Reasonable price for Barwin? *UPDATE* Signed by Eagles

[HOU-TEX]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Just gotta say..... I'm worried that we haven't heard anything yet from the Texans concerning free agents.

Tomorrow is March 1st, the deadline is March 12th. Unless there is a lot of cap room that we haven't heard about yet, I would think the Texans would be making cuts, restructuring contracts, trading players, something.

We've got Connor to try to sign & we've got Quin to try to sign. Even if we can't get either of them, extra cap room would be nice.

I don't know how the Texans F.O. work, but I'd like to think if I were running the show, I would have a plan. How much cap space do we need to sign the guys we need. How do we clear that much cap space without hurting us too much in the future. I'd have decided which of my FAs I want to keep, & I would pursue keeping them. I'd have decided which FAs I'm not to worried about keeping & I'd try to trade them if I can, or go ahead let them know, & cut them. I'd have an idea of what players on other teams I'd like to try to acquire & open talks with those GMs.

Seems to me, this is too difficult for the Texans to do. I get the feeling that we're trying to sign Barwin then when that is done we'll move on to trying to sign Quin. Then we'll move on to whatever else they want to accomplish this off-season.

Knowing how tight the Texans keep things to their vest, I'm certain they're working on it and maybe even done something. Who knows

I think Monday's the deadline for tag designation.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Lucky

What did Barwin do in 2012 that Reed did not? I don't get why Reed is a failed project but it's a bad time to lose Barwin.

The Texans could have franchised Schaub for the same cap hit, or less, than his new contract ($17.5 million).

Schaub's cap for 2012 was $12 m and for this season 11m. Does not get close to Tag until 2015. The $17.5 may be the signing bonus which the did pay up front but does not all hit cap.

I keep reading your post, are you saying the tag would have been less than his 2012 base (4.4) + his bonus ($17.5m) paid up front? If yes, that is correct but has nothing to do with cap hit.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Just gotta say..... I'm worried that we haven't heard anything yet from the Texans concerning free agents.

Tomorrow is March 1st, the deadline is March 12th. Unless there is a lot of cap room that we haven't heard about yet, I would think the Texans would be making cuts, restructuring contracts, trading players, something.

We've got Connor to try to sign & we've got Quin to try to sign. Even if we can't get either of them, extra cap room would be nice.

I don't know how the Texans F.O. work, but I'd like to think if I were running the show, I would have a plan. How much cap space do we need to sign the guys we need. How do we clear that much cap space without hurting us too much in the future. I'd have decided which of my FAs I want to keep, & I would pursue keeping them. I'd have decided which FAs I'm not to worried about keeping & I'd try to trade them if I can, or go ahead let them know, & cut them. I'd have an idea of what players on other teams I'd like to try to acquire & open talks with those GMs.

Seems to me, this is too difficult for the Texans to do. I get the feeling that we're trying to sign Barwin then when that is done we'll move on to trying to sign Quin. Then we'll move on to whatever else they want to accomplish this off-season.

You actually think Texans do not have a plan just because they do not post on this MB? I think Barwin will go like negotiations did with Mario Williams. Smith makes an offer then waits. I think it will end the same with some team willing to overpay Connor.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by badboy

You actually think Texans do not have a plan just because they do not post on this MB? I think Barwin will go like negotiations did with Mario Williams. Smith makes an offer then waits. I think it will end the same with some team willing to overpay Connor.

I think the Texans have a plan that I'm not comfortable with (I know that means jack to the Texans, I'm just saying). They should know what they want to do this offseason & should be making moves to do that. If their plan is anything like ours, then there is a need to clear cap room. I would think there would be some news about the Texans making moves to clear cap space. I'd appreciate it if the Texans would place that news here on the Message Board, but if they don't I'm sure one of their wonderful fans would.

I think they need a WR, an ILB, & a safety; would be nice to get a RT. They can try to fill those positions through the draft, through FA, or through trade. The draft is a couple of months away. FA doesn't start until March 12th, right now would be a good time to work out a trade.

