Tom Brady extension

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

... YOU should be on the sidelines with the offense while your defense is on the field telling your receivers about weaknesses you spotted in the secondary on the last series. You should tell your O-line about patterns you've noticed in the defense and tells they give to indicate what package they're running OR how they're responding to audibles. In other words be IMMERSED in that game as the team leader. Schaub isn't that guy. He's a career back up and the past few years (IMHO) have borne that out.

I do agree with this. I don't necessarily need to see Schaub yelling at his team, chewing people out or whatever, that doesn't say "leader" to me. It says "spoiled brat"

But I'd love to see more of Schaub talking to his receivers on the sideline. Whether they be WRs, TEs, RBs, or FBs. I'd like to know that he & they are talking about what they are seeing & trying to get on the same page. Same way with his OL.

I didn't watch much of the Pro Bowl. But what little bit I did watch, I saw Peyton talking to at least two of the receivers. They might have been talking about Buick endorsements for all I know, but it looked like they were sharing information about what they were seeing & what they were thinking & Peyton helping that receiver be more successful on the field.

I want to see that from my QB on the regular.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

Thought Kaepernick was a rookie. If he wasn't ESPN and the powers that be sure as hell made it seem like their narrative was "Harbaugh gives rookie nod over veteran...and goes to superbowl."

Harbaugh drafted Kaepernick in his first season as HC of the 49ers... 2011. Most people didn't expect Alex Smith to finish the season as their starting QB. But they were on a roll, making it to the NFC Championship with very little resistance.

2012 was Harbaugh & Kaepernicks second season with the 49ers.

[deucetx]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this one.

While I'm no Schaub fan I have to disagree on this part. Yates did not beat the Bengals. The Texans did. All Yates did was manage the game. His stat line was 11 for 20 for 159 yards and 1 touchdown. That's it. He did little to nothing other than stay out of the way and don't make mistakes. The win was more about the defense (Got to love Watt's INT) and Foster averaging 6.4 per carry.

And Baltimore...ugh the memories. Yates was freaking horrible and the main reason we lost. The defense held Baltimore including Rice and we out gained them in yards. But Jacoby and Yates turned the ball over four times and Yates completed less than 50% of his passes for a whopping 184 yards. He was horrible that game.

I can say I rather they waited til the end of the year to re-sign Schaub at least when it comes to the length of the deal. But money wise it isn't that big of a hit and falls in place market value wise so don't find it that much of a big deal.

As for Brady...sorry I have to disagree saying it isn't unselfish. Again, not even a Brady fan but doesn't mean I can't respect him for what he did. His wife makes money? That's nice. Still in a sport where many players hold out or seek deals simply because they feel they are top of their position and deserve to be paid as such it's nice to see someone say they'll take a smaller salary so the team can make moves. Like him or hate him he is still argued to be one of the best to play his position all time and easily is worth double that contract and that flimsy 3 million signing. So I can give a man credit where do.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by deucetx

As for Brady...sorry I have to disagree saying it isn't unselfish. Again, not even a Brady fan but doesn't mean I can't respect him for what he did. His wife makes money? That's nice. Still in a sport where many players hold out or seek deals simply because they feel they are top of their position and deserve to be paid as such it's nice to see someone say they'll take a smaller salary so the team can make moves. Like him or hate him he is still argued to be one of the best to play his position all time and easily is worth double that contract and that flimsy 3 million signing. So I can give a man credit where do.

Kevin Walter took a pay cut. At the end of the day, for that year & the life of the contract, he's going to make less money than he would have with the original deal.

I don't think that is the case with Brady. I'll have to look at it. But adding years to bring the cap number down does not equal a pay cut. Now, he is signed through the 2017 season right? I bet he gets another "extension" before that. He'll make more money with this extension over the same time period as he would have without the extension. This is a "win-win" for both parties. The team gets more cap flexibility, Brady gets more money up front.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by TheIronDuke

I think even Matt Schaub makes more than him.

The numbers for Brady don't add up.
There's no way that his cap hit can be reduced without the Patriots giving him some more bonus money.

