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Old 03-11-2013   #61
Corrosion
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by TexanBacker93 View Post
Pittsburgh has lived off Compensatory picks for years. We have enough draft picks to fill holes that we currently have and replace a couple of guys that will leave.

I'd rather not lose Quin, Jones, or Casey, but the only irreplaceable guys are all signed.
I think Quin is one of those core players they need to hang onto. I saw enough poor safety play in the teams forst decade to last me a lifetime.
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Old 03-11-2013   #62
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Sure doing these things helps the cap situation today , for this season .... but what about the future impact of those actions.

It inflates the cap figures of each of AJ , JJo and Smith for those future years.

What are you going to do next season ... when you have Cushing hitting free agency or a couple years down the line when JJ Watt reaches FA - He's going to cost big bucks to retain (MW money?)


You can only put off paying guy' (cap hits) for so long .... eventually you have to bite the bullet.
Heading into next season, we are in great cap shape... Watt is two years out and Cushing is next season... correct. However, large contracts are coming off the books or entering the last year (easy to cut) of a lot of guys:

Antonio Smith
Kevin Walter
Owen Daniels
Wade Smith
Daniel Manning

That group, as is, will count about $28 million against this year's cap. Next year, if allowed to expire or cut (OD, Manning have one more year under contract), the total amount of dead money would be only $3.25 million: that's a net savings of $25 million.
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Old 03-11-2013   #63
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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I think Quin is one of those core players they need to hang onto. I saw enough poor safety play in the teams forst decade to last me a lifetime.
I'm still washing my eyes with bleach for the saftey (and CB) play of the *ahem* "that" Oilers team in Buffalo.
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Old 03-11-2013   #64
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Heading into next season, we are in great cap shape... Watt is two years out and Cushing is next season... correct. However, large contracts are coming off the books or entering the last year (easy to cut) of a lot of guys:

Antonio Smith
Kevin Walter
Owen Daniels
Wade Smith
Daniel Manning

That group, as is, will count about $28 million against this year's cap. Next year, if allowed to expire or cut (OD, Manning have one more year under contract), the total amount of dead money would be only $3.25 million: that's a net savings of $25 million.


If the players in the post I quoted from earlier in the thread are restructured , Smith wouldnt be expiring and you still have AJ and Jjo with huge cap figures.

Then you have to replace OD , Manning , Walter and Wade Smith somehow ....

That 25m in savings doesnt seem so great when you consider that those you are talking about cutting have been major contributors to the success of the team tho all would be at the tail end of their careers at that point.

In a perfect world , we'd cut all those players and replace them with early round draft picks on rookie deals .... and still have the majority of that cap space to play with , just isnt likely.
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Old 03-11-2013   #65
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
[/b]

If the players in the post I quoted from earlier in the thread are restructured , Smith wouldnt be expiring and you still have AJ and Jjo with huge cap figures.

Then you have to replace OD , Manning , Walter and Wade Smith somehow ....

That 25m in savings doesnt seem so great when you consider that those you are talking about cutting have been major contributors to the success of the team tho all would be at the tail end of their careers at that point.

In a perfect world , we'd cut all those players and replace them with early round draft picks on rookie deals .... and still have the majority of that cap space to play with , just isnt likely.
If Smith is restructured it will be an extension (otherwise he'd be a free agent).. In a new deal, the first couple years would be a much smaller cap charge. Also, the Texans do have 10 or 11 draft picks this year. Also, we are getting out from under the biggest chunk of yearly charges on these deals which were done before the last work stoppage when the cap was expected to climb every year, instead of shrinking 10% as it did. Look at the structure of any NFL teams' contracts and you will see similar deals. It's good timing to have OD's deal expire after 2014. He will be cut because he is no longer worth that money or be re-signed at a smaller amount to account for his shrinking value in the market due to age
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Old 03-11-2013   #66
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

Should have made Schaub earn the new contract, especially coming off injury.

Fosters contract was probably bigger than it needed to be.
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Old 03-11-2013   #67
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Should have made Schaub earn the new contract, especially coming off injury.

