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Old 03-10-2013   #21
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

Simply put, they had to lock up some premier players at key spots the last few years.

I totally support the Foster and Brown extension. Those were no brainers. Still not sure about Schaub's extension, but the team backed themselves into it. They really don't have anything behind Matt and I didn't see them making a move via FA or trade for an upgrade. For better or worse this team hitched itself to Matt Schaub at QB. OD lived up to his contract this year which was a big relief for me.

IMO cutting Walter should give some cap relief, I just don't see the point of keeping him on board whether he's a vet or not. His pay this year just isn't likely to be anywhere near the production you expect from having a #2 WR. Not saying I am sold on anyone behind him, but realistically we'd likely be getting the same production for way less. I'm also a fan of WR in the first fwiw.
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Old 03-10-2013   #22
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

The salary cap not raising any nominal amount of money (the last two years) is also a significant reason.
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Old 03-10-2013   #23
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
His pay this year just isn't likely to be anywhere near the production you expect from having a #2 WR. Not saying I am sold on anyone behind him, but realistically we'd likely be getting the same production for way less. I'm also a fan of WR in the first fwiw.
Remember, they still have $2 million of dead money on the cap by cutting Walter. My point is that a salary reduction would reduce his cap number, but still have vet WR on the team. That would be necessary even if the Texans go WR early (which I agree they should do).

Forget for a moment what you feel Walter is worth. The Texans have zip behind him at the moment. Posey is rehabbing an Achilles tear. Martin is a slot receiver (and not a good one). Jean has 6 career catches. So you either find a vet WR as good or better than Walter. Or get Walter to take a lesser deal. Who is the vet WR that is going to take $2.5 million (or less) that is more accomplished than Walter?
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Old 03-10-2013   #24
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Remember, they still have $2 million of dead money on the cap by cutting Walter. My point is that a salary reduction would reduce his cap number, but still have vet WR on the team. That would be necessary even if the Texans go WR early (which I agree they should do).

Forget for a moment what you feel Walter is worth. The Texans have zip behind him at the moment. Posey is rehabbing an Achilles tear. Martin is a slot receiver (and not a good one). Jean has 6 career catches. So you either find a vet WR as good or better than Walter. Or get Walter to take a lesser deal. Who is the vet WR that is going to take $2.5 million (or less) that is more accomplished than Walter?
If they can get KW to agree to another salary cut that'd be a win-win for both sides. They might be able to get him to do that again. I did admit we don't have much behind him at this point and that is worrisome, but the bigger problem I have is he's not producing light years above them. The WRs corps as a whole outside of AJ has been bothersome.

I did see some flashes from Posey late last season, but that Achilles is going to be a setback that I am hoping doesn't linger.

There are veteran solutions out there, but I am just not sure the yare in the mold the Texans would want like Chad Johnson. We also picked KW out from the Bengals bench for a 7th...so there's that route.
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Old 03-10-2013   #25
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
Did i miss something, why in the hell did this thread pop up out of the blue ?

There are a lot of things the front office can do so the team can stay competitive and even get better. Biggest key is the draft, which we have done quite well on.

All we can do as fans is sit back and watch, i have faith Smith and Co will make the right choices.

And even if they DONT i am still a texans fan so what can i do ? Not a damn thing. So chilax everyone
^^^^
This

Except I dont have the faith that you do in BoB/Rick/Gary. But there's nothing we can do about it.
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Old 03-10-2013   #26
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Remember, they still have $2 million of dead money on the cap by cutting Walter. My point is that a salary reduction would reduce his cap number, but still have vet WR on the team. That would be necessary even if the Texans go WR early (which I agree they should do).