[Dutchrudder]

This deal isn't anywhere near as good as the sports pundits are making it out to be. He went from 2 years 30 million left on his deal to 5 years 70.6 million. 57 million is the new money, but because it's an extension and he had existing signing bonus left on his deal, it's still a pricey contract. The salaries are low, but any player will tell you they would rather have signing bonus money rather than future salary. Get that money ASAP so they can't avoid paying you. Anyways, his cap structure is about 3 million more than Schaub's is next year.

Regarding Brady's salary cap charges, the breakdown is as follows:

2013: $13.8 million

2014: $14.8 million

2015: $13 million

2016: $14 million

2017: $15 million

The new contract also provides Brady more financial protection in the event he suffers a career-ending injury in 2013, increasing the money guaranteed to him from $25 million to $57 million. Brady has already suffered one catastrophic injury in his career, at the beginning of the 2008 season.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...ed-deal-source

Honestly, the worst thing about this deal is the enormous signing bonus. 6 million a year for the next 5 years is a lot of money that can't be moved, and if he retires or can't play due to injury, he will either eat a roster spot or cost a lot in dead money. Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?

[dream_team]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

We're talking about the SAME T.J. Yates who beat Cincy more convincingly last year than Schaub did this year and the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.

Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on this one.

First of all... I'm not a believer in one guy wins or loses a game. It's a team game. But using your logic... yes, we're talking about the SAME TJ Yates that lost to the worst team in the league (Colts). The same TJ Yates that led the offense to 18.6 points a game, while Schaub averaged 27.3 a game. The same TJ Yates that led the offense to 322.8 yards/game, while Schaub averaged 396.2 yards/game.

And in regards to your Baltimore statement, I assume that's a joke. I won't even touch it.

I'm actually a fan of TJ, I like his potential... but as of right now, I'm extremely happy we're not going into next season with Yates as the starter.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by dream_team

First of all... I'm not a believer in one guy wins or loses a game. It's a team game. But using your logic... yes, we're talking about the SAME TJ Yates that lost to the worst team in the league (Colts).

Hold on a second. Let's re-visit that game (play-by-play link).

TJ had that game at 16-12 with 1:56 left on the game clock.

It was the DEFENSE that gave up a game winning drive in the two minute warning to Dan Orlovsky.

I'm not sure how you can blame TJ Yates for the failure of "one of the best defenses in the league".

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

the SAME guy who played a CONSIDERABLY better game against Baltimore last year than Schaub did THIS year? Yeah you're right he sucks.

Wow, loosen up the band on your dreads. Your Schaub hate is making you delusional.

46% 184 yds 0 TD's 3 INT's 28.8 QBR

Man that sure does look considerably better than:

66.7% 343 yds 2 TD's 1 INT 90.6 QBR

[76Texan]

From what I read, Brady got $30 in bonus.
It doesn't matter, since like Dutch said, all $57M are guaranteed.
If Brady gets injured, the Pats are screwed.

Dutch, I read that they rework the contract so that $30M is termed as "bonus".
He will get more cash sooner than otherwise, and is fully guaranteed of the total $57M if he's injured.

Basically, the Pats are able to "defer" $15M in cap hit toward the last 3 years of the contract, at the risk of losing big time financially if Brady gets injured, especially early on.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

From what I read, Brady got $30 in bonus.
It doesn't matter, since like Dutch said, all $57M are guaranteed.
If Brady gets injured, the Pats are screwed.

Dutch, I read that they rework the contract so that $30M is termed as "bonus".
He will get more cash sooner than otherwise, and is fully guaranteed of the total $57M if he's injured.

Basically, the Pats are able to "defer" $15M in cap hit toward the last 3 years of the contract, at the risk of losing big time financially if Brady gets injured, especially early on.

