Texans #2 WR position

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

Honestly, the Texans have not thrown enough bodies at the posistion. Wrs can be found throughout the draft, but you probably should be drafting one every year at some point. We have overdrafted CBs during smith's time here and really only have Brice McCain and Kareeen jackson to really show for it.

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

Honestly, the Texans have not thrown enough bodies at the posistion. Wrs can be found throughout the draft, but you probably should be drafting one every year at some point. We have overdrafted CBs during smith's time here and really only have Brice McCain and Kareeen jackson to really show for it.

Don't we have to give him credit for stumbling into Glover Quinn?

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

Don't we have to give him credit for stumbling into Glover Quinn?

yes we do and I just forgot about him since he is no longer a CB. Also, i think Rick smith has done a good, not great job overall simply because we have managed to go from awful to a legitimate playoff team. Probably happened too slow and he has plenty of ways to improve though.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by Texn4life

I really like the Barden option. The kid for some reason just hasn't been given much of a chance in New York, but his size is something that can't can't be coached or taught and whenever I see him out on the field it seems like he produces. Had a very nice game against Carolina this year.

EDIT: probably shouldn't say he has produced especially in the regular season, but he has looked good in preseason and in his limited play in the regular season. I believe he's been nicked up some but he has a lot of upside.

I like Barden as well. The kid is big & fast & has shown some flashes in very limited action. He shouldn't be expensive & could be a high reward investment IMO. Outside of him the others that possibly fall into the same area as him are Gibson, Jerome Simpson, Devery Henderson, Cribbs,& Danario Alexander. The latter I believe is a restricted FA. Barden seems to have the most potential of that group IMO.

The draft has some potential, but I believe last years yielded more. I think the boat was missed on that one & once again Kubiak & the FO are a day late & a dollar short on properly addressing a need. Hopefully some wr's separate themselves from the pack at the combine, but then we have to hope of those that do that one of them will actually fall to the Texans in the draft. Wishful thinking to obtain someone who can step in on day 1 & produce, but we can hope.

The WR position is in need of an upgrade & I believe that only truly happens if Walter is completely out of the way. Kubiak refuses to give others a true opportunity w/ Walter being around as his security blanket. The WR group would be thin if Walter is let go, but I think it was worse off last season & they not only chose to release Jacoby, but cut Walter's pay as well. That says a lot & I expect the same to happen this offseason as Walter simply is not a #2 wr worth the money he is projected to make. It's time to cut ties w/ him.

Sign a FA w/ potential, such as Barden, that won't break the bank & draft a wr that has actually produced something worth noting in Division 1, not Lane College, as well as has played during his whole career at college as opposed to the players who have missed whole seasons for 1 reason or another. All the above would be a great start that actually might prove to some that kubiak & his FO are finally serious about addressing the wr appropriately. Which is not something that has been done in the past despite their multiple failed attempts IMO.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

If you look at those facts in a vacuum, yeah, it's pretty sad.

However, when you factor in the dismal state our defense was in compared to the offensive production we were getting during that time, then it's understandable.

We haven't been looking as hard for a WR as we've been looking for a pass rusher, a cover corner, or competent inside pressure.

It's still sad, but understandable.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

My prediction of what will happen with the number 2 WR

Kevin Walter will be outright cut- Actual cap savings
the Texans will sign a mid or lower level Wr as a veteran WR2- 9(Ramess Barden, Brandon gibson since they are at least young)
Draft another rookie Wr in rounds 2-4.

My only hope for diferent is that fact that the owner has already said on several occassions that WR2 is a priority.

I dont know that Walter will be cut .... His cap hit is ~$4.5m but the actual savings against the cap is just under $2m.

The question is are you going to get a better player for that $2m , if not he's not going anywhere.


Got a list of players you feel are an upgrade for $2m or less ??

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

Also, i think Rick smith has done a good, not great job overall simply because we have managed to go from awful to a legitimate playoff team. Probably happened too slow and he has plenty of ways to improve though.