Forget for a moment what you feel Walter is worth. The Texans have zip behind him at the moment. Posey is rehabbing an Achilles tear. Martin is a slot receiver (and not a good one). Jean has 6 career catches. So you either find a vet WR as good or better than Walter. Or get Walter to take a lesser deal. Who is the vet WR that is going to take $2.5 million (or less) that is more accomplished than Walter?
I would cut A.Smith and probably W.Smith. And Probably R.Smith kinda like they did with the Browns (Kris/Chris) LOL

Seriously, I would cut Wade/A. Smith and Walter. With that Savings I would try to sign Levitre in FA and a cheap vet like Danario Alexander/Riley Cooper type WR. Then draft Datone Jones in the 1st and Ryan Swope in the 2nd.

Then start filling needs at NT/RT/LB in the 3rd rd. There's great value in the 3rd rd this yr. I would try to get three 3rd's to fill holes. Using the Texans 3rd,the comp pick and using a 4/5 and 6th (They should have 2 extra 6th rd comp picks) to trade back into the 3rd rd. That should alow the Texans to be able to fill most of the holes with quality players.

BoB/Rick/Gary wont do this because he's too conservative and would rather keep his own players, rather than taking a chance on guys in FA. If he doesn't take a few risks the Colts will be passing the Texans up soon in the AFC South standings. The Colts some how managed to get their QB (Luck) and have 44 mil in cap space. The Texans ? Oh well as fans there's nothing we can do. The Texans are run the way they are, and that's not going to change any time soon.
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Old 03-10-2013   #27
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
^^^^
This

Except I dont have the faith that you do in BoB/Rick/Gary. But there's nothing we can do about it.
HAHA yeah i am kind of iffy on it sometimes, but when i sit back and look at the last 5 drafts, Free Agency IMO they havent done to bad. Biggest mistake i see is their opinion/loyalty to Schaub.
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Old 03-10-2013   #28
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
We also picked KW out from the Bengals bench for a 7th...so there's that route.
I don't know about RFAs. There's Danario Alexander, but the Chargers will match any reasonable offer. I don't want to say there's zip out there in free agency. The question is, would Kubiak rather have one of these guys than Walter? Some guys that fit the WCO WR profile and would come cheap:

Mohamed Massaquoi - Has never played with a decent QB. Finished 2012 on IR.
Derek Hagan - JAG who has been hanging around the league.
Kevin Ogletree - Had some decent games for Dallas.
Austin Collie - Had some decent years with Peyton and the Colts. Missed most of 2012 with a knee injury.
Michael Jenkins - Big possession receiver who would likely get close to the vet minimum.
Ramses Barden - Been in the league 4 years with a total of 29 receptions.
David Nelson - Another guy coming off a knee injury. Had a pretty good 2011 season in Buffalo.

So you get one of these guys for around $1 million in 2013. Add in the Walter dead money, and that's $3 million. Or, get Walter to reduce his salary to $2 million and put his cap hit at $3miilion (which it was in 2012)? What would you do? I think I know what Kubiak would do, and that's keep Walter.

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Seriously, I would cut Wade/A. Smith and Walter. With that Savings I would try to sign Levitre in FA and a cheap vet like Danario Alexander/Riley Cooper type WR. Then draft Datone Jones in the 1st and Ryan Swope in the 2nd.
You would spend a lot more money signing Levitre than keeping Wade Smith. Alexander won't be that cheap (to keep the Chargers from matching) and Cooper is under contract.
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Old 03-10-2013   #29
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

One name that has popped up is Julian Edelman
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Old 03-10-2013   #30
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

They simply don't have the cap money to make big moves this year because they dealt out extensions to Duane Brown, Chris Meyers, ARIAN FOSTER, and Matt Schaub last offseason. Not to mention they have Cushing up in a contract year next season and JJ Watt will surely want to renegotiate his deal if he performs anywhere near as well as he did last season.

