Stupor Bowl Ring Not withstanding Joe Flacco STILL aint that great

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

If Flacco gets his 20 mil a season he will sodomize the rest of the team under the cap. Also expect your offensive co-ordinator to be offered a head coaching job.

What team still has a HC position open right now?

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Right now, I think Joe Flacco is the best QB in the league.

But I think Dread makes a good point. Doesn't change my mind, but it's a good point none-the-less.

The Ravens Defense is the reason Flacco was successful in his formative years. Same with Sanchez in his first two years. Flacco grew in that time, Sanchez did not.

Now, you can say the defense isn't what it used to be, because it isn't. But the bottom line is that Winning is the only thing that matters. If the Ravens lost that game, no one would be talking about Flacco & a Brinks truck...... well, they'd be talking about a much smaller Brinks truck. Similar to the deal he turned down. But since they won the Super Bowl, he can pretty much write his own check.

But the game was won with Flacco on the sideline.

The Ravens beat the Broncos & the Patriots... the defense gave up a lot of yards & a lot of points.... but Peyton Manning threw 2 interceptions & fumbled the ball twice. The Patriots didn't score more than 13 points.

You can say the defense didn't do jack & you can post stats, but just like 4000 yards, 22 TDs, 12 Ints, 90.9 QBr ratings don't mean crap to a majority of posters on this board, the stats showing how bad Baltimore's defense was in the play offs aren't telling the whole story.

Again. Joe Flacco is the best QB in the entire league.


If our defense allowed only 13 points to New England & we won the Super Bowl, would we be talking about our SB Champion QB or our bad ass Defense that stumped the 49ers on the goal line?

No offense, but you can't say the stuff your saying and be truthful. The game WASN'T won with him on sideline. You can't just pinpoint that goal line stand and say that he wouldn't have gotten paid. Because he still would have had a 124 QB rating, 11 TDs, 0 ints and they still would have had close to a minute and a half on the clock. You don't know the outcome if they score. Too much time left. They still had to run plays to end it. He'd still be getting paid the same. It is just easier with a SB MVP but them scoring there wouldn't hurt what he did. I can easily say.."defense doesn't have a chance to win the game without 3 first half TDs by Flacco"...see how that works. OR defense and Flacco owe Jacoby. The fact is, Dread was making it seem like the defense made Flacco's life easier all season...THIS season...and they didn't. He was the one carrying the team for the most part down the stretch.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

I can't argue with your logic. I still disagree, but I'd tip my hat to you (if I could get a hat over all this hair) for your well structured argument.

You know how we like to 3itch even if we win right? Had we won that game, like I said... we would be talking about our STs & our defense. Joe Flacco & his offense did not score one TD in the 4th qtr.

Jacoby Jones & his ST Td, Jacoby Jones with his catch & heads up play (thrown by Flacco)...... but from then on, it was the Ravens defense.

We would be 3itching about Kubiak going turtle & Schaub not taking chances as they hoist the Lombardi.

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

What team still has a HC position open right now?

Coaches get fired all the time...

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

The fact is, Dread was making it seem like the defense made Flacco's life easier all season...THIS season...and they didn't. He was the one carrying the team for the most part down the stretch.

Good points, I can't argue & I'm sure Dread is tired of me putting words in his mouth.

But I'd have loved it if our defense held Brady to 13 points. Not that that would have helped Schaub or anything, he'd still have to throw 2 TDs. It would have been nice if our defense could have made a great QB turn the ball over 3 times & almost a 4th. It would have been nice if our defense would have held the opponent to 0 points when they got the ball to the 5 yard line....

But our QB sucks & Joe Flacco is the best in the league (I truly believe the latter).

It doesn't matter what the other 52 guys do as long as your QB has a rocket laser arm & runs like a gazelle.....

Speaking of which, why isn't anyone talking about Collin Kaepernick? Why don't we have a 10 page thread going on about Kaepernick?

Do you think that would be different if their defense could have kept the Ravens out of Field goal range there in the 4th qtr? Would we even have a Flacco thread & a FlaccoFan building a nest here?

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Right now, I think Joe Flacco is the best QB in the league.

But I think Dread makes a good point. Doesn't change my mind, but it's a good point none-the-less.

The Ravens Defense is the reason Flacco was successful in his formative years. Same with Sanchez in his first two years. Flacco grew in that time, Sanchez did not.

Now, you can say the defense isn't what it used to be, because it isn't. But the bottom line is that Winning is the only thing that matters. If the Ravens lost that game, no one would be talking about Flacco & a Brinks truck...... well, they'd be talking about a much smaller Brinks truck. Similar to the deal he turned down. But since they won the Super Bowl, he can pretty much write his own check.