The 49ers are in a better position than us, yet they just made a trade that cleared cap room & added assets to their draft capital. The Jets have made a lot of moves to clear cap space & prepare for the 2013 league year. we're hearing news from other teams around the NFL preparing for the new year.

The Texans are sitting on their thumbs waiting on Connor Barwin when there are a lot of things they need to be doing.

But I'm not the GM.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Just gotta say..... I'm worried that we haven't heard anything yet from the Texans concerning free agents.

Tomorrow is March 1st, the deadline is March 12th. Unless there is a lot of cap room that we haven't heard about yet, I would think the Texans would be making cuts, restructuring contracts, trading players, something.

We've got Connor to try to sign & we've got Quin to try to sign. Even if we can't get either of them, extra cap room would be nice.

I don't know how the Texans F.O. work, but I'd like to think if I were running the show, I would have a plan. How much cap space do we need to sign the guys we need. How do we clear that much cap space without hurting us too much in the future. I'd have decided which of my FAs I want to keep, & I would pursue keeping them. I'd have decided which FAs I'm not to worried about keeping & I'd try to trade them if I can, or go ahead let them know, & cut them. I'd have an idea of what players on other teams I'd like to try to acquire & open talks with those GMs.

Seems to me, this is too difficult for the Texans to do. I get the feeling that we're trying to sign Barwin then when that is done we'll move on to trying to sign Quin. Then we'll move on to whatever else they want to accomplish this off-season.

I think this "silence" has a bit to do with evaluating who did what at the combine and deciding who (if anyone) fit their scheme(s) best among the rookies on display. Besides, which F/A's out there should they be in a hurry to snag? Who has been given their walking papers from other teams that we would be coveting - and that we can afford??

So why make any moves until they've targeted guys they think can fill those holes? Why broadcast team needs (by cutting guys loose) before you have to?

Do you think we'd be bargaining from a position of strength, either with a F/A or for a trade, is the agent/GM knows we just cut (to pick a name) Barwin and now HAVE to replace him?

Naaah... I wouldn't make moves until I had to either. Too early.

[paycheck71]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I

Naaah... I wouldn't make moves until I had to either. Too early.

Plus, why start making moves until you know what the cap is going to be. Which was announced today, and is about $1.5MM higher than expected.

@mortreport: Teams get more money to spend - salary cap for new league year is $123.9 million per team after accounting of league revenues, per sources.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I think this "silence" has a bit to do with evaluating who did what at the combine and deciding who (if anyone) fit their scheme(s) best among the rookies on display. Besides, which F/A's out there should they be in a hurry to snag? Who has been given their walking papers from other teams that we would be coveting - and that we can afford??

So why make any moves until they've targeted guys they think can fill those holes? Why broadcast team needs (by cutting guys loose) before you have to?

Do you think we'd be bargaining from a position of strength, either with a F/A or for a trade, is the agent/GM knows we just cut (to pick a name) Barwin and now HAVE to replace him?

Naaah... I wouldn't make moves until I had to either. Too early.

I wouldn't base too much on who I like in the draft. There's no guarantee we can get any player we target at 27.

I would think best case scenario, decide what my team needs to look like today & move forward. Cap room should have been cleared to facilitate a trade where we would be able to get under the cap by March 12. I'm looking at March 12 also because I know there are players out there that teams would like to get something for before losing them for nothing either this year or next. Some of this may be pie in the sky stuff, like Roc Charmicle for Jarius Byrd.

At the very least, some of this stuff would be to make the NFL think we're looking for something we are not.... a QB for instance. To increase the chances that a team ahead of us would pick a QB in the draft pushing players we really want further down to us.

In my mind, Richard Smith has done a fine job in some areas & absolutely nothing in others. Last year, the new league year creeped up on him & he panicked because he wasn't ready, & our team suffered for it (if you consider 12-4 suffering & many of us do). Looks like 2013 is going to go the same way. & 2014 as well for that matter.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by badboy

You actually think Texans do not have a plan just because they do not post on this MB? I think Barwin will go like negotiations did with Mario Williams. Smith makes an offer then waits. I think it will end the same with some team willing to overpay Connor.