It took a great coach like Bill Parcels 4 years to turn a lost cause around. We've got the blind leading the blind in Smith & Kubiak & they did it in 6.

That's about right for the talent we've got. Talent in the F.O. that is.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger

It's pretty discouraging to look back at our WR Draft history, especially during our present regimen. Andre was the #3 overall pick, and Jabar Gaffney was a 2nd rounder..........10 and 11 years ago. After that, Posey has been our top drafted receiver at #68 overall. Jacoby went #73 overall in 2007. After 12 years, you might think that the Texans could have successfully played the role of the blind squirrel and at least found one or two "nuts" that weren't their own.

To be fair Jacoby Jones looked pretty darn good for the Ravens .... but two things were different , he wasnt asked to understand a complex route tree there , just run fast and try to catch the ball ..... and he had a big armed QB who could throw him open allowing him to use his speed.


Posey improved all season and was pushing Walter down the depth chart ... that injury really sucks because I was expecting him to contribute significantly next season. This sets the team back and they have to address the position either in FA or a premium draft pick.

[dream_team]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

Logic dictates that since Matt cant get the ball to the players we have, having better players would not improve the team. Matt's issue isn't dropped balls, it's his inaccuracy, weak arm, and bad decisions.

Schaub ranked 8th in completions, 6th in completion percentage, 10th in yards per attempt. AJ ranked 4th in receptions. Logic says our QB gets the ball to the receivers just fine.

[Malloy]

How, stat-wise is schaub looking when it comes to spreading the ball around? I have a feeling that despite the respectable general qb-stats, the possible one-dimentioness is more the issue than arm strength or reciever quality. Ofcourse i could be all wrong

[deucetx]

Originally Posted by dream_team

Schaub ranked 8th in completions, 6th in completion percentage, 10th in yards per attempt. AJ ranked 4th in receptions. Logic says our QB gets the ball to the receivers just fine.

Pretty sure they mean down the field. Schaub threw it only 55 times 20+ times. For comparison sake that is lower than all the playoff quarterbacks except for Ponder, RG3 and Kaeperncik (though Kap threw it 49 times in a heck of a lot less starts so easily would have been more)

Originally Posted by Malloy

How, stat-wise is schaub looking when it comes to spreading the ball around? I have a feeling that despite the respectable general qb-stats, the possible one-dimentioness is more the issue than arm strength or reciever quality. Ofcourse i could be all wrong

Regular Season target%

Andre Johnson: 29.6%
Owen Daniels: 18.6
Kevin Walter: 12.6
Arian Foster: 10.5
James Casey: 8.1
Garrett Graham: 6.9
Keshawn Martin: 4.9
Devier Posey: 2.5
Lestar Jean: 2.2

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

I dont know that Walter will be cut .... His cap hit is ~$4.5m but the actual savings against the cap is just under $2m.

The question is are you going to get a better player for that $2m , if not he's not going anywhere.


Got a list of players you feel are an upgrade for $2m or less ??

Click on the any free agent WR list. Pretty much any WR in league can catch 40 balls for 500 yards if the majority of snap at WR2

[badboy]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

Why are people so afraid of a rookie wr? I mean torrey smith has been making big plays since he's come into the league. He may only catch 50 balls or so, but they eat up a lot of real estate. There will be a wr in the first staring them in the face they should take. They can help themselves by also upgrading the te position since schaub like to throw to that guy a lot. Daniels kills the offense as much as not having a #2 cuz he can't get verticle against lbs any,ore.

My thoughts are it is a hard position to learn especially ours. Count how many rookies receivers are selected in say top three rounds. How many actually have Torrey SMith stats? It is risky.

[HOU-TEX]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

Just throwing this out there but how do we know, Keyshawn Martin, Lestar Jean and the like, aren't that guy yet?

