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Old 02-18-2013   #21
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This is a similar mentality that netted Posey in 3rd instead of Randell in the 2nd. I just don't think the Texans can risk being cute & bypass or lose a shot @ clearly superior WR prospects given state of franchise needs.
I think Williams could be a huge upgrade at NT and will enormously help this D. By the time the combine finishes, I think he will grade out as a first rounder. If he is available, I say take him. There are not a lot of really good NT prospects with size and athleticism. One thing you don't want to do is grab a player of need ahead of BPA. In 2004 the Texans passed on Vince Wilfork because they felt they had a big need at CB. They selected Dunta Robinson.

There are 12 really good WR options(pre combine).

Allen, Williams, Austin, Hopkins, Hunter, Patterson, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton. Let's say that Allen for sure goes before #27 and Patterson likely as well. That leaves 10 options. If Brandon Williams is taken at 27, the Texans can then use a non compensatory pick to move up from end of the second to middle of the second (say around 12-16). At that point, Hopkins and Williams are also probably gone. However, they should be able to get at least 1 option out of Hunter, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton.

A combo of Brandon Williams plus one of the other WRs may be a better combo than WR in the first and another position in the second.
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Old 02-18-2013   #22
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I think Williams could be a huge upgrade at NT and will enormously help this D. By the time the combine finishes, I think he will grade out as a first rounder. If he is available, I say take him. There are not a lot of really good NT prospects with size and athleticism. One thing you don't want to do is grab a player of need ahead of BPA. In 2004 the Texans passed on Vince Wilfork because they felt they had a big need at CB. They selected Dunta Robinson.

There are 12 really good WR options(pre combine).

Allen, Williams, Austin, Hopkins, Hunter, Patterson, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton. Let's say that Allen for sure goes before #27 and Patterson likely as well. That leaves 10 options. If Brandon Williams is taken at 27, the Texans can then use a non compensatory pick to move up from end of the second to middle of the second (say around 12-16). At that point, Hopkins and Williams are also probably gone. However, they should be able to get at least 1 option out of Hunter, Rogers, Hamilton, Woods, Wheaton, Davis, and Patton.

A combo of Brandon Williams plus one of the other WRs may be a better combo than WR in the first and another position in the second.
Very valid points. I can track along with your very astute reasoning, however please consider this- Gary Kubiak & Matt Schaubs foreheads are in Rick Smith cross-hairs. As much as I agree with you, I expect the front office to give Mattie "not ice" one more shot as well QB guru Kubiak every opportunity to succeed.

Best way to save their collective a$$ is steller WR play opposite Andre Johnson. Owner wants it. FO wants it. Fans want it. If they pass on player like Patton it will be their destiny to fail.
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Old 02-18-2013   #23
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Very valid points. I can track along with your very astute reasoning, however please consider this- Gary Kubiak & Matt Schaubs foreheads are in Rick Smith cross-hairs. As much as I agree with you, I expect the front office to give Mattie "not ice" one more shot as well QB guru Kubiak every opportunity to succeed.

Best way to save their collective a$$ is steller WR play opposite Andre Johnson. Owner wants it. FO wants it. Fans want it. If they pass on player like Patton it will be their destiny to fail.
As much as people around here want or think that Kubes is on the "hot seat" or in the "cross hairs" I don't think he is. After a 12-4 season and back to back playoff appearances, not to mention that McNair like Kubes, I don't think he's going anywhere yet. And, even if he has a bad season this year, say 6-10, I still don't think Smith/McNair fires him. Now Schaub, that's another story.... JMO!
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Old 02-18-2013   #24
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As much as people around here want or think that Kubes is on the "hot seat" or in the "cross hairs" I don't think he is. After a 12-4 season and back to back playoff appearances, not to mention that McNair like Kubes, I don't think he's going anywhere yet. And, even if he has a bad season this year, say 6-10, I still don't think Smith/McNair fires him. Now Schaub, that's another story.... JMO!
Strongly disagree. Kubiak & Schaub are joined at the hip. Thankfully Gary turned down a long term deal, instead opting for 3 year extension. One year down. If they go 6-10 as suggested, search is on. Lame duck HC. Big expiring contracts, give me some hope.
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Old 02-19-2013   #25
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Very valid points. I can track along with your very astute reasoning, however please consider this- Gary Kubiak & Matt Schaubs foreheads are in Rick Smith cross-hairs. As much as I agree with you, I expect the front office to give Mattie "not ice" one more shot as well QB guru Kubiak every opportunity to succeed.