1st & foremost, I want to be clear that I'm not a Mario fan & am extremely happy that he is no longer a Texan. He was more hype then production & was extremely overrated & injury prone. I'm glad he is now the Bills problem, but in all honesty I don't think the Texans ever really made a real offer to Mario based on his following statements.

"It is a decision that the general manager (Rick Smith) made," Williams said. "Opened the door and pretty much gave me a one way exit. That was it. At the end of the day it is what it is. It is part of the business. People do not realize what really happened at that point in time. That is fine. The fans can only go off of what they hear everybody else say. It is part of the game. I am here now and just have to make the best of it."

Williams felt like the Texans weren't even willing to negotiate when free agency began. He said Houston never even made him an offer.

"It is the simple fact of everybody looks at it like you just up and left," he said. "You do not know the fact of basically being told, 'We are not giving you anything as far as an offer or anything like that.' Your hands are tied in that aspect. Everybody else looks at it like that you just went into free agency and left.

"Obviously there was plenty of time for things to be done and it was not," he said. "That is fine with me. I just wish everybody else that runs their mouth, says this and that knew the whole story about it before making a decision about me — just abandoning the fans, the team and everything else like that — that is not my role. I am not that type of guy."

I can't say I'm disappointed about how the Texans handled Mario, but I do hope this isn't how they handle Barwin. I still believe Barwin has potential to be a good pass rusher. Unfortunately, I agree that some team will probably overpay & he will be gone. I'm just hoping that they can at least re-sign Quin. I think Rick Smith has been the culprit in creating most of this salary cap mess & have so-so feelings about his job performance thus far, BUT the one thing he did right was NOT resign Mario & cripple this team w/ an overpaid diva eating up tons of salary cap.

[Texan_Bill]

G) Free

[leebigeztx]

I think barwin is on par with ahmad brooks. Here is a link to his deal.

http://m.nfl.com/news/09000d5d827457e5/

Brooks got 6yr 44m with 17m guarantee. That's a little less than 3m per in g-money and little more than 4+ in salary.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

I think barwin is on par with ahmad brooks. Here is a link to his deal.

http://m.nfl.com/news/09000d5d827457e5/

Brooks got 6yr 44m with 17m guarantee. That's a little less than 3m per in g-money and little more than 4+ in salary.

I don't think we can afford that without making cuts we should have seen by now.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

I think barwin is on par with ahmad brooks. Here is a link to his deal.

http://m.nfl.com/news/09000d5d827457e5/

Brooks got 6yr 44m with 17m guarantee. That's a little less than 3m per in g-money and little more than 4+ in salary.

I dunno.... if we pay Barwin $3Mil+ per year guaranteed, what the H is Watt gonna ask for??

$3 mil+ is too high for Barwin. Just my

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I dunno.... if we pay Barwin $3Mil+ per year guaranteed, what the H is Watt gonna ask for??

$3 mil+ is too high for Barwin. Just my

I don't think it matters what we pay Barwin as far as Watt is concerned. He's going to be looking at Mario's 6/$96M ($50M guaranteed). Factor in 2 years for inflation (if Watt's on a 4 year deal) He's going to be looking for more than $50M guaranteed, more than $100M

[76Texan]

I think Barwin is gone. You just can't afford to pay a 3-4 OLB like a 4-3 DE unless he's really, really good; and Barwin isn't.

[HOU-TEX]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I think Barwin is gone. You just can't afford to pay a 3-4 OLB like a 4-3 DE unless he's really, really good; and Barwin isn't.

And I think I'd be fine with that. I like Barwin a lot, but dadgum, not being able to win one on one battles in a contract year just irks me a little. With JJ and Smith commanding double teams inside, your OLB's should be having field days with one on ones. They didn't and we need to get better

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I dunno.... if we pay Barwin $3Mil+ per year guaranteed, what the H is Watt gonna ask for??

