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Old 02-25-2013   #121
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
Any WR, but a USC WR. They seem to be wayyyyyy more hype then production going back to the highly overrated Keyshawn Johnson.
Any prediction of a player based off the success of other players from that school that play the same position is not to be taken seriously.
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Old 02-26-2013   #122
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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Any prediction of a player based off the success of other players from that school that play the same position is not to be taken seriously.
And how many WR's have come out of USC w/ hype only to disappoint? I realize what you are saying, but its similar to offensive players coming out of the University of Texas. They simply haven't transitioned well to the NFL & very few have had success of late. It's a preference & opinion based on the university's past similar to Penn St being dubbed "LB U", doesn't mean that all their LB's will have success, but they've done well producing some quality ones. I realize that is not the say all end all for a position based on the school, but that was just a opinion & not a rule or standard that I expected be used to set the draft board. Take a breather, everything is not that serious.
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Old 02-26-2013   #123
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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...but its similar to offensive players coming out of the University of Texas.
I thought they did pretty good with runningbacks.
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Old 02-26-2013   #124
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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I thought they did pretty good with runningbacks.
Not the big names such as Benson & Williams. The Bears gave up on Benson & Williams couldnt get his head straight after NO's gave up a ton for him. They did ok later in their careers, but nothing near what many envisioned them doing. Charles is doing well & Holmes success was unexpected to most when he came out considering Williams was pushing him in college. Throw in Colt, VY, Roy Williams coupled w/ Benson's & Williams limited success & it doesn't equate to much success for the offensive side of the ball.
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Old 02-26-2013   #125
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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And how many WR's have come out of USC w/ hype only to disappoint? I realize what you are saying, but its similar to offensive players coming out of the University of Texas. They simply haven't transitioned well to the NFL & very few have had success of late. It's a preference & opinion based on the university's past similar to Penn St being dubbed "LB U", doesn't mean that all their LB's will have success, but they've done well producing some quality ones. I realize that is not the say all end all for a position based on the school, but that was just a opinion & not a rule or standard that I expected be used to set the draft board. Take a breather, everything is not that serious.
You sounded pretty serious to me, as it is the second time I have seen you post it on the board, I was just pointing out that it is not taken seriously.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...19&postcount=8
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Old 02-26-2013   #126
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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You sounded pretty serious to me, as it is the second time I have seen you post it on the board, I was just pointing out that it is not taken seriously.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...19&postcount=8
And I stand by what I say, so please read it again along w/ my explanation. It's a "personal preference" & "opinion", but one based on the past performances of former USC WR's having been more hype then production. Some schools are known for producing certain types of players at certain positions. That's why some covet Bama CB's because of Saban's reputation for developing them. Very similar to the Penn St reference I mentioned earlier concerning LB's. Hardly a difficult concept to understand. USC has had multiple highly touted WR's come out, but have yet to produce one that has done anything of significance. So therefore their track record for developing the position is really not that impressive.

If you can't understand that simple explanation, then let's just agree to disagree because I've tried explaining it more then once now & yet you can't seem to grasp that some schools develop certain positions better then others. Doesn't mean that a player can't eventually develop, but USC WR's have had issues over the years & I do have my doubts about them. Once again, its my "opinion" but one based on history. Similar to how some question spread offense QB's being able to adapt & produce in pro offenses. It's an opinion & preference. Not that difficult.

Mine nor your opinions are being used to draft future Texans SO that is ultimately why it is NOT that serious, not that I didn't mean what I said or believe it....for a bit more clarification. Chill out, have a nice day, & try not to kick your dog. Geez...
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Old 02-26-2013   #127
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

It's like saying Baylor QBs sucked, don't draft RG III.
That's crazy!

Do you know that Baylor had had 8 QBs in the pros before Griffin; two were drafted high in the first, one in the second, and one in the third. They combined to start ten games in the pros.

Is that a good reason for not drafting Robert Griffin III?
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Old 02-26-2013   #128
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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Originally Posted by tru80texan View Post
And I stand by what I say, so please read it again along w/ my explanation. It's a "personal preference" & "opinion", but one based on the past performances of former USC WR's having been more hype then production. Some schools are known for producing certain types of players at certain positions. That's why some covet Bama CB's because of Saban's reputation for developing them. Very similar to the Penn St reference I mentioned earlier concerning LB's. Hardly a difficult concept to understand. USC has had multiple highly touted WR's come out, but have yet to produce one that has done anything of significance. So therefore their track record for developing the position is really not that impressive.

