AFC South Team needs according to PFF

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Brian Billick yes
Mike Holmgren yes
Lovie Smith yes
Nick Saban Yes

All of these guys have accomplished more than Gary. Holmgren runs the WC offense and Billick runs a version of it.

But it really doesn't matter because until BoB dies Gary will be HC because it would be to traumatic to make changes. (Sarcasm///)

BTW, Gary did a great job this yr playing with an injured QB with very little on the right side of the OL and an injured defense.

I like Billick but didn't include him as, like TK said, I thought he was happy being a TV talking head.

I like Holmgren too, anyone who can take Hasselbeck to the Super Bowl, might just be able to find a way to take Schaub... ...or, since he has no ties to Schaub, cut bait and find his successor.

Lovie....? If we lose Wade, I could see him coming in as DC but not head coach. Lovie ain't exactly known for having wide open offenses so if you hate it when Kubiak "goes turtle", Lovie will drive you right off the ledge.

I just flat don't trust Saban any farther than I could throw Albert Haynesworth.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I like Billick but didn't include him as, like TK said, I thought he was happy being a TV talking head.

I don't like HC's who can't build what they are supposedly experts in. That is the classic definition of coordinator who shouldn't be HC to me. Bilick never built a legitimate offense in Baltimore. Capers never built a legitimate D in Houston. Folks can quibble over details but Kubiak has built a solid offense in Houston. I am more forgiving of mistakes on the non-expert side of the ball.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

I don't like HC's who can't build what they are supposedly experts in. That is the classic definition of coordinator who shouldn't be HC to me. Bilick never built a legitimate offense in Baltimore. Capers never built a legitimate D in Houston. Folks can quibble over details but Kubiak has built a solid offense in Houston. I am more forgiving of mistakes on the non-expert side of the ball.

Agreed. I like how Kubiak has been able to build one of the top offenses in the league, with "lesser talent" & invest most of his capital on the other side of the ball. We've got pro bowlers (sorry, it means something to me) who were 4th round draft picks, FA acquisitions (who weren't pro bowlers before they came), & UDFAs, and that's definitely a good sign of the GM & HC/OC working together.

Now that we've got a "real" DC, it's time to start seeing them identify 4 round, & later picks, and relatively cost affective FAs (Like Wade Smith, and Vonta Leach) that can become contributors on this team.

[GP]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I must admit I never even considered raiding the college ranks. The success rate of coaches who make that transition is spotty at best.


As I said above, Sumlin is an interesting choice. I'd be down with that choice because it seems he's found success where ever he's landed. Yeah... the more I think about it, the more I like it.

I listed the names I could come up with but never thought about the college ranks. If Kubiak is fired and Wade isn't, would Wade get all butt-hurt and leave because Uncle Bob didn't annoint him Kubiak's successor?

I think it also depend on who Sumlin (or anyone else for that matter) brings in as assistants. And what kind of team Sumlin and Rick Smith make during draft and free agency time.

Sumlin... I like it.

...oh and repped for thinking outside the box. At least more outside than I did.

A first-year NFL HC isn't going to be able to command big dollars unless he wins the NCAA and then it's off to the races for bidding high enough to land a guy like that.

That's another reason for a guy like McNair to consider making the move.

Our team isn't a power-running team or anything, we're "fast and finesse," and frankly I can envision our OL having those wide splits like we see with Spread Offenses such as Mike Leach's OL who have sometimes a full 3 or 4 or 5 feet between each O-Lineman. From an OL standpoint, we have the guys to make that happen immediately. No major rebuilding would be needed, IMO.

QB? We've got two QBs whom I think could adapt to the Sumlin philosophy fairly easily. Case being the predominant choice here. The longer he sits, the better. If he has to sit one or two more seasons before a move for Sumlin was made, then fine by me. That's less time he gets physically invested into Gary Ball.

WR. AJ will be a question mark, I won't lie. He will be around 1 or 2 years older and would he be able AND willing to switch it up for a Sumlin offense? That type of offense is really, IMO, a hybrid between a West Coast and a Spread Offense (Sumlin utilizes the TE quite bit form the games I watched). So I'm saying that we MIGHT move on from AJ and load up with as many WRs as we can that would fit Sumlin's style. It would be a rebuilding mode with WR and TE, IMO. Which will make Texans fans quake in their Gary Ball boots.

RB. I don't see why there would need to be a change at RB. Another position that I think would be fine to leave untouched. Just continue to stock the shelf here, of course.

If Sumlin produces another stellar season at A&M in 2013, look at how Chip Kelly bolted Oregon for the NFL. It'll happen for some team...they'll kick the tires on Sumlin, and I don't think Sumlin has any allegiances to any college whatsoever. He looks and acts like a man who has his mind set upon moving to the NFL anyway he can.