I'm not saying, by any stretch that those guys are the answer but I would rather focus the draft in other areas. Primarily the Texans defensive interior.

Agreed! Of course, I'll always lean towards defense

A lot depends on our UFAs. OLB if Barwin leaves? DB if Quin and/or McCain leave? NT if Cody leaves? ILB for sure

What else do we need on offense other than WR and an olineman or two? So yeah, my draft would be defense heavy....again

[badboy]

Originally Posted by Corrosion

I dont know that Walter will be cut .... His cap hit is ~$4.5m but the actual savings against the cap is just under $2m.

The question is are you going to get a better player for that $2m , if not he's not going anywhere.


Got a list of players you feel are an upgrade for $2m or less ??

I don't think he got a signing (upfront) bonus that was prorated. He gets an annual $1m but seems either roster or performance based. IMO based on known info there is no bonus to move up if cut. There should be a true $4.5m cap savings. Also, that amount can be added to other sums to go get a very good WR. Eliminate A Smith $6m & Walter's $4.5m = FA starter money. Does not include the $2.4m that we found out will be brought forward or any other contract re-works. If McNair wants to spend we should be able to greatly improve this roster.

[b0ng]

I believe there are a lot of quality WR's that will be available at the bottom of round 1 and round 2. I do hope the Texans take one very high as this appears to be a very WR heavy draft. I don't really see an AJ Green or Julio Jones type (a player who could become the best in the league) but there is a lot of good talent.

This is, of course, just one man's humble opinion.

[TexanSam]

Are there any tight ends in this draft who have amazing potential? I don't think our 2nd best receiving option necessarily has to be a wide receiver. We definitely need one since AJ only has a few years left in his prime, but in the short term if a TE is a better option in the draft than a WR then maybe the Texans would go that route? OD, Casey, and Graham are all okay but all are replaceable if someone better is available I think.

[sandman]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

Doesn't pass the eye test.

Anyone who watches the games cant say that with a straight face.

I will let others have their stats ... I prefer to watch the games.

The only game that matters is the game that ends the season. I would say a defense that gave up 41 points is more indicative of the Texans not moving on than Schaub's performance.

That's like saying the Texans lost because Casey dropped a TD in the first 30 seconds of the game. Oh wait...

[steelbtexan]

[quote=badboy;2125658]I don't think he got a signing (upfront) bonus that was prorated. He gets an annual $1m but seems either roster or performance based. IMO based on known info there is no bonus to move up if cut. There should be a true $4.5m cap savings. Also, that amount can be added to other sums to go get a very good WR. Eliminate A Smith $6m & Walter's $4.5m = FA starter money. Does not include the $2.4m that we found out will be brought forward or any other contract re-works. If McNair wants to spend we should be able to greatly improve this roster.[/QUOTE

Yep

I would cut Walter and A.Smith, Draft Datone Jones and sign an up and coming WR like Rames-Barden. Then draft the best WR available in the 2nd rd. This would give the Texans a chance to have their best WR corps ever and possibly turn a weakness into a strength.

I would use the rest of the $$$$ saved on cutting A.Smith to bring in a vet NT like Casey Hampton. I know he's 35 but he was a very productive 2 down run stopper.

BoB probably wont be willing to do this.

[dream_team]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

Doesn't pass the eye test.

Anyone who watches the games cant say that with a straight face.

I will let others have their stats ... I prefer to watch the games.

I have watched every second, of every game, Schaub has played with the Texans. He gets the ball to the receivers just fine. Yes, I can say that with a straight face.

Does his performance degrade when he doesn't have good protection and has to make a play with his feet? No doubt... but doesn't change the fact he gets the ball to his receivers just fine.

I don't want to turn this into another Schaub thread... so all I'll say is I hope we get another playmaker at receiver (whether he's a WR or TE). Out of all the young guys we have, I thought Posey had the most potential to be that guy, but looks like we can't depend on him anymore. The more weapons we can give Schaub, the less his deficiencies become a problem.