If you can't understand that simple explanation, then let's just agree to disagree because I've tried explaining it more then once now & yet you can't seem to grasp that some schools develop certain positions better then others. Doesn't mean that a player can't eventually develop, but USC WR's have had issues over the years & I do have my doubts about them. Once again, its my "opinion" but one based on history. Similar to how some question spread offense QB's being able to adapt & produce in pro offenses. It's an opinion & preference. Not that difficult.

Mine nor your opinions are being used to draft future Texans SO that is ultimately why it is NOT that serious, not that I didn't mean what I said or believe it....for a bit more clarification. Chill out, have a nice day, & try not to kick your dog. Geez...
It's a different coaching staff, but ok. We will definitely agree to disagree.
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Old 02-26-2013   #129
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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Steelb,

Do you think Swope will be there in the 3rd after surprising folks at the combine? I'm not so sure.
With the depth in this WR class, Swope is more of a slot guy and the fact that he had a poor Sr bowl I think it's a good possibilty he would be there in the 3rd. But it only take 1 team to like you to go in the 1st rd for example and a team like the Rams could fall in love with Swope and pick him before the Texans pick.

If the Texans pick a WR in the 1st and Swope is there in the 3rd would you pick him? I would. Swope is a player and tested much better than I anticipated.
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Old 02-26-2013   #130
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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It's a different coaching staff, but ok. We will definitely agree to disagree.
Was not Lane Kiffen a member of the USC coaching staff that produced those WR's? In fact, if I recall he was even the position coach for WR at one time & then eventually progressed to the OC & now the HC. He has been a key member of USC in some capacity excluding 2007-2009. It is a different staff w/ one key member being the same, which may lead some to believe the philosophy on how to develop certain positions may still be very similar to those that existed in 2001 at USC considering Kiffen once led the position & now leads the whole program. That being said...ok, we can agree to disagree.
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Old 02-26-2013   #131
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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It's like saying Baylor QBs sucked, don't draft RG III.
That's crazy!

Do you know that Baylor had had 8 QBs in the pros before Griffin; two were drafted high in the first, one in the second, and one in the third. They combined to start ten games in the pros.

Is that a good reason for not drafting Robert Griffin III?
All 8 of those Baylor QB's had the same coaching staff when they entered the NFL?!?! WOW! I don't recall that being the case!! 8 QB's in a league that was started in 1920, what a track record of success!

You didn't quite get the point & your extreme was far from an accurate portrayal of what was being discussed. Thanks anyways.
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Old 02-26-2013   #132
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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All 8 of those Baylor QB's had the same coaching staff when they entered the NFL?!?! WOW! I don't recall that being the case!! 8 QB's in a league that was started in 1920, what a track record of success!

You didn't quite get the point & your extreme was far from an accurate portrayal of what was being discussed. Thanks anyways.
I understand what you're saying, but this would only be one of the many factors to take into consideration when drafting a player. I never thought Dwayne Jarrett was that good to be honest and Steve Smith had some nice years before he had major knee surgery. Marquise Lee and Robert Woods are both going to be good pro receivers in my opinion.
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Old 02-26-2013   #133
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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I understand what you're saying, but this would only be one of the many factors to take into consideration when drafting a player. I never thought Dwayne Jarrett was that good to be honest and Steve Smith had some nice years before he had major knee surgery. Marquise Lee and Robert Woods are both going to be good pro receivers in my opinion.
I doubt they will be good, Dwayne Jarrett sucked.
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Old 02-26-2013   #134
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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I understand what you're saying, but this would only be one of the many factors to take into consideration when drafting a player. I never thought Dwayne Jarrett was that good to be honest and Steve Smith had some nice years before he had major knee surgery. Marquise Lee and Robert Woods are both going to be good pro receivers in my opinion.
I am speaking English...thank you! LOL! True, it is one factor & as I said earlier its just my opinion & personal preference concerning USC WR's. Having an opinion is frowned upon by some on here & a hard concept to understand. Steve Smith had a decent couple of years, but he hasn't reclaimed that magic since leaving the Giants. Could be a combo of injury & system. Who knows. Woods & Lee may be decent some day...only time will tell. There's more to Woods that I don't care for such as his very slender build & allowing the ball to get body quite often, but that's beside the point because some can't get past my opinion of the coach & school. LOL! What can you do....
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Old 02-26-2013   #135
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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I am speaking English...thank you! LOL! True, it is one factor & as I said earlier its just my opinion & personal preference concerning USC WR's. Having an opinion is frowned upon by some on here & a hard concept to understand. Steve Smith had a decent couple of years, but he hasn't reclaimed that magic since leaving the Giants. Could be a combo of injury & system. Who knows. Woods & Lee may be decent some day...only time will tell. There's more to Woods that I don't care for such as his very slender build & allowing the ball to get body quite often, but that's beside the point because some can't get past my opinion of the coach & school. LOL! What can you do....
It is not frowned upon, that you worry about a collegiate program not being good at developing receivers.