Best way to save their collective a$$ is steller WR play opposite Andre Johnson. Owner wants it. FO wants it. Fans want it. If they pass on player like Patton it will be their destiny to fail.
I can definitely see your reasoning. At the end of the day, I would not be surprised if they went WR. However, if I was in the room with them, I would argue strongly for Williams. I would point to Wade Phillips and say that until Wade got here, the team stunk. The magical run of 2011 wasn't because of the offense, it was the result of the Defense playing lights out. The 2012 run to 11-1 wasn't the product of an overwhelming offense, it was the result of a swarming and smothering defense. The offense scored because the defense gave them short fields to work with. When the Defense lost too many parts, the offense was unable to pick up the slack because it is an average(at best) offense. When the team went to Chicago, the Defense won the game. When the Texans played the Ravens, the Defense shut out the opposing offense and gave the offense a chance.

The defense is much closer to elite than the offense. A player of Williams caliber, a healthy Cushing, and a healthy Joseph have the potential to make this defense downright scary. As much as Gary, Rick, the rest of the front office, Mr. McNair, and perhaps even some fans may want this to be an offensive team, its clearly a defensive one. Wade has made two defensive first round pick for Htown(Watt and Mercilus and throw in Reed as a high second) and they have been great. Watt looked phenomenal and Mercilus looked better than Barwin in less than a third of the snaps. Simply put, I trust Wade who has done an excellent job selecting talent.

Yes, a very good WR is needed (and I advocate that in the second via tradeup.) My concern is that Kubes will try to be smarter than everyone else and take a Devier Posey when Mohamed Sanu or Nick Toon was available.
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Old 02-19-2013   #26
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Strongly disagree. Kubiak & Schaub are joined at the hip. Thankfully Gary turned down a long term deal, instead opting for 3 year extension. One year down. If they go 6-10 as suggested, search is on. Lame duck HC. Big expiring contracts, give me some hope.
That is absolutely not true .... He wont come out and say it but they can and will should the need arise get away from Schaub's contract after the coming season without too much damage to the cap in the form ofdead money.
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Old 02-19-2013   #27
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That is absolutely not true .... He wont come out and say it but they can and will should the need arise get away from Schaub's contract after the coming season without too much damage to the cap in the form ofdead money.
was the contract for Schaub Gary's idea or someone else's? I agree with Beerlover that the two are attached. Now Gary could be forced to let Matt go as he was forced to allow coaches to depart and to Wade's hiring.
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Old 02-19-2013   #28
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was the contract for Schaub Gary's idea or someone else's? I agree with Beerlover that the two are attached. Now Gary could be forced to let Matt go as he was forced to allow coaches to depart and to Wade's hiring.
That was a group decision between McNair , Smith and Kubiak.

Gary isnt joined at the hip with any player .... If they can upgrade they will , if a player isnt worth his contract or cap hit he'll be gone or didnt this past season show us anything with Ryans and Winston cut.

The team did say they would consider drafting a QB should they have the opportunity to draft one they like. That in itself should tell you they will move on from Schaub if need be.


As for Schaub - Who was available prior to his extention that is a clear upgrade ? Who is available right now thats a clear upgrade ?!

That contract is pretty damn team friendly by QB standards and when he signed that deal , they were putting up 30 a game ... Sure hindsight is 20/20 but again , who are you going to replace him with thats not going to set the team back a year or two when they are contenders for a superbowl.
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Old 02-19-2013   #29
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That was a group decision between McNair , Smith and Kubiak.

Gary isnt joined at the hip with any player .... If they can upgrade they will , if a player isnt worth his contract or cap hit he'll be gone or didnt this past season show us anything with Ryans and Winston cut.

The team did say they would consider drafting a QB should they have the opportunity to draft one they like. That in itself should tell you they will move on from Schaub if need be.