But the game was won with Flacco on the sideline.

The Ravens beat the Broncos & the Patriots... the defense gave up a lot of yards & a lot of points.... but Peyton Manning threw 2 interceptions & fumbled the ball twice. The Patriots didn't score more than 13 points.

You can say the defense didn't do jack & you can post stats, but just like 4000 yards, 22 TDs, 12 Ints, 90.9 QBr ratings don't mean crap to a majority of posters on this board, the stats showing how bad Baltimore's defense was in the play offs aren't telling the whole story.

Again. Joe Flacco is the best QB in the entire league.


If our defense allowed only 13 points to New England & we won the Super Bowl, would we be talking about our SB Champion QB or our bad ass Defense that stumped the 49ers on the goal line?

2 things won the playoffs and SB for Baltimore:

Red Zone Offense
Red Zone Defense

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

Coaches get fired all the time...

So, a Head Coach is going to be fired between now and Training Camp?

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Good points, I can't argue & I'm sure Dread is tired of me putting words in his mouth.

But I'd have loved it if our defense held Brady to 13 points. Not that that would have helped Schaub or anything, he'd still have to throw 2 TDs. It would have been nice if our defense could have made a great QB turn the ball over 3 times & almost a 4th. It would have been nice if our defense would have held the opponent to 0 points when they got the ball to the 5 yard line....

But our QB sucks & Joe Flacco is the best in the league (I truly believe the latter).

It doesn't matter what the other 52 guys do as long as your QB has a rocket laser arm & runs like a gazelle.....

Speaking of which, why isn't anyone talking about Collin Kaepernick? Why don't we have a 10 page thread going on about Kaepernick?

Do you think that would be different if their defense could have kept the Ravens out of Field goal range there in the 4th qtr? Would we even have a Flacco thread & a FlaccoFan building a nest here?

I know what you were getting at, I was just debating what I perceived was Dread's premise.

As for the bolded....LOVE the guy...more that RGIII and Wilson. Not that I don't think those guys are studs, I just love Kaepernicks arm, poise, ability to pick up large chunks with his legs without being a "running QB" and I think he does a great job of running without taking hits.

As for Flacco if they lose...this thread might not be here but my argument would be the same...the guy played his tail off the last 7 weeks or so.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

As for the bolded....LOVE the guy...more that RGIII and Wilson. Not that I don't think those guys are studs, I just love Kaepernicks arm, poise, ability to pick up large chunks with his legs without being a "running QB" and I think he does a great job of running without taking hits.

They're fun to watch, they add an extra dimension to their offenses. I give them that. But this isn't the first time the league has seen & dealt with QBs like them.

It's just the first time in a while that we've seen so many of them in the same year.

I'd like to see how they do, when their teams try to get more production from the pocket. Inevitably it will happen.

They're going to have to throw the ball in small windows more frequently, then we'll know.

Right now the only that I think has shown the accuracy he'll need has been RG3...... to me.

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

As for Flacco if they lose...this thread might not be here but my argument would be the same...the guy played his tail off the last 7 weeks or so.

Agreed, but some people wouldn't see that. Matt Ryan had an amazing run but most have already forgot about it.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

They're fun to watch, they add an extra dimension to their offenses. I give them that. But this isn't the first time the league has seen & dealt with QBs like them.

It's just the first time in a while that we've seen so many of them in the same year.

I'd like to see how they do, when their teams try to get more production from the pocket. Inevitably it will happen.

They're going to have to throw the ball in small windows more frequently, then we'll know.

Right now the only that I think has shown the accuracy he'll need has been RG3...... to me.


Agreed, but some people wouldn't see that. Matt Ryan had an amazing run but most have already forgot about it.

I said that about RGIII the other day. He doesn't need to run if he doesn't have to. He can be a pocket guy. I think Kaepernick can too. He has a big time arm and seemed to really be able to fit some throws into tight spaces...some to Vernon Davis. We will see on Wilson. Like him but not sure if he can be a guy that is pure pocket. Will always need to roll out as much as possible in my book.

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

2 things won the playoffs and SB for Baltimore:

Red Zone Offense
Red Zone Defense

(COUGH)Refereesnotejectingaplayerwhowouldhavebeenejected1 00%ofthetimehadhebeenwithanyotherteam(COUGH)ignoringnumerousoffsidesincludingonatwopointconver sion(COUGH)obviouspassinterferenceandholdingcallsnotcalled(ahem) Sorry...yeah...best team in the history of the Superbowl. The guys who won via blowouts and with good officiating...were WAY over-rated. Popcorn?

