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Old 03-13-2013   #101
Texecutioner
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
we need a daryl morey analytics centered gm especially in a sport like football where spending smart money is of even greater importance than the nba.

IF we dont have a analytics centered approach, we are behind the curve.
Finally we agree on something.


If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly.
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Old 03-13-2013   #102
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Finally we agree on something.


If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly.
Oh , you mean by trading for and signing guys to play with a guy who missed an entire season? Or what about trading the 8th pick in the draft for glue? C'mon, morey hasnt done anything either. He's on the path because he got Harden, but he also gave a dude 8m who he cut in preseason and is average at best.
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Old 03-13-2013   #103
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Umm, we got a 3rd and a 4th for Demeco Ryans last year. Not bad for an aging, MLB, one year removed from a torn achilles tendon who was a liability in pass coverage when he was young and healthy.

How about the trade down in 2008 to drop back and grab Duane Brown one pick before the Chargers grabbed him. How does that move look now?

How about last off-season when he got us cap healthy without sacrificing the season and landed us (likely) 4 compensatory draft picks for this year, including a 3rd rounder?

How about outbidding the Bears a few years ago for an UDFA, offering a rare two year contract to lure him out of Chicago: Arian Foster?


He has let Dunta walk, and he let Mario walk away despite a lot of noise suggesting it was very foolish to do so... The Texans did have a choice, by the way. They could have restructured contracts and chosen not to pay some of Foster, Brown, Myers, Schaub... electing to "win now" with Mario and worry about the future when they had to. Good thing Rick and company avoided that nonsense!
This is the best you can do??? Lol!

You totally just made my point for me as usual Dale.

Rick Smith looked like a clown for what he let go of Demeco for. He could have gotten better assets then that.

And spare me with this moving up or down a few spots in 3rd rounds of drafts when you have no clue would have been there or wouldn't have been there. That isn't saying anything at all.

And you had the nerve to bring up last off season as if Rick Smith did well? Lol! Did you not see how bad our WR's were this season. I went on and on about it all off season and called Rick Smith still an amateur for what happened to the cap that fast which handcuffed him from being able to get help at WR's. We relied on unproven rookies to do the job. Shrewd GM there. Lol! I don't want to hear jack about last off season, because I warned many on this board that the WR's would struggle badly and they did and it hurt the team a lot.

If there is any props I'll give to Smith is that he has been able to draft well in the first round the last few years, but a lot of that goes to Kubiak and Wade who essentially tell these guys the players that they want. Smith has a say so for sure, but Kubiak has always been very involved in draft picks and Wade pretty much got his way the last two seasons.
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Old 03-13-2013   #104
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Oh , you mean by trading for and signing guys to play with a guy who missed an entire season? Or what about trading the 8th pick in the draft for glue? C'mon, morey hasnt done anything either. He's on the path because he got Harden, but he also gave a dude 8m who he cut in preseason and is average at best.
In the NBA your team aint **** unless you have a top of the line superstar franchise player. The Rockets can't and haven't been able to get that, but it hasn't been from a lack of trying. Franchise players don't go to teams who don't already have one or at least two in most cases now days, and Morey's been screwed on that note ever since Tmac and Yao fizzled out. You either have a franchise player or you don't in the NBA. If you don't your team will never be a contender. I've said that for years to folks in here and haven't been proven wrong yet. But for everything else Morey has been able to strike all sorts of deals where he got over on other teams. I'm pretty surprised that teams even still trade with him at this point.
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Old 03-13-2013   #105
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
In the NBA your team aint **** unless you have a top of the line superstar franchise player. The Rockets can't and haven't been able to get that, but it hasn't been from a lack of trying. Franchise players don't go to teams who don't already have one or at least two in most cases now days, and Morey's been screwed on that note ever since Tmac and Yao fizzled out. You either have a franchise player or you don't in the NBA. If you don't your team will never be a contender. I've said that for years to folks in here and haven't been proven wrong yet. But for everything else Morey has been able to strike all sorts of deals where he got over on other teams. I'm pretty surprised that teams even still trade with him at this point.
He traded the #8 pick for a role player. He continued to build around Yao even though he was done when he hit the floor in la. He should started right then and not ever traded for martin and let scola go, suck for a year or 2 get a high draft pick. Instead, we kept going .500 with a limited upside team. I'm also assuming you forgot about the vetoed trade that wouldve sent CPto La and they wouldve still been able to get Howard. C'mon, smith has done just as good, if not a better job than morey.
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Old 03-13-2013   #106
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
This is the best you can do??? Lol!

