Texans - 2.4 Million Cap Carryover for 2013

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Another site with 2013 Texans Cap figures as of 3/1/13.

Not sure which sites are reliable. For example on top player AJ overthecap.com has a base salary of $9.5 mil while rotoworld has a base salary of $6.2 mil. That's a pretty big discrepancy.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

Another site with 2013 Texans Cap figures as of 3/1/13.

I wonder how many of those guys are going to be on the team.... like Dwight Jones. Didn't he say he was out? Didn't want to play football?


That site shows us with 51 players at $117M with a $123M cap. So right now, since Rick & Greg have been on siesta since Jan 13, we have $6M and 2 roster spots to sign Quin & Barwin.


We don't even have enough to franchise Quin & the deadline is tomorrow.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Not sure which sites are reliable. For example on top player AJ overthecap.com has a base salary of $9.5 mil while rotoworld has a base salary of $6.2 mil. That's a pretty big discrepancy.

You're correct. These figures are difficult to evaluate for reliability. However, I've found that when all things shake out, Spotrac.com seems to have the best handle on these numbers.......and they also quote AJ's base 2013 salary at $9.5 mil. Furthermore, Rotoworld seems to have also stepped in line with this figure.

ROTOWORLD

Andre Johnson triggered an escalator in his contract, raising his 2013 salary from $6.2 million to $9.5 million.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

That site shows us with 51 players at $117M with a $123M cap. So right now, since Rick & Greg have been on siesta since Jan 13, we have $6M and 2 roster spots to sign Quin & Barwin.


We don't even have enough to franchise Quin & the deadline is tomorrow.

Spotrac has the Texans with a $114,713,930 cap number (counting the $2.4 million rollover). That would allow enough to franchise Quin (at $6.9 million). But, they shouldn't. Quin is not worth that kind of money and wouldn't approach it on the open market. They should offer him Manning money ($5 mil/season) and if he refuses, let him test the waters. Quin doesn't create enough turnovers to make a big splash in free agency. He has more value to the Texans than another team.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Spotrac has the Texans with a $114,713,930 cap number (counting the $2.4 million rollover). That would allow enough to franchise Quin (at $6.9 million). But, they shouldn't. Quin is not worth that kind of money and wouldn't approach it on the open market. They should offer him Manning money ($5 mil/season) and if he refuses, let him test the waters. Quin doesn't create enough turnovers to make a big splash in free agency. He has more value to the Texans than another team.

I don't think its a matter of whether or not he's worth the money. I think its ultimately buying the Texans more time to work out a deal w/ out losing him for nothing. It seems other teams are interested in Quin so ensuring that the Texans will be compensated if someone chooses to pursue him sounds like a no-brained imo. If they do apply the tag it seems it is a worst case scenario if he ends up playing under it for the whole season. Quin needs to be re-signed, imo, because he is a quality player who offers versatility having been a former cb. Dunta wasn't a turnover machine & he struck it big in FA, so creating turnovers isn't necessarily a measuring stick on what a player will be offered in free agency imo. It only takes 1 team to act like a fool & overpay a player very similar to the Falcons w/ Dunta.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Spotrac has the Texans with a $114,713,930 cap number (counting the $2.4 million rollover). That would allow enough to franchise Quin (at $6.9 million). But, they shouldn't. Quin is not worth that kind of money and wouldn't approach it on the open market. They should offer him Manning money ($5 mil/season) and if he refuses, let him test the waters. Quin doesn't create enough turnovers to make a big splash in free agency. He has more value to the Texans than another team.

I don't think its a matter of whether or not he's worth the money. I think its ultimately buying the Texans more time to work out a deal w/ out losing him for nothing. It seems other teams are interested in Quin so ensuring that the Texans will be compensated if someone chooses to pursue him sounds like a no-brainer imo. If they do apply the tag it seems it is a worst case scenario if he ends up playing under it for the whole season. Quin needs to be re-signed, imo, because he is a quality player who offers versatility having been a former cb. Dunta wasn't a turnover machine & he struck it big in FA, so creating turnovers isn't necessarily a measuring stick on what a player will be offered in free agency imo. It only takes 1 team to act like a fool & overpay a player very similar to the Falcons w/ Dunta.

