All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Look at the way the Ravens handled the Flacco situation as a template.

I don't know what's true here. After the game, the NFLN guys were talking to Joe & asked him what he thought about the decision he made to wait till after the season.

Led me to believe the Ravens made him an offer, but Flacco thought he was worth more.

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

I don't know what's true here. After the game, the NFLN guys were talking to Joe & asked him what he thought about the decision he made to wait till after the season.

Led me to believe the Ravens made him an offer, but Flacco thought he was worth more.

Yeah, I've been wondering if Flacco knew he could do more....possibly with a better OC.

[deucetx]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

I don't know what's true here. After the game, the NFLN guys were talking to Joe & asked him what he thought about the decision he made to wait till after the season.

Led me to believe the Ravens made him an offer, but Flacco thought he was worth more.

Yep, that's correct. It wasn't the Ravens who tabled the talks but Flacco himself. He felt he deserved more and took the risk. Guess his gamble paid off and his agent is seeking top five quarterback type money. So really didn't have much to do with the Ravens handling him properly but Flacco's own actions of turning down an offer and August and pushing it to the side to show what he's about.

As for Schaub...well...its a pain. I'm not Schaub fan and sometimes refer to him is Matt Campbell for that chicken noodle soup of an arm. Nonetheless, I still think we can win with him. If Hassleback can get there so can Matt. He's just the type that needs things going right so we need to improve the talent around him more. Yes, we already have talent on offense with Foster, Dre and O.D. but we have to realize what we have. Schaub is not elite and at this point not even a tier 2 type of guy. He'd probably fall right behind that second group of quarterbacks which means he needs more around him.

It sucks but it is what it is. He's not going anywhere so you got make this offense as much as it can be. He just may not be the type that can carry a team but he can be an essential link in the chain of a total package....so to speak lol

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by deucetx

As for Schaub...well...its a pain. I'm not Schaub fan and sometimes refer to him is Matt Campbell for that chicken noodle soup of an arm. Nonetheless, I still think we can win with him. If Hassleback can get there so can Matt. He's just the type that needs things going right so we need to improve the talent around him more. Yes, we already have talent on offense with Foster, Dre and O.D. but we have to realize what we have. Schaub is not elite and at this point not even a tier 2 type of guy. He'd probably fall right behind that second group of quarterbacks which means he needs more around him.

He looks better when we play up tempo. He looks better when we play 3 or 4 WRs. If we do more of that, then I think Schaub can, has, & will play "better" More than just a game manager.

Since the kids failed Kubiak, or Kubiak failed the kids, we played more 2 TE sets than we ever had this year & our TEs aren't going to stretch the field like a Gronk or Graham, or Vernon Davis.

Our TEs are good, but they aren't "that" kind of good.

Hopefully next year, with another year starting on the line (Jones & Newton) & these young receivers with Kubiak, we can get back to stretching the field vertically (we used to lead the league in big plays) & horizontally (with the zone stretch).

[Hervoyel]

The Texans need to go ahead and start building OL bigtime. If the reality is that Matt Schaub is "Da' Man! (TM)" in their eyes then they need to get something straight; The running game can't be AWOL against the better teams. It's time to put some money into the line. Keep your lousy WR corps (excluding AJ of course) and roll with your collection of generally slow but reliable TE's and build a unit that can't be denied on the ground. That's a must because you're damn sure not going to get there through the air.

You can even keep running Walter out there.

Then hope enough breaks go your way to get to the Super Bowl.

[Yesterday]

For those of you saying we can win with Matt, we just need to give him a LOT of help...you may be right. But the sickening thing is we are paying him ~62 million over 4 years (roughly 15.5 million / season).

Yes, the Ravens won it all with Trent Dilfer. yes, the Seahawks got there with Matt Hasselbeck. But those players were paid peanuts compared to Schaub (I think Dilfer was only a couple million a year, Hasselbeck like 5ish)
Brad Johnson? Same story.

The fact of the matter is we overpaid Schaub (and subsequently couldn't afford to keep the right side of our line, which hurt our running game significantly).

Can we win a super bowl with Matt Schaub? Yes. Can we win one with him taking up such a big portion of our salary cap? I don't think so. TJ Yates made ~500,000 this season. Do you really think that Matt Schaub is $15 million/season better than TJ Yates?

You can't overpay players consistently and win.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

For those of you saying we can win with Matt, we just need to give him a LOT of help...you may be right. But the sickening thing is we are paying him ~62 million over 4 years (roughly 15.5 million / season).

