Reasonable price for Barwin? *UPDATE* Signed by Eagles

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

I wouldn't have extended him last year. His contract wasn't up.

Still... if you think Barwin is worth $7M/yr, how much do you think Schaub is worth?

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Still... if you think Barwin is worth $7M/yr, how much do you think Schaub is worth?

I didn't communicate it well. I don't that either is really worth keeping.

I was saying that since we are paying Schaub the big contract and not getting much in return for it, then why not overpay Barwin too?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

I was saying that since we are paying Schaub the big contract and not getting much in return for it, then why not overpay Barwin too?

Much clearer..... thanks.

How much should we pay for a starting QB?

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Much clearer..... thanks.

How much should we pay for a starting QB?

I freely admit that I have no idea. I don't follow salaries. My sense is that you do, and I would be interested in hearing your view.

Schaub was here for years prior to 2012 and really hadn't done much. Why they believed that they had to extend his contract just doesn't make sense to me.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

I freely admit that I have no idea. I don't follow salaries. My sense is that you do, and I would be interested in hearing your view.

Schaub was here for years prior to 2012 and really hadn't done much. Why they believed that they had to extend his contract just doesn't make sense to me.

Even though they are three years younger, neither Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco set themselves apart from the avg QB before January 2013. But watching them play, you know they get it & will be better QBs in the future. There were of course questions, but the smart move was to lock these QBs up for the foreseeable future.

There were questions about Ryan's & Flacco's leadership. For Flacco there were & remain questions about his consistency. Schaub, like Ryan are pretty consistent QBs. There were questions about their big game ability, less so for Flacco... both have been answered (more or less) this year, but not for Schuab. This was the year we were going to find out how the three of them would perform on the big stage. But keep in mind both Flacco & Ryan have been in more big games, and failed, than Schaub.

If they passed with flying colors, their respective franchises would have to pay out the Wazoo to keep them. If they locked them up before this "breakout" season, they may get out with a deal. So to offer them the contract before the season is pretty much the franchise saying we have faith in you & your ability.

If you're in the "only thing that matter's is the W" group, then you're going to think Matt Schaub failed miserably. If you understand winning is a team thing & that Peyton Manning & Aaron Rogers were knocked out in the divisional round just like Matt Schaub, then you're going to look deeper, you're going to pull up your list of expectations & guage Matt next to those expectations.

Chances are rocket laser arm & run like a gazelle were not on Rick Smith/Kubiak's list. On the forum Matt's getting an F for the season. Chances are he's getting a B from the front office.

$12M/yr is a little more than competent starting QB money. It is nowhere near elite QB or even top 10 QB money. Top 10 QBs have salaries in the $10M/yr range, but their cap numbers are going to be closer to the $20M/yr that Flacco is asking for. With the cap rules & bonuses & contract structures, it is possible for a savy GM to keep that cap number down as long as possible, but sooner or later they've got to pay the piper.

[Rey]

Man just let Barwin go...He's not all that...

[Luv_ya_blue]

Originally Posted by Rey

Man just let Barwin go...He isn't anything at all...

fify

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Man just let Barwin go...He's not all that...

Eh.... I want Barwin to stay on the Strong side, I want to move Reed next to Cushing & I want to acquire an outside pass rusher.

If we get rid of Barwin, Reed stays at OLB, we need to acquire an ILB & an outside pass rusher.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Eh.... I want Barwin to stay on the Strong side, I want to move Reed next to Cushing & I want to acquire an outside pass rusher.

If we get rid of Barwin, Reed stays at OLB, we need to acquire an ILB & an outside pass rusher.

I don't really like the thought process of keeping guys just so you don't have to find new guys. I the guys you have are not good, they aren't good.

I think Reed is a bout the same as Barwin is tbh and I really dislike the thought of Reed being an ILB and bringing Barwin back.

I'd rather Reed stay at OLB, draft and bring in some good free agent ILB'...and draft an OLB....

I'm not a big Merciless fan either but sadly I think he has the most upside out of the top top three OLB's from this past year.