[tru80texan]

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...houston-texans

A link to another talking heads solution to our salary cap woes. It seems simple enough & I agree w/ most of it. Especially cutting Walter & allowing Cody to walk. Im sure there is more to it then what this writeup suggests, but the restructuring is something that is being reported by multiple teams daily to free up salary cap space. Teams that have salary cap issues, similar to the Texans, seem to be active & yes I realize we don't know what they are doing behind closed doors, but if they were serious about keeping Quin, Casey, or Barwin then you would think the Texans would be working quickly to create space before they hit the open market. I'm not for overpaying a player, but I wouldn't mind some activity being reported that they are freeing up money that gives us hope that attempts are being made to keep a key player or 2.

[paycheck71]

Originally Posted by tru80texan

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...houston-texans

A link to another talking heads solution to our salary cap woes. It seems simple enough & I agree w/ most of it. Especially cutting Walter & allowing Cody to walk. Im sure there is more to it then what this writeup suggests, but the restructuring is something that is being reported by multiple teams daily to free up salary cap space. Teams that have salary cap issues, similar to the Texans, seem to be active & yes I realize we don't know what they are doing behind closed doors, but if they were serious about keeping Quin, Casey, or Barwin then you would think the Texans would be working quickly to create space before they hit the open market. I'm not for overpaying a player, but I wouldn't mind some activity being reported that they are freeing up money that gives us hope that attempts are being made to keep a key player or 2.

I'm not a fan of restructuring every contract you can and pushing the cap hit into the future years. It's like getting out of college and maxing out your credit cards... Getting screwed for years. Restructuring one contract if it was built with that intent in the first place is one thing, but doing that with every contract you can is not good GM'ing...

[amazing80]

Originally Posted by paycheck71

I'm not a fan of restructuring every contract you can and pushing the cap hit into the future years. It's like getting out of college and maxing out your credit cards... Getting screwed for years. Restructuring one contract if it was built with that intent in the first place is one thing, but doing that with every contract you can is not good GM'ing...

in the nfl, sure it is. Keep pushing Ajs deal and Smiths deal so you never have to pay them that big sum against the cap. Smith could be cut in a few years and AJ will retire in a few years. As for JJo, that one will be tricky.

And I like the idea of locking up Cushing, but I feel he may want to play a year before getting a deal, hed be worth a lot less if signed now

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by paycheck71

I'm not a fan of restructuring every contract you can and pushing the cap hit into the future years. It's like getting out of college and maxing out your credit cards... Getting screwed for years. Restructuring one contract if it was built with that intent in the first place is one thing, but doing that with every contract you can is not good GM'ing...

I'm not a salary cap expert nor will I ever care enough to get in depth w/ it, but what I've picked up over time is that if a restructure happens it normally converts a base salary that counts against the salary cap into a bonus of some sort. The bonus is guaranteed money now & normally it's spread over the remaining length of the contract. The issue w/ this is if the player is cut before the contract expires then that remaining bonus that has been spread out becomes "dead money" against the cap. So ultimately the team gets hit hard by that bonus in a short period of time against the cap space that becomes useless for a year or 2. This seems to be an issue if their is potential to cut the player in the future because no one can see the future. There is very rarely a player whom is off limits to being cut, but you would believe someone such as Andre may qualify. This is my limited knowledge concerning restructures, but it does seem to be helpful tool if utilized properly & it seems many teams utilize it to their advantage to create space & remain competitive by retaining or obtaining key players. I'm just not sure why the Texans seem reluctant to do the same as it seems we could lose multiple starters this offseason.

I'm sure there is quite a bit more to restructuring & how it effects the cap so if anyone can enlighten us I know I would appreciate it.

[76Texan]

I'm not a cap expert, but I'll share what I think I know.
The NFL has a "hard" cap that a team needs to stay under (otherwise the penalty can be severe.)

The Texans, like a good majority of the league is always near that figure as they try to build a team to win.
They do restructure contracts, kicking the cans down the road; but you can't overdo it lest you becomes the US government.

To be able to get the most bang for your buck, the best way is to hit in the draft, then fill the rest of your roster with cheap FA acquisition that best fit your system; that is after you put your "master plan" in with the core players that you're comfortable with.