Keeping your best players costs money. If we can somehow get GQ back in the fold i'll be happy.
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Old 03-10-2013   #31
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
One name that has popped up is Julian Edelman
He's coming off another injury prone season, and won't come that cheap. I like him a lot (slot WR, returner, special teams coverage). But, the Pats will want him back if they can't re-sign Welker. And they have more cap room.
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Old 03-10-2013   #32
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I don't know about RFAs. There's Danario Alexander, but the Chargers will match any reasonable offer. I don't want to say there's zip out there in free agency. The question is, would Kubiak rather have one of these guys than Walter? Some guys that fit the WCO WR profile and would come cheap:

Mohamed Massaquoi - Has never played with a decent QB. Finished 2012 on IR.
Derek Hagan - JAG who has been hanging around the league.
Kevin Ogletree - Had some decent games for Dallas.
Austin Collie - Had some decent years with Peyton and the Colts. Missed most of 2012 with a knee injury.
Michael Jenkins - Big possession receiver who would likely get close to the vet minimum.
Ramses Barden - Been in the league 4 years with a total of 29 receptions.
David Nelson - Another guy coming off a knee injury. Had a pretty good 2011 season in Buffalo.

So you get one of these guys for around $1 million in 2013. Add in the Walter dead money, and that's $3 million. Or, get Walter to reduce his salary to $2 million and put his cap hit at $3miilion (which it was in 2012)? What would you do? I think I know what Kubiak would do, and that's keep Walter.
Louis Murphy is available and will likely come cheap.

Brandon Tate from Cinci is available and was pretty well regarded when he was drafted out of NC.

Devery Henderson wouldn't be a bad pick up from NO either.

Steve Smith would be available too from STL.

Thought I saw Steve Breaston from AZ would be available too.

Of these I'd love to take a look at Murphy. I do think the most likely scenario is asking Walter to take a paycut again and hope one of the other young WRs can step up and be more productive to put KW as the third.
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Old 03-10-2013   #33
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post

Of these I'd love to take a look at Murphy. I do think the most likely scenario is asking Walter to take a paycut again and hope one of the other young WRs can step up and be more productive to put KW as the third.
Murphy is OK. But has he ever had a season where he was more productive than Walter? Nope. Why would he become more productive now?
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Old 03-10-2013   #34
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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To be in such a horrible salary cap situation? Did Rick completely crap the bed on this one? It's not like we've won multiple super bowls yet we can't add anyone of note and we'll be extremely lucky to not lose more important players.

I apologize upfront for sounding rude but you seem ignorant (lack of knowledge) of NFL salary cap. Texans have gone from being apprx. $20 million over 2012 cap to apprx. $8 million under now. Kuharski's suggestions have been discussed at length for months on this MB and you can get some input by reading Dutchrudder's thread. We are in a good situation cap wise imo and have an outstanding mix of long term vets/younger guys.
As others have pointed out, IF and that is a big if, free agents are identified Ric Smith wants, players can be restructured to recapture money for them. Money isn't the problem, spending wisely to get biggest bang for the buck is. Huge contracts are risky even with our own players such as Schaub, AJ and Antonio Smith due to player age; however, the first two (criticize them or not) were two of top team players when contracted. Smith is young enough to get another restructure and play 2-3 more seasons.

Let's say we go after a WR like Wallace and he just doesn't work out, the MBs and talk show would explode & rightfully so. Smith proved he would spend McNair's $ when he went after Manning and Joseph then wrapped up AJ, Schaub, Foster and Duane Brown with great contracts. The last two could restructure in 2014 to capture Cushing.

Question is not can we spend but how we spend.
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Old 03-10-2013   #35
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

We've been spoiled.

Since 1994, the salary cap increased significantly year after year, until the end of the last CBA. I don't recall the terms used, or the exact reasoning, but there was a reason the 2011 salary cap was set below the 2009 salary cap. 2012's cap will be roughly equal to the 2009 cap.

I'd expect the cap will continue to increase, but no where near the rate at which it grew pre-2010.
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Old 03-10-2013   #36
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

You would spend a lot more money signing Levitre than keeping Wade Smith. Alexander won't be that cheap (to keep the Chargers from matching) and Cooper is under contract.[/quote]

Doesn't have to be Alexander, I meant that type of WR. Ramses-Barden/Hixon type woud do.