The 30m signing bonus is spread evenly among the 5 years according to everything I have read. Just look at the deadmoney from Overthecap:



http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Na...&Team=Patriots

His dead money will hit the cap regardless of what happens to him. If he retires or quits playing due to injury in 2015 he will cost 18m that year due to the guaranteed money acceleration. They could in theory keep him on the roster as inactive/IR and let him sit each of the last year or three in order to prevent that huge hit. In any case, his deal still ties up a lot of money and probably isn't the best for the Patriot's future, unless you think he will still play at a high level when he's 38/39/40.

[dream_team]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Hold on a second. Let's re-visit that game (play-by-play link).

TJ had that game at 16-12 with 1:56 left on the game clock.

It was the DEFENSE that gave up a game winning drive in the two minute warning to Dan Orlovsky.

I'm not sure how you can blame TJ Yates for the failure of "one of the best defenses in the league".

I agree 100%! Like I said in my post, teams win/lose a game, not one person. I was simply using Dread's own reasoning against him, using team performance to measure a QB's performance.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

This deal isn't anywhere near as good as the sports pundits are making it out to be. He went from 2 years 30 million left on his deal to 5 years 70.6 million. 57 million is the new money, but because it's an extension and he had existing signing bonus left on his deal, it's still a pricey contract. The salaries are low, but any player will tell you they would rather have signing bonus money rather than future salary. Get that money ASAP so they can't avoid paying you. Anyways, his cap structure is about 3 million more than Schaub's is next year.



http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/...ed-deal-source

Honestly, the worst thing about this deal is the enormous signing bonus. 6 million a year for the next 5 years is a lot of money that can't be moved, and if he retires or can't play due to injury, he will either eat a roster spot or cost a lot in dead money. Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?

Bolded. NO, and that is the point. They won't care when he is 40. This deal is made to allow them to be competitive for a few more prime years by surrounding him with more. That's it. Win now while we have one of the greatest QBs around. After that who cares.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Bolded. NO, and that is the point. They won't care when he is 40. This deal is made to allow them to be competitive for a few more prime years by surrounding him with more. That's it. Win now while we have one of the greatest QBs around. After that who cares.

I'm pretty sure they saved all of 2 million dollars of cap space in 2013/14 combined from this extension. If someone has something that says otherwise, let me know. An extension like that for 2 million in cap space is pretty dumb if you ask me.

[Dread-Head]

To those who are disagreeing with me on this one I say this. There are INTANGIBLES involved in playing the position of QB. Certain leadership qualities which a defensive coordinator won't be able to pick apart by studying GAME FILM. I'm of the opinion that Schaub despite being the starter heer for some time still THINKS like the backup he started his being.


A back up's job is:

a. to stop things from imploding on the field and do JUST enough to prevent a loss NOT to get a win.

b. be that guy who can come in at a moment's notice and get "the big win" when the starter is banged up.

c. Try to shine like a diamond for every play he gets because he KNOWS that as #2 he has to PROVE himself as he's in the other guy's shadow.

That was Matt Schaub when he was Dog Boy's back up in Atlanta and MAYBE his first year here. I'm obviousy not seeing the same guy YOU guys are seeing. The guy I'm seeing is:

a. throwing critical interceptions at the WORST possible time

b. Started a game on the opponent's 16 YARD LINE and was CONTENT to settle for a field goal.

c. stating on sports radio "You march down the field...you get in field goal range, you settle for the 3. You get ready for the next one."

Translation he's a "Good enough" QB. Good enough might get you an 11-1 season. It might get you lots of players in the pro bowl, but at the end of the day "good enough" get's you to the status of "One and done" and whipping boy to the A-hole pundits who treat your team like a glorified farm team for other NFL teams who want to look for prospects who can help THEM win a Lombardi.

[TexanSam]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

To those who are disagreeing with me on this one I say this. There are INTANGIBLES involved in playing the position of QB. Certain leadership qualities which a defensive coordinator won't be able to pick apart by studying GAME FILM. I'm of the opinion that Schaub despite being the starter heer for some time still THINKS like the backup he started his being.


A back up's job is:

a. to stop things from imploding on the field and do JUST enough to prevent a loss NOT to get a win.

b. be that guy who can come in at a moment's notice and get "the big win" when the starter is banged up.

c. Try to shine like a diamond for every play he gets because he KNOWS that as #2 he has to PROVE himself as he's in the other guy's shadow.