The problem with the Texans has been that their core players haven't been able to stay healthy as much as some of the better teams that went deep in the play-offs.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by tru80texan

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...houston-texans

A link to another talking heads solution to our salary cap woes. It seems simple enough & I agree w/ most of it. Especially cutting Walter & allowing Cody to walk. Im sure there is more to it then what this writeup suggests, but the restructuring is something that is being reported by multiple teams daily to free up salary cap space. Teams that have salary cap issues, similar to the Texans, seem to be active & yes I realize we don't know what they are doing behind closed doors, but if they were serious about keeping Quin, Casey, or Barwin then you would think the Texans would be working quickly to create space before they hit the open market. I'm not for overpaying a player, but I wouldn't mind some activity being reported that they are freeing up money that gives us hope that attempts are being made to keep a key player or 2.

So PK wants us to push about 15+ million in salary into the next 3 year's caps, and for what? To sign Quin? WTF is the point in doing all that and screwing ourselves for the next 3 years? If you want a surefire way to NOT retain Cushing, then pushing all that money to next year and beyond is the way to do it. This guy is a Titans fan, and I don't think he put enough thought into that "plan" to make it worthwhile. I could see if he thinks Cushing is worth 10m a year, and Quin is worth 5m a year, but that's just crazy talk. Cush should be locked up for about 7-10m a year, because that's about what ILBs get, but I can't see Quin warranting that much money. Even if they did that, Cush wouldn't immediately jump up to 7-10m this season, unless they wanted him to, which would be pointless IMO.

The Texans could extend Cushing this year like they did with Duane Brown and push some of the signing bonus into the present year, but coming off injury makes me not want to do it until the offseason. Cush can be F tagged in the offseason, so he's not going anywhere. We saw what happened when you pay a guy too early with Schaub, so I would hate for the team to make the same mistake again.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

So PK wants us to push about 15+ million in salary into the next 3 year's caps, and for what? To sign Quin? WTF is the point in doing all that and screwing ourselves for the next 3 years? If you want a surefire way to NOT retain Cushing, then pushing all that money to next year and beyond is the way to do it. This guy is a Titans fan, and I don't think he put enough thought into that "plan" to make it worthwhile. I could see if he thinks Cushing is worth 10m a year, and Quin is worth 5m a year, but that's just crazy talk. Cush should be locked up for about 7-10m a year, because that's about what ILBs get, but I can't see Quin warranting that much money. Even if they did that, Cush wouldn't immediately jump up to 7-10m this season, unless they wanted him to, which would be pointless IMO.

The Texans could extend Cushing this year like they did with Duane Brown and push some of the signing bonus into the present year, but coming off injury makes me not want to do it until the offseason. Cush can be F tagged in the offseason, so he's not going anywhere. We saw what happened when you pay a guy too early with Schaub, so I would hate for the team to make the same mistake again.

Now here is were I'm not quite sure why you believe it effects the next 3 years? If it's converted to a bonus that is spread out over years then my understanding is it only comes back to haunt you IF the player is eventually cut & then it becomes "dead money". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if that is the case then that's were the GM must be careful on whom he restructures especially if it's a player w/ a lengthy contract or a player who wont make it past a year or 2 on the team. It seems players that are "core" players that you plan to build around would be the focus to ensure they stick around & the converted bonus won't come back to haunt them.

I do believe Cushing & Antonio should be extended to help lower their hits, but I could understand why Cushing would wait. Walter should be cut IMO. He makes too much for very minimal contribution. I do believe re-signing Quin is important because he is a key member of the team. His replacement will either be a rookie or a cast off such as Gerald Sensbaugh(used him because we all know Wade loves his ex-cowturds) which, IMO, would be a step back & not forward for a team that is somewhat built to win now. Quin is a good player, IMO, who fits the system well. Im not saying overpay him, but they should work hard to retain him to avoid a regression at the position.

[steelbtexan]

Schaub' contract will be the cap killer if he continues to regress like a certain Doc has predicted.

I dont know how the Texans do business, but other teams like the Pats/Eagles etc... seem to be able to keep their core players and add atleast 1 high profile FA every yr.

Rick/Olsen seem to be in over their heads when it comes to cap management.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Schaub' contract will be the cap killer if he continues to regress like a certain Doc has predicted.

I dont know how the Texans do business, but other teams like the Pats/Eagles etc... seem to be able to keep their core players and add atleast 1 high profile FA every yr.

Rick/Olsen seem to be in over their heads when it comes to cap management.

This is what I see as well. I also see the cowturds working to keep their players & despite being in salary cap trouble they somehow manage to retain their players as well as add decent players via FA. I know they haven't had much success, but that doesn't mean that they don't have some talented players.