As for Schaub - Who was available prior to his extention that is a clear upgrade ? Who is available right now thats a clear upgrade ?!

That contract is pretty damn team friendly by QB standards and when he signed that deal , they were putting up 30 a game ... Sure hindsight is 20/20 but again , who are you going to replace him with thats not going to set the team back a year or two when they are contenders for a superbowl.
I am very ok with the contract but do not know how you can determine who decided on the contract. Does Studdard ring a bell? Any moves after Wade was hired imo cannot be said to have been approved by Kubiak. Just my opinion.
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Old 02-19-2013   #30
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I am very ok with the contract but do not know how you can determine who decided on the contract. Does Studdard ring a bell? Any moves after Wade was hired imo cannot be said to have been approved by Kubiak. Just my opinion.
Did Wade all the sudden become the HC ??


Every team has their Studdard , a guy who has all the tools but just doesnt get there.


As for who made that decision , they flat out told us thru a press conference who made the decision. We'll go deeper into that once Gary is no longer with the team.
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Old 02-19-2013   #31
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Every team has their Studdard , a guy who has all the tools but just doesnt get there.
What tools did Stuudard have, other than a beer belly? The guy overachieved making a NFL roster.

I agree that re-upping Schaub had to be a group decision between the Texans holy trinity. Where I disagree is the timing of the signing. There was no reason not to wait until the offseason. They could have tagged Schaub. They could have let him test the free agent market. He wasn't getting a better deal than what the Texans gave him. Way premature.

With 11 draft picks, the Texans should bring in a rookie QB at some point. Kubiak's strength is developing QBs (supposedly). Now is the time to test that theory.
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Old 02-19-2013   #32
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What tools did Stuudard have, other than a beer belly? The guy overachieved making a NFL roster.

I agree that re-upping Schaub had to be a group decision between the Texans holy trinity. Where I disagree is the timing of the signing. There was no reason not to wait until the offseason. They could have tagged Schaub. They could have let him test the free agent market. He wasn't getting a better deal than what the Texans gave him. Way premature.

With 11 draft picks, the Texans should bring in a rookie QB at some point. Kubiak's strength is developing QBs (supposedly). Now is the time to test that theory.
BoB seems to have developed a bad case of premature QB signability.
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Old 02-19-2013   #33
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Strongly disagree. Kubiak & Schaub are joined at the hip. Thankfully Gary turned down a long term deal, instead opting for 3 year extension. One year down. If they go 6-10 as suggested, search is on. Lame duck HC. Big expiring contracts, give me some hope.
Hope! Hope for what? Starting all over again with another 3 to 5 year building plan? No, I don't see that happening! The only ones Gary is tied to the hip with are Smith and McNair. McNair wants a stable organization, like the Steelers, who compete for Super Bowls most years. I don't think he's going to fire the guy that's helped build them into a playoff team that could be on the brink of going to the Super Bowl. JMO!
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Old 02-20-2013   #34
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I am very ok with the contract but do not know how you can determine who decided on the contract. Does Studdard ring a bell? Any moves after Wade was hired imo cannot be said to have been approved by Kubiak. Just my opinion.
So now all personnel decisions fall on Wade? Ridiculous post.

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With 11 draft picks, the Texans should bring in a rookie QB at some point. Kubiak's strength is developing QBs (supposedly). Now is the time to test that theory.
I don't mind them spending a 1st round pick or trading several picks to move up within the draft but they should not do it out of desperation but because they feel the guy will be a legitimate upgrade. Getting another 5th or 6th round rookie is just a wasted pick IMO. I'd rather get a kicker.
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Old 02-20-2013   #35
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Dopp, IMO, Posey was the right pick.
Sanu doesn't have the speed; he's only averaging 9.6 ypc while Posey averaged nearly 15 yard per.
While I think Toon was a good receiver in college, his injury history didn't thrill me; sure enough, he was placed on IR the whole year.