But yeah...I don't want Barwin back because I know he's not coming back for a low amount of money. He'd be a good back up though...

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

I don't really like the thought process of keeping guys just so you don't have to find new guys. I the guys you have are not good, they aren't good.

I think Reed is a bout the same as Barwin is tbh and I really dislike the thought of Reed being an ILB and bringing Barwin back.

Neither Barwin or Reed are pass rushers, but I think they're good football players. I think Barwin is better than Reed at SOLB, but Reed deserves to be on the field. So it's not that I think Barwin isn't any good, I just don't think he's a pass rusher & shouldn't be paid like one.

But he's a good football palyer.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

If Schaub played as well as we had hoped & we won the Super Bowl he'd be looking for $20M/yr like Flacco. Instead, we payed Schaub $12M/yr

How much do you think we should be paying a 12 win QB, a division champion QB, who played in the divisional round of the play offs?

He's had a 90% QBr since 2008, better than 60% completions since 2007. 4000 yards a season (even in winning seasons) or on pace for 4000 yards since the day he started for the Houston Texans.

How much do you think he should have been paid? Should we have just let him go?

Connor Barwin doesn't do crap in a contract year & you want to pay him $7M/yr or you hope he goes to another team & compete for a ring... how much do you think we should have paid Matt Schaub who has consistently been a better QB than Barwin has been a pass rusher over a longer period of time?

I think Schaub's 2012 base was about $4.4 m. I think his deal was very favorable for Texans. If one complains about Matt not taking to SB, same criticism should apply to all such as AJ, Foster, D. Brown, Watt, etc.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Neither Barwin or Reed are pass rushers, but I think they're good football players. I think Barwin is better than Reed at SOLB, but Reed deserves to be on the field. So it's not that I think Barwin isn't any good, I just don't think he's a pass rusher & shouldn't be paid like one.

But he's a good football palyer.

Connor Barwins and Brooks Reeds are a dime a dozen.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

I freely admit that I have no idea. I don't follow salaries. My sense is that you do, and I would be interested in hearing your view.

Schaub was here for years prior to 2012 and really hadn't done much. Why they believed that they had to extend his contract just doesn't make sense to me.

If they did not extend Schaub, what do they do if he decides to go elsewhere after contract expired? No FA that will do better and nothing in draft. You have to consider the entire thing not just let someone go.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by badboy

If they did not extend Schaub, what do they do if he decides to go elsewhere after contract expired? No FA that will do better and nothing in draft. You have to consider the entire thing not just let someone go.

I do not believe any team is throwing a bunch of money at Schaub, and if they did oh well...He's not worth it. Leaves us in a bit of a bind, but you could trade for Alex Smith or sign him if he's cut and get about the same results.

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by Rey

Connor Barwins and Brooks Reeds are a dime a dozen.

Actually, they're $36 to $60 million a dozen.

Figure of speech, I know. I just hate that particular figure of speech when applied to human life.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by badboy

I think Schaub's 2012 base was about $4.4 m. I think his deal was very favorable for Texans. If one complains about Matt not taking to SB, same criticism should apply to all such as AJ, Foster, D. Brown, Watt, etc.

I'm beginning to understand that the money isn't an issue for them. They know it's not their money so it really doesn't matter. But the fact that we've made a commitment to Matt Schaub which basically mean we are not trying to get better at the QB position.

I was in the same boat in 2009 (??) when they were trying to sign Dunta Robinson. If they signed Dunta Robinson, then there's no chance we draft a CB in the 1st or 2nd round & we never would have got Jjo if Kareem didn't look so bad his rookie year. Though Dunta had some skills & was a very good football player, I didn't think he was good enough to play CB on a championship caliber team.

He showed me some stuff since then, not what I want in a CB, but he was starting on a championship caliber team.

They may be right, Schaub may be a very good QB, just not a championship QB. They don't verbalize it as such, they say, "Stats don't matter, he don't win the big game!!"