$3 mil+ is too high for Barwin. Just my

He's not going to ask for anything for 2-3 years. After this year, the team can exercise the 5th year 1st round pick option on him for about 7 million fully guaranteed (average of the top 3 through 25 salaries at his position). Then we can always franchise tag him in 2016 to ensure he stays a Texan. JJ Watt is the least of our cap concerns really, he's locked in for a loooong time. By then, we will be out from under Schaub and Andre's terrible deals, so it's not that much of a problem anyways, unless we sign some really expensive players.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I think the Texans have a plan that I'm not comfortable with (I know that means jack to the Texans, I'm just saying). They should know what they want to do this offseason & should be making moves to do that. If their plan is anything like ours, then there is a need to clear cap room. I would think there would be some news about the Texans making moves to clear cap space. I'd appreciate it if the Texans would place that news here on the Message Board, but if they don't I'm sure one of their wonderful fans would.

I think they need a WR, an ILB, & a safety; would be nice to get a RT. They can try to fill those positions through the draft, through FA, or through trade. The draft is a couple of months away. FA doesn't start until March 12th, right now would be a good time to work out a trade.

The 49ers are in a better position than us, yet they just made a trade that cleared cap room & added assets to their draft capital. The Jets have made a lot of moves to clear cap space & prepare for the 2013 league year. we're hearing news from other teams around the NFL preparing for the new year.

The Texans are sitting on their thumbs waiting on Connor Barwin when there are a lot of things they need to be doing.

But I'm not the GM.

Playing GM is half the fun of being on MB. For me the lack of "progress" is my impatience. I am not sure we have a player of trade value that we can part with. I can see trading picks for a player but would think both trading partners would wait until draft day. Until we begin to re-sign our own free agents, we have cleared cap room with all their salaries. As stated on other threads, many of those will not be back. I also do not expect renogiation of contracts until a need for that space (specific player) has been selected. I would guess that Texans have already spoken to certain cap heavy Texans + their agents about possible reworks IF a player has agreed to come to Houston. IIRC Schaub's deal was a surprise and came after Barwin turned down his offer.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I don't think it matters what we pay Barwin as far as Watt is concerned. He's going to be looking at Mario's 6/$96M ($50M guaranteed). Factor in 2 years for inflation (if Watt's on a 4 year deal) He's going to be looking for more than $50M guaranteed, more than $100M

Oh yeah, mario's last way of putting the screws to houston. Mario definitely drove up the price tag for Watt & as most of us can now acknowledge...Mario is nothing compared to Watt. The Bills grossly overpaid for Mario & just like Dunta I expect Mario to be a salary cap casualty in 2-3 yrs based on his lack of production. Watt could easily set a new mark on top salaries if he continues to produce at or around his current level.

Concerning Barwin, this is what bothers me...the NFL Network is reporting that Barwin is willing to sign at a discount w/ a Super Bowl contender, so what does that say about what he believes the Texans are capable of if he chose not to sign at a discount here & wants to test the market? That bothers me that 1 of our own players isn't willing to give a discount to the Texans, but on record saying he will for a Super Bowl contender. I do agree Barwin seems to be gone, but it seems to be by his own doing if he is choosing not to take a discount for the Texans.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX

And I think I'd be fine with that. I like Barwin a lot, but dadgum, not being able to win one on one battles in a contract year just irks me a little. With JJ and Smith commanding double teams inside, your OLB's should be having field days with one on ones. They didn't and we need to get better

Dang, Barwin is near the very bottom of a long list of edge defenders FA graded by ProfootballFocus:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...dge-defenders/

His grade is also very near to the bottom of the LB list as well (all 4-3 LBs and 34 ILBs).

He's also the lowest-graded Texans Free Agent, LOL!

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Dang, Barwin is near the very bottom of a long list of edge defenders FA graded by ProfootballFocus:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...dge-defenders/

His grade is also very near to the bottom of the LB list as well (all 4-3 LBs and 34 ILBs).

He's also the lowest-graded Texans Free Agent, LOL!

And once again, by your sites own admission the rating does not tell the whole story. I'm a big stats guy myself & believe for the most part the numbers do tell the story, BUT in this case I have a very hard time believing players such as Nading & Victor Butler are ranked higher then the likes of Van den Boche( I'm pretty sure I spelled that wrong...sorry), Cliff Avril, & yes Barwin. That rating system seems a bit skewed to say the least because I would take the latter 3 over Nading.