If there's anybody in the college ranks whom I think could be the Texans HC and do it with good odds of succeeding, I think it's Sumlin. Just my two cents, though. He'd be cheaper than the average NFL retread HCs, he has all positions but WR and TE sewn up nicely, and I think he could find draft picks and FA's in one year that could stock him up sufficiently to make noise right out of the gates.

UH Cougars on both sides of the ball. Sounds good to me.

[b0ng]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Brian Billick yes
Mike Holmgren yes
Lovie Smith yes
Nick Saban Yes


All of these guys have accomplished more than Gary. Holmgren runs the WC offense and Billick runs a version of it.

But it really doesn't matter because until BoB dies Gary will be HC because it would be to traumatic to make changes. (Sarcasm///)

BTW, Gary did a great job this yr playing with an injured QB with very little on the right side of the OL and an injured defense.

Brian Billick. . . the offensive guru who needed to have one of the greatest defenses in the salary cap era to succeed, and when he didn't have that was a miserable failure.

Mike Holmgren. . . easily the most interesting name of the slop you listed as long as you ignore his personnel decisions for the browns of the last 3 years. Also, you will be putting him in charge of personnel.

Love Smith. . . you're saying you want a defensive Kubiak.

Nick Saban. . . Yes because he was so successful the first time.

I know you like to make sarcastic posts about Bob McNair (Since you seem to have gotten off of your crusade that Bob McNair is cheap, what happened with that) and then follow it up with a list of possible HC candidates that look almost like random names picked out of a hat.

For what it's worth, at least Kevin Sumlin is in the realm of "interesting" and not completely ridiculous like the other four that you came up with. Makes it seem like you watch tons of football (///Sarcasm)

[badboy]

Sumlin would be an interesting idea IF he can do a bit better in 2014 and Texans bomb in '13. I think McNair would like another local if Kubiak goes.

[sandman]

Sumlin is going to be a very solid and successful college head coach in his career, and maybe at some point down the road he will try to make the jump to the NFL. But to say right now today, with a coaching resume that has one year as head coach in a major conference, that he could step in and take the Texans farther than Kubiak can? Please...

This is only being brought up because he was "local" at UofH and is now at A&M. If he would have been head coach at Purdue or Clemson for one year and accomplished what he did at A&M, this conversation doesn't happen.

[sandman]

Originally Posted by badboy

Sumlin would be an interesting idea IF he can do a bit better in 2014 and Texans bomb in '13. I think McNair would like another local if Kubiak goes.

Why is Sumlin considered local? Because he coached four years at UofH? Was on Slocum's staff for a year or two over a decade ago?

He's from Indiana, went to Purdue, is from the Joe Tiller coaching tree, and honed his skills under Stoopes at OU. Dude was coaching all over the country for 20 years before he started signing head coach contracts in the Houston area.

He was leaving UofH and getting the gig at a bigger school, no matter where the best offer was. It just happened to be at A&M.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

So who starts next to Cushing? If you move Reed to ILB, who starts at SOLB if you let Barwin go?

I don't want to pay Barwin more than $5M for 2013, but I'm going to start at $2M & try to land him for $3. If we're not successful, then we've got a hole at ILB (because we can't move Reed) & outside pass rusher.... Reed is not a pass rusher.

I'm ok with starting Sharpton, & Dobbins, but not what I consider ideal.

That's the $54,000,000 question for the Texans. No one can answer who starts next to who for the Texans until the Barwin saga works itself out. My guess is, if they lose Barwin (high probability), they keep Reed at OLB with Mercilus and draft an ILB (rd 1 or 2) to play next to Cush, and draft another OLB in mid rounds to rotate the others. If Barwin resigns (low probability IMO), they move Reed to ILB, draft another OLB early (rd 1 or 2), and draft another ILB in the mid rounds as backup and ST.

As for Sharpton and Dobbins, they could keep both as backups and ST, but Sharpton's injury history could come into play if it comes down to a numbers game. I'm not sure he makes the team. Dobbins I think they keep.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by sandman

This is only being brought up because he was "local" at UofH and is now at A&M. If he would have been head coach at Purdue or Clemson for one year and accomplished what he did at A&M, this conversation doesn't happen.

Without a doubt I am only interested because I know what he did at UH & A&M..... However, had he been the HC of some other college & I found he was successful at two different locations, I'd be open to the idea, especially if he had a run like Sumlin did at A&M (the only team to beat Alabama in 2012).

I'm looking forward to see what happens in Philly.

Having said that, I think the time to fire Kubiak is long past. You don't fire a coach who went 10-6 then 12-4. & you don't bench the QB that helped him get there.

[Goldensilence]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Wait for it. . . Waaaaaaaaait for ittttt . . .

Mack Brown

lolololololol

Gets good talent, but fails to consistently develop it, waits forever to fire what should be no brainer coordinators, inability to consistantly make in game adjustments. Much of a UT fan as I am, Gary is the Mack Brown of the NFL.