& he hasn't. But neither had Joe Flacco & neither has Matt Ryan & even though most everyone put Ryan, Flacco, & Schaub in the same group... all of a sudden they argue he isn't even in that league.

[welsh texan]

TK, show me a one footed Flacco or Ryan and ill put them in the same group as Matt Schaub at this point. If Schaub makes it through the whole season next year then ill re-evaluate, but I saw an ageing and injured QB unable to last the full course this autumn, maybe part of it was reduced offseason conditioning due to the injury, but I don't subscribe to the viewpoint that his collaps was ALL mental.

I think he's like that 10 year old car that gradually edges closer and closer to being a technical write off just to pass its MOT. Well soon see but we've all seen QB's hit that wall after being perfectly serviceable, Donovan McNabb played in a SB, didn't make his collapse any less brutal did it.

Barwin, it's a bad time to lose the guy, the coaches have conceded defeat in the Brooks Reed project, at OLB at least. I can happily feel all optimistic about Merci but his rookie season left a lot to be desired as a first round pick, don't want to lump my eggs in that there basket, not in the short term future anyway, although I'm not in any way writing the guy off at this point.

Then you have the question of Connor Barwin, one double digit sack season, a rookie season that flashed good things in limited action, a lost 2nd year, and one huge egg laid wearing a pristine letterman jacket and posing for photos all the way to New England this past season.

Texans need to play hardball with this geezer, but his agent is going to be wanting 10+ sack season money, and you know what? From past experience I'm pretty sure some other team is going to be that desperate and offer what he's looking for. The dude is still young and has shown system versatility to an extent, coaches will believe in their own ability to get his best out of him and as such I don't see him on our team next year. Which is a shame because as poor as he was this past season, at the very least he'd be a good guy to have in a rotation, and odds are he'd be our #1 OLB again next season, but given where our cap stands, it just doesn't look to me like we can afford him.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

Barwin, it's a bad time to lose the guy, the coaches have conceded defeat in the Brooks Reed project, at OLB at least.

What did Barwin do in 2012 that Reed did not? I don't get why Reed is a failed project but it's a bad time to lose Barwin.

Originally Posted by badboy

If they did not extend Schaub, what do they do if he decides to go elsewhere after contract expired?

The Texans could have franchised Schaub for the same cap hit, or less, than his new contract ($17.5 million).

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Lucky

What did Barwin do in 2012 that Reed did not? I don't get why Reed is a failed project but it's a bad time to lose Barwin.

People think Reed is a failed "project" because of the talk (& that's all it is) of moving him to ILB. Saying that he couldn't excell at OLB so they're moving him to ILB.

However, this argument doesn't hold water as those same people will make up all kinds of romantic notions for moving Cushing from OLB, to MO, to MIKE, then back to MO.

For me, moving Reed to ILB is about putting as many play makers on the field as possible. Of course this means keeping Barwin, without Barwin, Reed stays at OLB.

[thunderkyss]

Just gotta say..... I'm worried that we haven't heard anything yet from the Texans concerning free agents.

Tomorrow is March 1st, the deadline is March 12th. Unless there is a lot of cap room that we haven't heard about yet, I would think the Texans would be making cuts, restructuring contracts, trading players, something.

We've got Connor to try to sign & we've got Quin to try to sign. Even if we can't get either of them, extra cap room would be nice.

I don't know how the Texans F.O. work, but I'd like to think if I were running the show, I would have a plan. How much cap space do we need to sign the guys we need. How do we clear that much cap space without hurting us too much in the future. I'd have decided which of my FAs I want to keep, & I would pursue keeping them. I'd have decided which FAs I'm not to worried about keeping & I'd try to trade them if I can, or go ahead let them know, & cut them. I'd have an idea of what players on other teams I'd like to try to acquire & open talks with those GMs.

Seems to me, this is too difficult for the Texans to do. I get the feeling that we're trying to sign Barwin then when that is done we'll move on to trying to sign Quin. Then we'll move on to whatever else they want to accomplish this off-season.