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

I said that about RGIII the other day. He doesn't need to run if he doesn't have to. He can be a pocket guy. I think Kaepernick can too. He has a big time arm and seemed to really be able to fit some throws into tight spaces...some to Vernon Davis. We will see on Wilson. Like him but not sure if he can be a guy that is pure pocket. Will always need to roll out as much as possible in my book.

They have what Vick doesn't have: accuracy a pocket presence.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

(COUGH)Refereesnotejectingaplayerwhowouldhavebeenejected1 00%ofthetimehadhebeenwithanyotherteam(COUGH)ignoringnumerousoffsidesincludingonatwopointconver sion(COUGH)obviouspassinterferenceandholdingcallsnotcalled(ahem) Sorry...yeah...best team in the history of the Superbowl. The guys who won via blowouts and with good officiating...were WAY over-rated. Popcorn?

Yoiu must have a pretty good case of the munchies by now....

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

Yoiu must have a pretty good case of the munchies by now....

Nope...don't do drugs. Never saw the point. It's been my experience that drugs alter reality to the point where those taking them are prone to believe that "marginal" & "adequate" are synonyms to "exceptional" rather than antonyms.


They causes people to hallucinate and think that the number "5" is actually the number "16" and that last name "Flacco" is spelled "M-O-N-T-A-N-A". I'd never do drugs. The dreadlocks throw lots of people off, but hey DO I appreciate your concern. You're a solid citizen.

SURE you don't want some popcorn?

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

They have what Vick doesn't have: accuracy a pocket presence.

True, but Vick is a more accurate passer than the Michael Vick of old.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

They have what Vick doesn't have: accuracy a pocket presence.

Respectfully disagree.

Michael Vick looked as good as any of those guys his first year out of prison.

2012, these guys were throwing to wide open receivers because of what their athleticism gains them. As soon as their OCs & HCs try to improve their production from the pocket, we'll see how accurate these guys are.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Respectfully disagree.

Michael Vick looked as good as any of those guys his first year out of prison.

Doesn't matter how respectfully you disagree but Vick had 13 passing attempts with 6 completions his first year out of prison.

You're looking for 2010 which was his eighth season in the NFL His pocket presence still sucked rocks as he took 34 sacks in 12 games.

Let's do it this way. We all know Vick is a fantastic athlete. We also know Schaub is a pedestrian athlete.

SCHAUB HAS TAKEN A 120 LESS SACKS IN THE SAME NUMBER OF GAMES. Let that sink in 120 less sacks - then tell us about Vick's great pocket presence.

[2012Champs]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Doesn't matter how respectfully you disagree but Vick had 13 passing attempts with 6 completions his first year out of prison.

You're looking for 2010 which was his eighth season in the NFL His pocket presence still sucked rocks as he took 34 sacks in 12 games.

Let's do it this way. We all know Vick is a fantastic athlete. We also know Schaub is a pedestrian athlete.

SCHAUB HAS TAKEN A 120 LESS SACKS IN THE SAME NUMBER OF GAMES. Let that sink in 120 less sacks - then tell us about Vick's great pocket presence.

That doesn't even sound right. Schaub at 120 less? My mind is blown

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Doesn't matter how respectfully you disagree but Vick had 13 passing attempts with 6 completions his first year out of prison.

You're looking for 2010 which was his eighth season in the NFL His pocket presence still sucked rocks as he took 34 sacks in 12 games.

Let's do it this way. We all know Vick is a fantastic athlete. We also know Schaub is a pedestrian athlete.

SCHAUB HAS TAKEN A 120 LESS SACKS IN THE SAME NUMBER OF GAMES. Let that sink in 120 less sacks - then tell us about Vick's great pocket presence.

Anyhow...... whenever it was, the season before he got his second $100M deal, people were talking about how much he grew as a QB. I think it was just that they hadn't seen his speed in a little while.

The league compensated & after he inked that deal, the windows got smaller & he didn't look like such a good QB anymore.

I predict the same thing is going to happen when Russell Wilson, & Collin Kaepernick have to throw into smaller windows.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Respectfully disagree.

Michael Vick looked as good as any of those guys his first year out of prison.

2012, these guys were throwing to wide open receivers because of what their athleticism gains them. As soon as their OCs & HCs try to improve their production from the pocket, we'll see how accurate these guys are.

Again, infantrycak wrote exactly what I was going o write.