Posey has decent size and very good speed.
His hands and route running are also better when I studied them in college.
Last year, I concentrated mostly on the QBs and receivers (same as this year.)
IMHO, Posey is the better overall player of those three.
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Old 02-20-2013   #36
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I agree that re-upping Schaub had to be a group decision between the Texans holy trinity. Where I disagree is the timing of the signing. There was no reason not to wait until the offseason. They could have tagged Schaub. They could have let him test the free agent market. He wasn't getting a better deal than what the Texans gave him. Way premature.
I dont disagree with you there .... Was just pointing out that at the time there was no clear upgrade available and Schaub had shown himself to be capable ..... they were putting up 30+ points a game with him under center.


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I don't mind them spending a 1st round pick or trading several picks to move up within the draft but they should not do it out of desperation but because they feel the guy will be a legitimate upgrade. Getting another 5th or 6th round rookie is just a wasted pick IMO. I'd rather get a kicker.
This is where Im at too .... no sense in taking another TJ Yates , he's already on the roster.

If you are going to draft a QB , it needs to be a guy who you think has the talent and mental makeup to actually replace Schaub by 2014 which is when they can get out from under the contract.

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Dopp, IMO, Posey was the right pick.
Sanu doesn't have the speed; he's only averaging 9.6 ypc while Posey averaged nearly 15 yard per.
While I think Toon was a good receiver in college, his injury history didn't thrill me; sure enough, he was placed on IR the whole year.

Posey has decent size and very good speed.
His hands and route running are also better when I studied them in college.
Last year, I concentrated mostly on the QBs and receivers (same as this year.)
IMHO, Posey is the better overall player of those three.
I tried to tell you guy's that last year .... but Im just crazy.
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Old 02-20-2013   #37
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So now all personnel decisions fall on Wade? Ridiculous post.



I don't mind them spending a 1st round pick or trading several picks to move up within the draft but they should not do it out of desperation but because they feel the guy will be a legitimate upgrade. Getting another 5th or 6th round rookie is just a wasted pick IMO. I'd rather get a kicker.
Where did I say Phillips made all personnel decisions? There was a lot of talk on this MB that McNair told Kubiak he was to hire Phillips and that was final. It should not be hard for most to say it is possible if not probable that McNair has taken a much larger role in all moves since that day. Also I noted that Gary was forced to get rid of some coaches. Wade had nothing to do with that nor did I say he did. All I am saying is McNair hired Phillips and Gary may not be making the moves.

BTW, Texans did draft a kicker.
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Old 02-20-2013   #38
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 5.0: PreCombine Double Mock!

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Did Wade all the sudden become the HC ??


Every team has their Studdard , a guy who has all the tools but just doesnt get there.


As for who made that decision , they flat out told us thru a press conference who made the decision. We'll go deeper into that once Gary is no longer with the team.
You said Gary was not joined to the hip with any player. I offered an example of Studdard who would not have made Texans without his family's friendship with head coach. This was discussed at length during time Studdard played. Keo is a better example of whom you are describing as having some tools but just doesn't get there and yes most teams have 1-2 of those. After Studdard made roster the injuries to players ahead of him was his biggest strength. At best, he was Briesel lite.
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Old 02-20-2013   #39
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 5.0: PreCombine Double Mock!

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You said Gary was not joined to the hip with any player. I offered an example of Studdard who would not have made Texans without his family's friendship with head coach. This was discussed at length during time Studdard played. Keo is a better example of whom you are describing as having some tools but just doesn't get there and yes most teams have 1-2 of those. After Studdard made roster the injuries to players ahead of him was his biggest strength. At best, he was Briesel lite.
Who discussed it ? Us ?? The media ?! .... No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. We can talk about it all day long but the bottom line is all we can do is make assumptions .... unless of course you have inside knowledge of the team.
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Old 02-20-2013   #40
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Default Re: Doppelmock Version 5.0: PreCombine Double Mock!

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
You said Gary was not joined to the hip with any player. I offered an example of Studdard who would not have made Texans without his family's friendship with head coach. This was discussed at length during time Studdard played. Keo is a better example of whom you are describing as having some tools but just doesn't get there and yes most teams have 1-2 of those. After Studdard made roster the injuries to players ahead of him was his biggest strength. At best, he was Briesel lite.
That's probably the only way Studdard would ever be described as "lite."

I still believe though, and agree with Corrosion, that Kubes is not tied to the hip of any player. He is tied with Smith and McNair.
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