That was Matt Schaub when he was Dog Boy's back up in Atlanta and MAYBE his first year here. I'm obviousy not seeing the same guy YOU guys are seeing. The guy I'm seeing is:

a. throwing critical interceptions at the WORST possible time

b. Started a game on the opponent's 16 YARD LINE and was CONTENT to settle for a field goal.

c. stating on sports radio "You march down the field...you get in field goal range, you settle for the 3. You get ready for the next one."

Translation he's a "Good enough" QB. Good enough might get you an 11-1 season. It might get you lots of players in the pro bowl, but at the end of the day "good enough" get's you to the status of "One and done" and whipping boy to the A-hole pundits who treat your team like a glorified farm team for other NFL teams who want to look for prospects who can help THEM win a Lombardi.

I don't think many people would disagree with that. But in your previous posts you're advocating for TJ Yates ahead of Schaub. That's where the disagreement comes in. Schaub was a major disappointment last year, but TJ Yates didn't show any glimpse as a rookie that he could be better.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Does anyone really think Brady will be worth 15 million a year when he's 40?

If Schaub is still our QB I can guarantee we'll act like it.

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by TexanSam

I don't think many people would disagree with that. But in your previous posts you're advocating for TJ Yates ahead of Schaub. That's where the disagreement comes in. Schaub was a major disappointment last year, but TJ Yates didn't show any glimpse as a rookie that he could be better.

Put the AVERAGE Rookie QB who has ZERO trigger time in a playoff ROAD game against a VETERAN defense with one of the BEST safties in the League (Ed Reed) and I'll wager they wouldn't look half as good. Schaub is "Good" but lacks that fire that would make him GREAT. Does he deserve to be in the NFL? Yes? Should he remain a starter? Meh.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

The 30m signing bonus is spread evenly among the 5 years according to everything I have read. Just look at the deadmoney from Overthecap:



http://www.overthecap.com/cap.php?Na...&Team=Patriots

His dead money will hit the cap regardless of what happens to him. If he retires or quits playing due to injury in 2015 he will cost 18m that year due to the guaranteed money acceleration. They could in theory keep him on the roster as inactive/IR and let him sit each of the last year or three in order to prevent that huge hit. In any case, his deal still ties up a lot of money and probably isn't the best for the Patriot's future, unless you think he will still play at a high level when he's 38/39/40.

Jus want to add that the $30M bonus is recorded in the book as spreading out over 5 years for cap designation purpose only.

By looking at Dutch's numbers above and the numbers at spotrac, the $27M (the value of the 3 year extension is to paid out at 1, 2, 7, 8, and 9 in the form of base salary for each of the 5 years from 2013-15.

Brady pockets $30M sometimes shortly after he signs this extension.
Basically, he's receiving his pay for 2013-14 "right now" before OTA even starts.
He can put this money in the bank to draw interest or invest it in a mutual fund however he pleases.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by TexanSam

I don't think many people would disagree with that. But in your previous posts you're advocating for TJ Yates ahead of Schaub. That's where the disagreement comes in. Schaub was a major disappointment last year, but TJ Yates didn't show any glimpse as a rookie that he could be better.

You think Schaub showed any glimpse as a rookie?

Rookie TJ looked a heckuva' lot better than rookie Matt.

Rookie Schaub was 33 of 70 (47.1%), 1 TD, 4 INT, and a whopping 42 QB rating.

Rookie TJ was 82 of 134 (61.2%), 3 TD, 3 INT, and a respectable 81.7 QB rating...and he won a playoff game, which Schaub did not accomplish until his 9th year in the league.

Btw, both rookies played in 6 games (not including playoff games), so it's a valid comparison.

I'm not saying that TJ Yates is the second coming of Tom Brady. However, when you can make an argument comparing our starting QB to a 5th round rookie who did not have the benefit of an off-season, perhaps the reality is that our starter is pedestrian, at best.