You totally just made my point for me as usual Dale.

Rick Smith looked like a clown for what he let go of Demeco for. He could have gotten better assets then that.

And spare me with this moving up or down a few spots in 3rd rounds of drafts when you have no clue would have been there or wouldn't have been there. That isn't saying anything at all.

And you had the nerve to bring up last off season as if Rick Smith did well? Lol! Did you not see how bad our WR's were this season. I went on and on about it all off season and called Rick Smith still an amateur for what happened to the cap that fast which handcuffed him from being able to get help at WR's. We relied on unproven rookies to do the job. Shrewd GM there. Lol! I don't want to hear jack about last off season, because I warned many on this board that the WR's would struggle badly and they did and it hurt the team a lot.

If there is any props I'll give to Smith is that he has been able to draft well in the first round the last few years, but a lot of that goes to Kubiak and Wade who essentially tell these guys the players that they want. Smith has a say so for sure, but Kubiak has always been very involved in draft picks and Wade pretty much got his way the last two seasons.
Exactly. The minimal success that they've had has been in spite of Smith, not because of him.
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Old 03-13-2013   #107
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
He traded the #8 pick for a role player.
You talk as if draft picks mean a thing in the NBA now days. I mean what is a draft pick in the last 6 years or so??

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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
He continued to build around Yao even though he was done when he hit the floor in la.
You honestly believe that it was Morey who held onto Yao?? Come on now. Morey had his hands tied to Yao more like it. Les Alexander was never going to part ways with Yao Ming. Les would have let Morey go before he would have allowed any GM to deal Yao while he was still non retired with the ability to rehab and attempt to still play.



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Originally Posted by leebigeztx View Post
He should started right then and not ever traded for martin and let scola go, suck for a year or 2 get a high draft pick. Instead, we kept going .500 with a limited upside team.
Well I agree with you that it would have been better off probably to do it that way, but that isn't realistic at all to think that any GM would do that when they were good enough to go at least slightly over 500 and fight for a playoff spot. No GM would want to put their job on the line by tanking for certain draft picks. I would have liked for that to have been the outcome, but I never once thought that Morey would do something like that, nor would I expect him to risk his job like that.

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I'm also assuming you forgot about the vetoed trade that wouldve sent CPto La and they wouldve still been able to get Howard. C'mon, smith has done just as good, if not a better job than morey.
I hated that trade. Yeah, Gasol is so bad ass this year isn't he? Gasol is a nice player that I've always appreciated, but he was hardly a real piece for us, and why on earth would you even mention Howard at this point?? I hated the idea of Howard last off season, and boy do I hate it even more now after seeing his stint in LA. I'd never trust that guy after seeing how he acted in Orlando. Morey is waiting patiently to find that right superstar or the closest thing to it, and he'll pull trigger. It's a matter of being able to get other superstars to join the Rockets team. With the Beard here, I think they have a much better chance going forward.

The NBA is a much bigger crap shoot all around now days though. Realistically there are really only 3 teams that even have a chance now days and about 3 other decent contenders. The rest of the NBA are all a bunch of random teams that have no shot.
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Old 03-13-2013   #108
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by BullBlitz View Post
Exactly. The minimal success that they've had has been in spite of Smith, not because of him.
Hard to argue w/ that. Smith's best work was when his job was on the line & he was forced to acquire some real talent in FA, Manning & Joesph, to save it as opposed to the poor talent he was accustomed to aquiring such Jacque Reeves. He then followed it up w/ a good defensive draft that he & Kubiak gave Wade credit for w/ his preparation & assistance in selecting players. Smith has not been impressive to me either & this offseason hasnt helped his case thus far. It's still early, but I've got my doubts.
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Old 03-13-2013   #109
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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I would venture a guess that Mike Sherman had something to do with it



gotta dig deep in order to find the mythical 7th round bust
Yep

But Wade had nothing to do with bringing in Watt,Reed, JoJo,Manning etc....
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Old 03-13-2013   #110
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Finally we agree on something.