Cutting A.Smith and W.Smith would save about 9 mil. I'm not a cap guy so I'm probably wrong. With those cuts you should be able to sign Levitre and draft Jones to replace A.Smith.
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Old 03-10-2013   #37
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

Correct me if I'm wrong on the following, this is just more ramblings and musings than anything else:

The new CBA was geared toward making all rookie contracts expire after 4 years. The rookies are now slotted in terms of their first rookie deal; how much they earn...which has wiped out the huge-ass deals the 1st round rookies used to receive (in short: players cannot as easily "retire" after being awful for their first couple of years).

In addition, the cap has not been raised to higher levels than anticipated.

So we've got less money being spent on rookie contracts, which last for three more years after their initial rookie year expires.

Then you've got a less-than-stellar cap ceiling to work with, which SHOULD seem to be OK since rookie deals are lower in price and standard in length (4 years).

So what's causing the pinch for so many teams? Could it take about 3 years from now for free agent contracts to normalize a bit...essentially lowering the FA contract amounts because the rookie deals were lower, to begin with, so that should theoretically mean that that player's first FA contract would be relative to what they HAD been making the previous four seasons under the new CBA's slotted salary system.

I'm just trying to figure out how teams are expected to handle success on a long-term basis if the cap figures do not keep in-step with "inflation" of each year's new Mega Deals that then make other players' deals jump accordingly.

Hope that makes sense, ya' know what I'm saying? There has to be some sort of logical explanation as to where things WERE and where things are HEADED. Otherwise, what was the point of the new CBA's attempt to reign in rookie contracts but then to have a low cap ceiling each year that isn't growing proportionally with each new round of Free Agents???
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Old 03-10-2013   #38
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

I like the idea of getting a guy like Early Doucet if we can't get Walter to restructure. Even if we get a WR in round 1, we need people to upgrade that entire group.
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Old 03-10-2013   #39
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I apologize upfront for sounding rude but you seem ignorant (lack of knowledge) of NFL salary cap. Texans have gone from being apprx. $20 million over 2012 cap to apprx. $8 million under now. Kuharski's suggestions have been discussed at length for months on this MB and you can get some input by reading Dutchrudder's thread. We are in a good situation cap wise imo and have an outstanding mix of long term vets/younger guys.
As others have pointed out, IF and that is a big if, free agents are identified Ric Smith wants, players can be restructured to recapture money for them. Money isn't the problem, spending wisely to get biggest bang for the buck is. Huge contracts are risky even with our own players such as Schaub, AJ and Antonio Smith due to player age; however, the first two (criticize them or not) were two of top team players when contracted. Smith is young enough to get another restructure and play 2-3 more seasons.

Let's say we go after a WR like Wallace and he just doesn't work out, the MBs and talk show would explode & rightfully so. Smith proved he would spend McNair's $ when he went after Manning and Joseph then wrapped up AJ, Schaub, Foster and Duane Brown with great contracts. The last two could restructure in 2014 to capture Cushing.

Question is not can we spend but how we spend.
Ummm, the only reason BoB allowed Rick to sign JoJo and Manning was the defense was historically bad and the Texans were about to lose a large contingent of their loyal fanbase. (Thanks Wade for identifying JoJo/Manning and drafting Watt) They made the playoffs for the 1st time after these FA aquisitions. Coincedince, I think not.
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Old 03-10-2013   #40
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Default Re: What the hell did we do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We've been spoiled.

Since 1994, the salary cap increased significantly year after year, until the end of the last CBA. I don't recall the terms used, or the exact reasoning, but there was a reason the 2011 salary cap was set below the 2009 salary cap. 2012's cap will be roughly equal to the 2009 cap.

I'd expect the cap will continue to increase, but no where near the rate at which it grew pre-2010.
No Sir, its the players who are spoiled ! You think most of us as fans think that they should make half of what they make ? Hell no, but it is this generations and up coming (College athletes) who are spoiled by the big $$$. Once you give it, its hard to take away.
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