I agree that Smith hasn't done much to impress this offeseason if he can't find ways to retain players simply because their rookie contracts expired.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Schaub' contract will be the cap killer if he continues to regress like a certain Doc has predicted.

I dont know how the Texans do business, but other teams like the Pats/Eagles etc... seem to be able to keep their core players and add atleast 1 high profile FA every yr.

Rick/Olsen seem to be in over their heads when it comes to cap management.

Dream team!

[paycheck71]

Originally Posted by amazing80

in the nfl, sure it is. Keep pushing Ajs deal and Smiths deal so you never have to pay them that big sum against the cap. Smith could be cut in a few years and AJ will retire in a few years. As for JJo, that one will be tricky.

And I like the idea of locking up Cushing, but I feel he may want to play a year before getting a deal, hed be worth a lot less if signed now

Pushing the cap hit into future years is just delaying the inevitable - that you WILL have to take that cap hit. Every penny you pay a player will count against the cap sooner or later. And if you make that the way you operate your business, you will be caught chasing your tail, like the Cowboys, where they've had millions in dead money because they cut players that had been previously "restructured." Now they're doing the same thing, and IMO, it's a terrible way to run your football team.

[paycheck71]

Originally Posted by tru80texan

I'm not a salary cap expert nor will I ever care enough to get in depth w/ it, but what I've picked up over time is that if a restructure happens it normally converts a base salary that counts against the salary cap into a bonus of some sort. The bonus is guaranteed money now & normally it's spread over the remaining length of the contract. The issue w/ this is if the player is cut before the contract expires then that remaining bonus that has been spread out becomes "dead money" against the cap. So ultimately the team gets hit hard by that bonus in a short period of time against the cap space that becomes useless for a year or 2. This seems to be an issue if their is potential to cut the player in the future because no one can see the future. There is very rarely a player whom is off limits to being cut, but you would believe someone such as Andre may qualify. This is my limited knowledge concerning restructures, but it does seem to be helpful tool if utilized properly & it seems many teams utilize it to their advantage to create space & remain competitive by retaining or obtaining key players. I'm just not sure why the Texans seem reluctant to do the same as it seems we could lose multiple starters this offseason.

I'm sure there is quite a bit more to restructuring & how it effects the cap so if anyone can enlighten us I know I would appreciate it.

I'm not a cap expert either, but you're basically correct, you take a players current year's salary, convert it all but the minimum (or whatever amount) into bonus, pay it now, but spread the cap hit over the remainder of the contract. The problem isn't just dead money if the player is cut, it's the fact that his cap hit for every year in the future has now gone up in exchange for creating cap room this year. You're pretty much borrowing cap room from the future years.

I think i'ts OK to do that occasionally, but I'm definitely against restructuring 3 guys all in the same year.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by paycheck71

I'm not a cap expert either, but you're basically correct, you take a players current year's salary, convert it all but the minimum (or whatever amount) into bonus, pay it now, but spread the cap hit over the remainder of the contract. The problem isn't just dead money if the player is cut, it's the fact that his cap hit for every year in the future has now gone up in exchange for creating cap room this year. You're pretty much borrowing cap room from the future years.

I think i'ts OK to do that occasionally, but I'm definitely against restructuring 3 guys all in the same year.

it's credit card style cap management...borrowing Peter to pay Paul stuff. Dealing with your problems tomorrow instead of today.

[paycheck71]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

So PK wants us to push about 15+ million in salary into the next 3 year's caps, and for what? To sign Quin? WTF is the point in doing all that and screwing ourselves for the next 3 years? If you want a surefire way to NOT retain Cushing, then pushing all that money to next year and beyond is the way to do it. This guy is a Titans fan, and I don't think he put enough thought into that "plan" to make it worthwhile. I could see if he thinks Cushing is worth 10m a year, and Quin is worth 5m a year, but that's just crazy talk. Cush should be locked up for about 7-10m a year, because that's about what ILBs get, but I can't see Quin warranting that much money. Even if they did that, Cush wouldn't immediately jump up to 7-10m this season, unless they wanted him to, which would be pointless IMO.

The guy is from NJ, I seriously doubt he's a Titans fan even though he covered them for a few years. Other than that, I agree with you completely. He just didn't do enough research for his article, and there is no way I'm restructuring that many guys at once.