If Rick Smith had even an ounce of Morey's intelligence as a GM, the Texans wouldn't be in the cap hell they're in right now. Not saying Morey could be an NFL GM, but the guy definitely rapes other teams on trades around the NBA which is something Smith has no clue at all of doing and never has. We can always build through the draft and expect our rookies to put our team over the top. After all that's what SB teams do every year right? They just ignore free agency and any guys on the trade blocks for rookies. It works perfectly.
Cap hell? Exaggeration much? The Texans have cap issues, but not being able to re-sign the guys that have moved on to other teams hardly constitutes cap hell. Ignore free agency? So you're just going to discount Rick Smith's role in signing Jonathon Joseph and Danieal Manning? Seems like the Texans were active then. You're blowing things way out of proportion.

And you're comparing apples and oranges between NBA GMs and NFL GMs. Trades are rare in the NFL. They happen, but there are very few instances when star players are moved. It's usually role players and/or draft picks.
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Old 03-13-2013   #111
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Hard to argue w/ that. Smith's best work was when his job was on the line & he was forced to acquire some real talent in FA, Manning & Joesph, to save it as opposed to the poor talent he was accustomed to aquiring such Jacque Reeves. He then followed it up w/ a good defensive draft that he & Kubiak gave Wade credit for w/ his preparation & assistance in selecting players. Smith has not been impressive to me either & this offseason hasnt helped his case thus far. It's still early, but I've got my doubts.
Overall I'd say he's been ok as a GM. We've never been super aggressive in free agency, but he's had some good drafts. He's had some duds mixed in with some diamonds in the draft and free agency. Just in the past couple of years you've seen how eager teams have been to acquire talent off of our team so he's done a decent job of evaluating if you just base it purely on that.

There's probably a happy medium in between the Smith haters and lovers on how good a job he has done, but you can just look around the league every year. No team's fanbase is going to be completely happy with the moves they make.
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Old 03-13-2013   #112
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Hows that working out for Morey in the NBA again? People give this guy entirely too much credit for having done not much of anything but penny-pinch us all the way to the lotto for 78907 seasons...Wake me up when his moves actually lead to us winning a playoff series.
Watch more basketball, Morey is a lock for GM of the year this season.
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Old 03-13-2013   #113
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
You talk as if draft picks mean a thing in the NBA now days. I mean what is a draft pick in the last 6 years or so??



You honestly believe that it was Morey who held onto Yao?? Come on now. Morey had his hands tied to Yao more like it. Les Alexander was never going to part ways with Yao Ming. Les would have let Morey go before he would have allowed any GM to deal Yao while he was still non retired with the ability to rehab and attempt to still play.





Well I agree with you that it would have been better off probably to do it that way, but that isn't realistic at all to think that any GM would do that when they were good enough to go at least slightly over 500 and fight for a playoff spot. No GM would want to put their job on the line by tanking for certain draft picks. I would have liked for that to have been the outcome, but I never once thought that Morey would do something like that, nor would I expect him to risk his job like that.



I hated that trade. Yeah, Gasol is so bad ass this year isn't he? Gasol is a nice player that I've always appreciated, but he was hardly a real piece for us, and why on earth would you even mention Howard at this point?? I hated the idea of Howard last off season, and boy do I hate it even more now after seeing his stint in LA. I'd never trust that guy after seeing how he acted in Orlando. Morey is waiting patiently to find that right superstar or the closest thing to it, and he'll pull trigger. It's a matter of being able to get other superstars to join the Rockets team. With the Beard here, I think they have a much better chance going forward.

The NBA is a much bigger crap shoot all around now days though. Realistically there are really only 3 teams that even have a chance now days and about 3 other decent contenders. The rest of the NBA are all a bunch of random teams that have no shot.
Not doing the NBA thingy

But you've got to admit Morey has done more with less and had more difficult perameters to work under with Les being the owner. Morey is a far more intelligent GM that's willing to take risks Rick would never take.
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Old 03-13-2013   #114
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Texn4life View Post
Overall I'd say he's been ok as a GM. We've never been super aggressive in free agency, but he's had some good drafts. He's had some duds mixed in with some diamonds in the draft and free agency. Just in the past couple of years you've seen how eager teams have been to acquire talent off of our team so he's done a decent job of evaluating if you just base it purely on that.

