Tom Brady extension

[badboy]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

This is so tired and weak. Schaub was drafted in behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one considered an "elite" QB. Even with that there were calls in Atlanta for Schaub to take over. Multiple reports at the time said they traded him away to end the controversy.

As usual you miss the meat talking about dessert. If Schaub or Yates outplayed the starter, he would have been the starter.

[Double Barrel]

Just to let y'all know, I'm in this conversation purely for the fun of it.

The fact of the matter is that none of the Texans QBs have impressed me, so I'm not at all dislodged in any sort of way with Schaub being a starter over Yates and Keenum.

Wow, what an exciting group of QBs, I tell ya'.

My take is that if the Texans go deep into the playoffs, it will be in spite of the QBs on the roster. Hope I'm wrong, but my perspective is based on history, not optimism of future unproven potential.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Just to let y'all know, I'm in this conversation purely for the fun of it.

The fact of the matter is that none of the Texans QBs have impressed me, so I'm not at all dislodged in any sort of way with Schaub being a starter over Yates and Keenum.

Wow, what an exciting group of QBs, I tell ya'.

My take is that if the Texans go deep into the playoffs, it will be in spite of the QBs on the roster. Hope I'm wrong, but my perspective is based on history, not optimism of future unproven potential.

[Double Barrel]

lol! It's all good, man. I sincerely hope y'all are making me eat some crow next January because Schaub proved me completely off-base with my perspectives.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

lol! It's all good, man. I sincerely hope y'all are making me eat some crow next January because Schaub proved me completely off-base with my perspectives.

Oh I don't think you're wrong about Schaub, I just think you are overvaluing Yates. I'm all for drafting a QB this year. I like Barkley and Wilson as potential picks in the 2nd.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by badboy

As usual you miss the meat talking about dessert. If Schaub or Yates outplayed the starter, he would have been the starter.

For anyone with any sense of NFL history to assert this is just ludicrous. Where in practice? It is a rare event to see a top tier, highly paid QB benched without injury for a backup based on practice (no Alex Smith does not count and even there injury was involved). Eventually aging QB's are let go and there are certainly some exceptions but they are rare. Brady - started because of injury. Rodgers - didn't start until Favre was dumped. Young - didn't start until an oft-injured (including the whole prior season) Montana was dumped. It took Bob Lilly at the request of the team going to Tom Landry to get Staubach to start. That is the meat.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

This is so tired and weak. Schaub was drafted in behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one considered an "elite" QB. Even with that there were calls in Atlanta for Schaub to take over. Multiple reports at the time said they traded him away to end the controversy.

And in 2007 we had people wanting Sage over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

And in 2012 we had people thinking Tj should start over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

But because Atlantans wanted to start Schaub over Vick, it meant something?

Yep... I'm missing something here.

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

My take is that if the Texans go deep into the playoffs, it will be in spite of the QBs on the roster. Hope I'm wrong, but my perspective is based on history, not optimism of future unproven potential.

By that thinking, our early exit from the play offs had nothing to do with our QB. I'm not a big Schaub fan either, but if The Patriots losing in the AFC Championship game does not mean they need another QB, I don't believe the Texans losing the week before means we need another QB, or that Schaub can't take us farther. Too many things went wrong to put it all on our QB.

If there's an Aaron Rogers or Ben Roethlisberger, or even a Jay Cutler in this draft I'm all about doing what it takes to get him. But I also understand there's a better than good chance he'll turn out to be J.P. Losman, or Tim Couch.

I'm not the kind of guy who will cry that my HC/GM won't take chances, but then cry when they do & it doesn't work out.

I'd rather be 12-4 with a win in a home play-off game with Matt Schaub & Gary Kubiak, than whatever the Cleveland Browns are doing, or the KC Chiefs, or the Detroit Lions, or the Buffalo Bills, or the Minnesota Vikings, or Oakland Raiders, or the St. Louis Rams. That's the youngest franchise in the league other than the Texans & 6 of the 10 teams that hired a new HC in 2006.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

hmmmmm, what part of my post answers your question?



Since Matt did not play in a playoff game until his 9th season, I did not see the point of post-season rookie play in my comparison.



yeah, nice, let's compare stats of a 5th round 3rd string rookie without an off-season to an 8-9 year veteran with years of experience with the same receivers. That's so academic and intellectually honest.

[/sarcasm]



Alright, throw those in there if it makes you feel better. Matt had 1 and TJ had 4. Not sure if those were lost or just fumbles, but makes no difference to me.

My point was not to advocate TJ Yates or act like he's something that he's not.

The point was that Schaub is not all that, and the fact that he can be compared to a backup QB is indicative of his not-even-close-to-elite status as an NFL QB.