What is frowned upon is the fact that you look at it without any regard to each individual case; ie. you came to a conclusion without evaluating the data in depth.

While it is true that it is your personal preference, it is not true that it's a correct method to evaluate future prospects.

Just because Kolb was developed by Art Briles running a "gimmick" offense
and failed at the NFL level doesn't mean that RG III should get a red flag during the draft process.

Just because Kolb accumulated stats in the CUSA doesn't mean that Briles' system wouldn't work in the Big 12.

Just because Keenum ran a similar offense that was continued by Sumlin in the CUSA doesn't mean that the Aggies would have a hard time competing in the SEC.

OK, never mind, I ramble off the topic.
Don't include the second part into this discussion.
I just want to leave it there.
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Old 02-26-2013   #136
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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It is not frowned upon, that you worry about a collegiate program not being good at developing receivers.

What is frowned upon is the fact that you look at it without any regard to each individual case; ie. you came to a conclusion without evaluating the data in depth.

While it is true that it is your personal preference, it is not true that it's a correct method to evaluate future prospects.

Just because Kolb was developed by Art Briles running a "gimmick" offense
and failed at the NFL level doesn't mean that RG III should get a red flag during the draft process.

Just because Kolb accumulated stats in the CUSA doesn't mean that Briles' system wouldn't work in the Big 12.

Just because Keenum ran a similar offense that was continued by Sumlin in the CUSA doesn't mean that the Aggies would have a hard time competing in the SEC.

OK, never mind, I ramble off the topic.
Don't include the second part into this discussion.
I just want to leave it there.
Really...that's why I included in the post that you quoted OTHER reasons why I'm not fond of Woods as a player. So yes, other factors have been considered. Your rebuttal doesn't hold water considering I did state those other factors outside of USC being unable to develop a quality WR w/ Kiffen as a member of the staff in some capacity.

Once again, its my opinion that I don't think highly of WR's coming out of USC because others have faultered in the past despite seeming to have all the physical tools & being touted as such. Whether you frown upon it or not in the end doesn't mean much because it is my opinion. It's not a tough concept to grasp if you think about it. Just think of it as how you choose not to find any fault w/ any aspect of the Texans...its your flawed opinion but in the end it doesnt matter how wrong it is because it is yours & you are entitled to it. Pretty simple if you ask me. Moving on now.
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Old 02-26-2013   #137
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

I didn't mean for this to hijack the thread, I was simply poking for fun.

Anybody think any of the receivers dropped alot because of their combine performance?
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Old 02-26-2013   #138
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

What are those other factors you talked about except for Kiffin?

Are you talking about hype?
Hype is what you take upon yourself.
Personally, I haven't hyped up any USC receiver ever.


Anyway, I agree to move on.
The only other thing I want to say is that I never take anything personal either.

I simply like to hear an opinion based on keen observation over one based on small glimpses and personal preferences.
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Old 02-26-2013   #139
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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Anybody think any of the receivers dropped alot because of their combine performance?
No, but those USC receivers are dropping like rocks.
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Old 02-26-2013   #140
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Default Re: WRs who might be in the 2013 Draft

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I didn't mean for this to hijack the thread, I was simply poking for fun.

Anybody think any of the receivers dropped alot because of their combine performance?
I don't know how much is a lot, but Hamilton and Woods didn't show as well as I thought they would in the 40s, SS, 3-cone, long jump and vertical.
(I think Hamilton didn't do the 3-cone.)

Hopkins didn't show as well as I'd like to see either.
I wonder if he's still getting used to the addl' weight.

These guys need to show better at their pro days in those lacking areas.
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