Fosters contract was probably bigger than it needed to be.
Foster deal was classy. They told Arian to play out the 2011 season and he would be rewarded. He was an elite RB for two seasons for the Texans while getting paid like an undrafted free agent (chump change)... It was right for the Texans to reward him handsomely. It's very different than drafting a guy in the 1st round and then negotiating with a guy for his 2nd deal who already has $15 million in the bank. Foster played three seasons had probably failed to earn a total of $1 million and was one play away from the end of his career.

Not only were the Texans being ethical and classy, but NFL players make note of which organizations treat players the right way and which do not. Their generosity will pay off. Besides, I'm sure they can go to Foster and restructure if and when it is necessary.
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Old 03-11-2013   #68
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Foster deal was classy. They told Arian to play out the 2011 season and he would be rewarded. He was an elite RB for two seasons for the Texans while getting paid like an undrafted free agent (chump change)... It was right for the Texans to reward him handsomely. It's very different than drafting a guy in the 1st round and then negotiating with a guy for his 2nd deal who already has $15 million in the bank. Foster played three seasons had probably failed to earn a total of $1 million and was one play away from the end of his career.

Not only were the Texans being ethical and classy, but NFL players make note of which organizations treat players the right way and which do not. Their generosity will pay off. Besides, I'm sure they can go to Foster and restructure if and when it is necessary.

C'mon Bro, I dont buy that one bit. Since this teams inception the Texans have been labled 'the classy organization' and how many superstar free agents have come here?

Fact of the matter is that Foster WAS an undrafted free agent, and should be happy to have been given the chance , furthermore the amount of the contract had plenty of people raising their eyebrows would Foster have been happy with 30 MILLION with 15 guaranteed VS the 45 MILLION deal he was given? Would there have been a holdout situation? I doubt it.

Ethics? These are grown men geting paid to play a game where the minimum salary is what 300,000 for a 'scrub' player? Popping Roids has an ethical incentive to it, punching funbags in the dog pile has some ethical implications. Handing out millions of dollars 'just because' has no ethical value.

I get it, you like Foster. So do I. I just think the contract was too much. Had a down year this year? What if next year he has yet another down year?

My opinion is that Rick Smith doesnt get enough of the heat, that Kubiak gets burned at the stake for the lack of ability in the front office to get the most value out of the cap.
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Old 03-11-2013   #69
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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C'mon Bro, I dont buy that one bit. Since this teams inception the Texans have been labled 'the classy organization' and how many superstar free agents have come here?

Fact of the matter is that Foster WAS an undrafted free agent, and should be happy to have been given the chance , furthermore the amount of the contract had plenty of people raising their eyebrows would Foster have been happy with 30 MILLION with 15 guaranteed VS the 45 MILLION deal he was given? Would there have been a holdout situation? I doubt it.

Ethics? These are grown men geting paid to play a game where the minimum salary is what 300,000 for a 'scrub' player? Popping Roids has an ethical incentive to it, punching funbags in the dog pile has some ethical implications. Handing out millions of dollars 'just because' has no ethical value.

I get it, you like Foster. So do I. I just think the contract was too much. Had a down year this year? What if next year he has yet another down year?

My opinion is that Rick Smith doesnt get enough of the heat, that Kubiak gets burned at the stake for the lack of ability in the front office to get the most value out of the cap.
Seems like all the players the texans let go now are a high commodity. Think about it real hard, we draft guys like Cushing, Demeco, Watt, KJ, OD, AJ, Reed NONE of these guys are "characters" they are all classy guys that a lot of teams would kill to have.

And we build through the draft so even if a player wanted to come here u think the staff is just like come on in, and replace or future prospect. Get real that isnt how the NFL works
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Old 03-12-2013   #70
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
I think Quin is one of those core players they need to hang onto. I saw enough poor safety play in the teams forst decade to last me a lifetime.
I want to keep him, but I don't put him as irreplaceable. I don't want to have to find another safety, but I trust Wade and Vance to get the right guy playing well if they need to.

By the right guy I mean someone new to Houston if that's what is needed. There's nobody on the roster that I think can take over.
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Old 03-12-2013   #71
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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C'mon Bro, I dont buy that one bit. Since this teams inception the Texans have been labled 'the classy organization' and how many superstar free agents have come here?