Far as a HC I think if the position became available Cowher would come back to the NFL for it. Loaded with talent on both sides, great DC, hands off owner, and a fanbase that is just waiting for the next step now.

At any rate replacing Gary right now is a pipe dream. Replacing Schaub is a pipe dream. No matter how much I believe those two need to be replaced, both are going to be what the team has to work with as a whole next year.

Back to offseason needs, whatever they decide to do with Reed is going to leave a spot down at either LBer spot and upgrading either with a healthy Cushing could make this one of the, if not the , best defense in the NFL next year.

We also need a legit #2 WR next year. I think we can get away with Martin or Jean in the slot. I like Martin's quickness, but I like Jean's size and willingness to go after the ball. Walter should be cut. Posey showed late flashes but his injury is going to be a concern going into TC. I really don't care if they make a move in FA or draft but it needs to be addressed.

Either way I really do this would be a good year to move up if they really think a player from either spot is going to be available. They will have an extra third and aren't going to likely make a big FA move and this could be the way they could get a player that might take us over the top and get to the AFC title game and beyond next year.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Without a doubt I am only interested because I know what he did at UH & A&M..... However, had he been the HC of some other college & I found he was successful at two different locations, I'd be open to the idea, especially if he had a run like Sumlin did at A&M (the only team to beat Alabama in 2012).

I'm looking forward to see what happens in Philly.

Having said that, I think the time to fire Kubiak is long past. You don't fire a coach who went 10-6 then 12-4. & you don't bench the QB that helped him get there.

This! ^^^^^

It may be a hard pill for some to take, but that's just the way it is. Deal with it!

[GP]

Originally Posted by sandman

Sumlin is going to be a very solid and successful college head coach in his career, and maybe at some point down the road he will try to make the jump to the NFL. But to say right now today, with a coaching resume that has one year as head coach in a major conference, that he could step in and take the Texans farther than Kubiak can? Please...

This is only being brought up because he was "local" at UofH and is now at A&M. If he would have been head coach at Purdue or Clemson for one year and accomplished what he did at A&M, this conversation doesn't happen.

Sumlin took two programs who weren't even a blip on the radar of NCAA prominence, UH and A&M, and made them relevant from a recruiting and weekly standings standpoint.

I don't think it matters that he's been at two colleges that are in Texas, though it makes it easier for us to recognize what he's accomplished because frankly those two colleges are consistently talked about in our sports media outlets because they are, well ya' know...in Texas. We are familiar with what he's done.

I admit that there are probably coaches elsewhere in the NCAA who should command the same sort of attention, but they don't get the attention because we're not following their college and their conference, etc.

Still, I can't think of another NCAA head coach who has been a part of one very successful season in one spot...then went to a new location the next year and found almost instant success AGAIN. Not as quickly as Sumlin has.

If he brings that A&M team to Top 5 status in 2013, either A&M is going to lock him up with more money and more security than he could ever get in the NFL, or he'll be looking to parlay that success into an NFL job.

Players aren't the only ones in NCAA football who need to judge whether they should declare for the NFL early or stay another year. And with Case Keenum and TJ Yates on the roster, IF there was a move to be made, it makes it easy for McNair and Smith to let Schaub go since Sumlin has no "loyalty factor" tying him to Schaub. It'd be the perfect way for McNair to break from Kubiak and Schaub all at once, but keeping the Public Relations vibe strong with fans in the area. Ticket sales would remain steady and even grow some more, IMO.

[b0ng]

Sumlin is a very interesting case but I think a lot of that interest lays in the fact that most NFL fans aren't exactly familiar with what he's done in college football besides the last year he was at UofH and his first year at A&M (Which I'll admit his first year at A&M was damn near legendary). He got put into the SEC, in what most would've considered an impossible situation, and got his team together enough to go 10-2 in that tough ass conference and embarrassed Alabama (Which no team has really done in a couple of years).

If the Texans went out and hired Sumlin and replaced Kubiak with him after the 2013 season I wouldn't be that upset about it depending on what the Texans did that year.

Put me down as a non-Cowher fan. That guy has been away from football for entirely too long and I think most people who pine for him just want him because he's basically the opposite of Kubiak in terms of how "in-your-face" his coaching style is.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Put me down as a non-Cowher fan. That guy has been away from football for entirely too long and I think most people who pine for him just want him because he's basically the opposite of Kubiak in terms of how "in-your-face" his coaching style is.

While I do like Cowher as a coach, a Steelers' coach, there's nothing about him that makes me believe you can hand him a play off team & see that team in a Super Bowl shortly after. He was handed a play off team & learned on the job. & what got him to the Super Bowl (an enigma at QB) can't be easily duplicated.

