranteed contracts and they are always taking pay cuts.

If anybody needs to restructure their contract its matt schaub.
Nice job of displaying a lack of NFL knowledge. Restructures benefit the players. They get their money earlier. They convert salary into bonus which is paid immediately and then is spread across the years of the contract lowering this year's cap hit (but increasing it in later years). Otherwise that was a great rant.
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