Fact of the matter is that Foster WAS an undrafted free agent, and should be happy to have been given the chance , furthermore the amount of the contract had plenty of people raising their eyebrows would Foster have been happy with 30 MILLION with 15 guaranteed VS the 45 MILLION deal he was given? Would there have been a holdout situation? I doubt it.

Ethics? These are grown men geting paid to play a game where the minimum salary is what 300,000 for a 'scrub' player? Popping Roids has an ethical incentive to it, punching funbags in the dog pile has some ethical implications. Handing out millions of dollars 'just because' has no ethical value.

I get it, you like Foster. So do I. I just think the contract was too much. Had a down year this year? What if next year he has yet another down year?

My opinion is that Rick Smith doesnt get enough of the heat, that Kubiak gets burned at the stake for the lack of ability in the front office to get the most value out of the cap.
I'm still amazed at the "down year for Foster" opinions that float around here. His YPC was down, but he still scored. He still ran for 1,400 yards. He didn't catch as many passes, but was he dropping all of those or were they going somewhere else? He had 2 first year starters blocking for him. That is going to play a role.

Maybe we all want (expect?) him to get 2,000 yards. While we are a run first offense we did have a QB and a great WR. We threw the ball, too. AP got his because they didn't have a QB in Minnesota.
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Old 03-12-2013   #72
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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I'm still amazed at the "down year for Foster" opinions that float around here. His YPC was down, but he still scored. He still ran for 1,400 yards. He didn't catch as many passes, but was he dropping all of those or were they going somewhere else? He had 2 first year starters blocking for him. That is going to play a role.

Maybe we all want (expect?) him to get 2,000 yards. While we are a run first offense we did have a QB and a great WR. We threw the ball, too. AP got his because they didn't have a QB in Minnesota.
Agree.

I think Foster's contract is in-line.
We had exploited his UDFA contract enough.
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Old 03-12-2013   #73
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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I'm still amazed at the "down year for Foster" opinions that float around here. His YPC was down, but he still scored. He still ran for 1,400 yards. He didn't catch as many passes, but was he dropping all of those or were they going somewhere else? He had 2 first year starters blocking for him. That is going to play a role.

Maybe we all want (expect?) him to get 2,000 yards. While we are a run first offense we did have a QB and a great WR. We threw the ball, too. AP got his because they didn't have a QB in Minnesota.
Heh, I doubt any are saying anything about running 2000 yards. But he did have a down year in comparison to 2011. Someone made a great post somewhere breaking each game down. Now a lot goes one the line but that wasn't the sole issue with Arian. It was his yards after contact that seemed so different than 2011.

Put it like this...in 2011 Arian had two games he ran for an average of less than 2.0 yards a carry after contact. This includes playoffs.

In 2012 Arian had eleven games he ran for an average of less than 2.0 yards a carry after contact including playoffs. Quite the contrast.

So while he had issues with blocking on one side of our line it also seemed he wasn't getting the YAC he use to either. I think the slipping and falling has been spoken about quite a bit with folks saying he needs some steak in his life lol. Could he have been conserving himself? Who knows. But his averages went up toward the end of the season.

It's why I say you can't always just look at total rushing yards. There is more to it than that. Just like Peterson in comparison. He didn't get his just because of team philosophy. His yards after contact are out the freaking park including one game of a 8.9. Dude is just a beast.

As for the original point of the thread the answer is easy....we won. You win players begin wanting more money because their value increases, teams begin stripping you of players, etc. If anything it speaks on how things have changed here when no one wanted a darn soul from us.
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Old 03-12-2013   #74
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

The Ravens made some tough choices resting their defensive players for the play-offs.

We talked about the same thing with J Jo.
Too bad, Cushing's ailment needed more than just rest.
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Old 03-12-2013   #75
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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The Ravens made some tough choices resting their defensive players for the play-offs.

We talked about the same thing with J Jo.
Too bad, Cushing's ailment needed more than just rest.
And with that you hit 10k posts! Heh that's a lot of freaking posting, man!

Also I hope we add a versatile ILB so we don't have to be too dependent on Cushing and wear him out after such a significant injury. It's amazing how much versatility we lacked at the position. Granted if Reed shifts that could change and there are a couple in the draft that seem rather versatile.
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