[GP]

Originally Posted by b0ng

Sumlin is a very interesting case but I think a lot of that interest lays in the fact that most NFL fans aren't exactly familiar with what he's done in college football besides the last year he was at UofH and his first year at A&M (Which I'll admit his first year at A&M was damn near legendary). He got put into the SEC, in what most would've considered an impossible situation, and got his team together enough to go 10-2 in that tough ass conference and embarrassed Alabama (Which no team has really done in a couple of years).

If the Texans went out and hired Sumlin and replaced Kubiak with him after the 2013 season I wouldn't be that upset about it depending on what the Texans did that year.

Put me down as a non-Cowher fan. That guy has been away from football for entirely too long and I think most people who pine for him just want him because he's basically the opposite of Kubiak in terms of how "in-your-face" his coaching style is.

Yep.

The thing I always didn't feel comfortable with, in terms of Cowher, is whether he had the REAL passion to start fresh with a team and front office he doesn't have a handle on...could he truly be that same leader he was prior to his stint with the Steelers?

My opinion is that he would be the Jimmy Johnson of the Dolphins...the guy who was essentially a fish-out-of-water with a new team in a new era.

One of the things that we always talk about, as well, as how these "great head coaches" always had one thing in common when they won a Super Bowl or had really good seasons for consistent years.....they had an EXTREMELY TALENTED QB.

Jimmy Johnson had Aikman. Hell, the entire offense was Pro Bowlers.

Cowher didn't a win a Super Bowl with Neil O'Donell, but here comes Big Ben and it's Lombardi Trophies for everyone in black and yellow.

Put those two coaches on the Texans, with the QB we've got, and I think they become as mortal as anybody else.

What we need is a head coach who isn't afraid to shake things up and really do things that haven't been done. For Sumlin to have just jumped right into the SEC as a first-time Aggie head coach in a new conference, and to play a freaking freshman runt QB...and to get the results he got...there was out-of-this-world "buy-in" by everyone on his staff and roster. That's SPECIAL.

I think the problem with long-time coordinators in the NFL, when they become head coaches, is that they end up regressing back to what they know best: Calling plays and worrying about the details of what's in their wheelhouse, rather than looking at the TEAM as a whole. Gary is withdrawing into that zone of being a coordinator, IMO. We need a HC who will be a HC.

If you can't find it within yourself to make some moves at the most critical position, QB, you're dead in the water in the NFL. This whole organization, though, is dedicated to loyalty to a fault.

[Playoffs]

These two are looking viable today...?

Originally Posted by Playoffs

OLB

Free Agent Fix: Victor Butler

While he won’t receive the same pay day of his current Dallas teammate Anthony Spencer, outside linebacker Victor Butler has the potential to be one of the bargains of the offseason for the right team. Playing just 300 snaps for the Cowboys this past year, Butler had a Pass Rushing Productivity rating of 9.4, with three sacks, three hits and nine hurries from 127 pass rushing snaps.

He’s far from a sure thing, with this being the most snaps he’s seen in a season in his four-year career, but Butler has earned his shot at a starting gig. Grading positively both as a pass rusher and against the run in each of the past three seasons, Butler has shown that he’s good enough on a limited number of snaps, and now comes his chance to do it as a starter.

ILB

Free Agent Fix: Larry Grant

Playing on a defense with the two best inside linebackers in football will make opportunities hard to come by, and so San Francisco’s Larry Grant saw just 20 snaps on defense this past year. From those limited snaps his lone tackle did result in a defensive stop, but a look back to the end of the 2011 season saw him enjoy extended playing time.

His performance against the St. Louis Rams in Week 13 of that season was particular impressive, with Grant registering a sack and a hit to go along with four tackles, which all resulted in a defensive stop. Over the entire season he saw 232 snaps, and graded positively against the run, as a pass rusher and in coverage. He’s not someone that’s guaranteed to come in and start, but his play in the past suggests it’s not unreasonable to expect him to come in and compete.

[Insideop]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

These two are looking viable today...?

If the Texans did manage to sign Ed Reed, would they have enough left to sign either one of these guys?

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

While I do like Cowher as a coach, a Steelers' coach, there's nothing about him that makes me believe you can hand him a play off team & see that team in a Super Bowl shortly after. He was handed a play off team & learned on the job. & what got him to the Super Bowl (an enigma at QB) can't be easily duplicated.

Kubiak is in no danger and Cowher isn't loooking for a job. But your take on Cowher is ridiculous. When Cowher took over the Steelers, they had been to the playoffs once (1989) in seven seasons. Then, they went to the playoffs 6 consecutive seasons. He built that team. Then rebuilt it. His resume speaks for itself as a winner.

[Playoffs]

Originally Posted by Insideop

If the Texans did manage to sign Ed Reed, would they have enough left to sign either one of these guys?

Don't know, hopefully Reed gets on a plane and leaves and we keep the money.