I honestly do not understand what he has accomplished to warrant the homerish defense by so many Texans fans. Not a knock on you or anyone in particular, but I am not convinced in even the slightest way that he can or will do much more at 32 years old than play good enough regular season football to get us a post-season loss.

I wanted him to be great. But after January, I cannot wear blinders to Schaub's obvious handicaps as a QB. I'm a fan, just not that kind of fan.

BTW, Ed Reed has made lots of QBs look foolish. Perhaps that's why he's a first ballot HoFer?



Yates is what he is right now, and has a 1-1 post season record just like our much heralded pedestrian starting QB.

Y'all can rip on TJ Yates all you want (I'm not his defender), but all it does is make Schaub that much more average in the bigger picture.

Like I have said on multiple occasions:





BTW, I understand that Schaub has no competition for a couple of years and will be our starting QB for probably two more seasons at minimum. He's wonderful that way and Kubiak woud not want to put a dent in his mental state.

Just don't get your hopes up that he has it in him to carry this team in any sort of way. Winning it all with Schaub will require all aspects of this team to play beyond what we have seen so far. The Ravens won their first SB with Trent Dilfer, so we have that to hope for, I guess.

My question was rhetorical. You can keep playing up Yates' stats when hey are good and downplay the bad. Call it whatever you want but that's what you're doing. Schaub isn't elite or great but he is far and away better than Yates and a comparable playoff record is meaningless

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

And in 2007 we had people wanting Sage over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

And in 2012 we had people thinking Tj should start over Matt.... didn't mean anything.

But because Atlantans wanted to start Schaub over Vick, it meant something?

Yep... I'm missing something here.

Yeah, you are as in the point. Schaub was on the bench behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one who was considered a superstar. Get it now? The idea he was going to outplay Vick in practice and replace him is a joke.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Yeah, you are as in the point. Schaub was on the bench behind the highest paid player in the NFL and one who was considered a superstar. Get it now? The idea he was going to outplay Vick in practice and replace him is a joke.

Almost as funny as starting Sage over a guy we just traded two 2nds & gave a starter's contract. Or starting Tj over that same guy who was considered a top 10 QB at that time (the beginning of the 2012 season).

It's all funny. Same joke, different punchline. It was goofy & unrealistic to think as much about Schaub replacing Vick. It was goofy & unrealistic to think Sage or Tj would replace Schaub.


badboy is right, if Schaub or Tj flashed like Russell Wilson did (in practice mind you) they would have been starting. Yes, Vick was a rockstar, & Schaub was a pro bowl MVP, but if they led their coach to believe they had a better chance of winning, they would have been starters.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

badboy is right, if Schaub or Tj flashed like Russell Wilson did (in practice mind you) they would have been starting. Yes, Vick was a rockstar, & Schaub was a pro bowl MVP, but if they led their coach to believe they had a better chance of winning, they would have been starters.

Do you realize what a joke that is? OK, name all the perfectly healthy rock star QB's who have been benched in their prime. It should be easy since it is as easy as outperforming them in practice. Must happen all the time. And no Wilson doesn't count since his competition was unproven.

The idea coaches don't have their thumb on the scale to tip it toward starters, high profile players and highly paid players is well laughable.

PS - Schaub wasn't a pro-bowl QB at the time.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Do you realize what a joke that is? OK, name all the perfectly healthy rock star QB's who have been benched in their prime. It should be easy since it is as easy as outperforming them in practice. Must happen all the time. And no Wilson doesn't count since his competition was unproven.

The idea coaches don't have their thumb on the scale to tip it toward starters, high profile players and highly paid players is well laughable.

PS - Schaub wasn't a pro-bowl QB at the time.

I think we're saying the same thing. Schaub wasn't going to beat out Vick. Tj was not going to beat out Schaub. Practically the same reason. The team just made a major investment in the incumbant, more or less hitching their wagons.

But not everyone thought Vick's performance warranted a $100M contract. I seriously doubt you thought Vick deserved a $100M contract. & just like people were saying we'll never win a championship with Schaub, people were saying the Falcons would never win a championship with Vick.

Matt today is a better QB than Vick was in 2005. But many will argue Vick was the better football player. Vick was criticized because he depended more on his athleticism and wasn't very productive from the pocket, where Schaub is criticized for his lack of athleticism and production outside the pocket.

Both QBs were extended even though many believed there were unanswered questions.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Yeah.... I'm from the school that QBs don't win or lose games. They either lead the team to be in a position to win or lose. Romo gives that Dallas team a chance every game, regardless who else is on that team.

Romo "IS" that Qb that wins or loses a game for a team...even with all those playmakers on his team, he still finds ways to lose a game.