There's probably a happy medium in between the Smith haters and lovers on how good a job he has done, but you can just look around the league every year. No team's fanbase is going to be completely happy with the moves they make.
Meanwhile teams like the Seahawks are doing laps around teams like the Texans when it comes to the draft/FA/trades.
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Old 03-13-2013   #115
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Meanwhile teams like the Seahawks are doing laps around teams like the Texans when it comes to the draft/FA/trades.
The Seahawks hit some home runs in the past couple of years, but they've had their fair share of duds in all of the above. Who's to say those guys don't come back down to earth this year though. If I recall correctly they still only have the same amount of playoff wins as we do the past few years.
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Old 03-13-2013   #116
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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The Seahawks hit some home runs in the past couple of years, but they've had their fair share of duds in all of the above. Who's to say those guys don't come back down to earth this year though. If I recall correctly they still only have the same amount of playoff wins as we do the past few years.
Exactly, and what are the Seahawks records since 2007?

How did Pete Caroll fare overall in the win-loss column?

What's that LB that was drafted in the first round a few years back; Aaron Curry?
That's a bust if I've ever seen one.
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Old 03-13-2013   #117
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Exactly, and what are the Seahawks records since 2007?

How did Pete Caroll fare overall in the win-loss column?

What's that LB that was drafted in the first round a few years back; Aaron Curry?
That's a bust if I've ever seen one.
$34M guaranteed; the biggest amount ever to a non-QB rookie.

Down the drain, LOL!
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Old 03-13-2013   #118
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Exactly, and what are the Seahawks records since 2007?

How did Pete Caroll fare overall in the win-loss column?

What's that LB that was drafted in the first round a few years back; Aaron Curry?
That's a bust if I've ever seen one.
Sidney Rice, Tavaris Jackson, talk Golden Tate could be on his way out. Traded for and paid big money for a backup QB....... every front office is prone to making mistakes.

I will give them that they had the hands down best draft in the league last year, and they should be commended for it but I'm not gonna act like they've been perfect. There's a very good chance the Percy Harvin trade could blow up in their faces.
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Old 03-13-2013   #119
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by TexanSam View Post
Cap hell? Exaggeration much? The Texans have cap issues, but not being able to re-sign the guys that have moved on to other teams hardly constitutes cap hell. Ignore free agency? So you're just going to discount Rick Smith's role in signing Jonathon Joseph and Danieal Manning? Seems like the Texans were active then. You're blowing things way out of proportion.

And you're comparing apples and oranges between NBA GMs and NFL GMs. Trades are rare in the NFL. They happen, but there are very few instances when star players are moved. It's usually role players and/or draft picks.
I didn't discount anything. Do you not realize that all you can bring up is one off season where Rick was highly competitive in improving this team? That is a horrible ratio for a guy that is in like his 7th off season. And that also happened to be the year we brought in Wade Phillips who needed to transform an entire defense. You have one active off season to credit the guy on. Sorry, but I don't see how you could be happy with those types of results. If I am highly impressed with what Morey has been able to do under his circumstances, that ought to tell you that I don't expect every move to be a great deal that worked or expect a SB to like the GM. Morey is constantly aggressive in his persuit to better the Houston Rockets though. Rick Smith has never been that guy other then one off season by your own admission, so I don't see why you wouldn't want to see more consistency in that approach.
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Old 03-13-2013   #120
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Default Re: Rick Smith looks smarter every day

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
I didn't discount anything. Do you not realize that all you can bring up is one off season where Rick was highly competitive in improving this team? That is a horrible ratio for a guy that is in like his 7th off season. And that also happened to be the year we brought in Wade Phillips who needed to transform an entire defense. You have one active off season to credit the guy on. Sorry, but I don't see how you could be happy with those types of results. If I am highly impressed with what Morey has been able to do under his circumstances, that ought to tell you that I don't expect every move to be a great deal that worked or expect a SB to like the GM. Morey is constantly aggressive in his persuit to better the Houston Rockets though. Rick Smith has never been that guy other then one off season by your own admission, so I don't see why you wouldn't want to see more consistency in that approach.
I don't know Tex, I think every year with Rick Smith has been at least solid.
The proof is in the players that other teams want when they left the Texans.
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