I don't think Flacco is in the big game without Torrey Smith. Probably not in the play offs.

The Ravens showed up. Top to bottom, 22+ guys showed up in January & won a championship. It wasn't just Flacco. Bolden made some amazing catches. Pitta showed up at the right time, the OL was excellent. Ray Rice kept them on schedule.

We're not saying Matt needs anything any other QB doesn't need. The Patriots run game, receivers, & defense let them down & they lost the AFC Championship game. They didn't have Shane Vareen stepping up, or Welker with 100+ yards in the first half.

True, Brady, Brees, & Rogers makes their guys look better. But Brady, Brees, & Rogers aren't the only guys winning Super Bowls.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

I don't think Flacco is in the big game without Torrey Smith. Probably not in the play offs.

The Ravens showed up. Top to bottom, 22+ guys showed up in January & won a championship. It wasn't just Flacco. Bolden made some amazing catches. Pitta showed up at the right time, the OL was excellent. Ray Rice kept them on schedule.

We're not saying Matt needs anything any other QB doesn't need. The Patriots run game, receivers, & defense let them down & they lost the AFC Championship game. They didn't have Shane Vareen stepping up, or Welker with 100+ yards in the first half.

True, Brady, Brees, & Rogers makes their guys look better. But Brady, Brees, & Rogers aren't the only guys winning Super Bowls.

Add in Eli Manning and yes those are the guys winning SB's. Flacco would've been in the SB last yr if not for the Evans dropped TD pass.

I would like to see a limk that says Flacco stopped contract negs. If he did it means he truly thought he should've been in the SB last yr. Flacco is a risk taker. Schaub well lets just say his personality fits the Gary led Texans perfectly.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Add in Eli Manning and yes those are the guys winning SB's. Flacco would've been in the SB last yr if not for the Evans dropped TD pass.

I would like to see a limk that says Flacco stopped contract negs. If he did it means he truly thought he should've been in the SB last yr. Flacco is a risk taker. Schaub well lets just say his personality fits the Gary led Texans perfectly.

Well, saying that Schaub is not a risk taker is more or less correct, but neither are Brady or Brees. And those guys are elite QBs, while I only rate Schaub to be somewhere between 11-15, which is just a tad above mediocre.

I think the main reason is that these offenses are geared more toward stretching the field horizontally.

Over the course of their careers so far, Brady has only attempted 1% more deep passes than Schaub while Brees is lagging Schaub by 1/2%

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Well, saying that Schaub is not a risk taker is more or less correct, but neither are Brady or Brees. And those guys are elite QBs, while I only rate Schaub to be somewhere between 11-15, which is just a tad above mediocre.

I think the main reason is that these offenses are geared more toward stretching the field horizontally.

Over the course of their careers so far, Brady has only attempted 1% more deep passes than Schaub while Brees is lagging Schaub by 1/2%

Completely irrelevant stat. Our entire offense is based around a high % of deep balls (on PA in particular). Under-throwing the ball 40 yards downfield to a wide open AJ does not mean he's a risk-taker. And Brees is certainly a risk-taker, anyone who watches him can see that.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

Completely irrelevant stat. Our entire offense is based around a high % of deep balls (on PA in particular). Under-throwing the ball 40 yards downfield to a wide open AJ does not mean he's a risk-taker. And Brees is certainly a risk-taker, anyone who watches him can see that.

So you're saying that even though Brees doesn't attempt a lot of deep passes, he's still taking a lot of risk?

[Yesterday]

He does attempt a lot of deep passes. He makes throws down the field that Schaub could only dream of. Do you watch Saints games? Just b/c Schaub throws a higher % of deep passes doesn't mean he is taking more risks.

[deucetx]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

I would like to see a limk that says Flacco stopped contract negs. If he did it means he truly thought he should've been in the SB last yr. Flacco is a risk taker. Schaub well lets just say his personality fits the Gary led Texans perfectly.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...up_famous.html

Excerpt:

Flacco ended contract extension talks before the season and stands to earn millions of dollars more because of the gamble. His five-year deal expires in March. The Ravens could place their franchise tag on Flacco, but his Super Bowl victory all but guarantees that his team will give him a new deal in line with other elite quarterbacks.

The deal he turned down was reportedly $16m per. Apparently the word is he feels he deserves top 5 money around $20m per. He gambled and now can run around yelling "Cha-Ching!!!!"

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

He does attempt a lot of deep passes. He makes throws down the field that Schaub could only dream of. Do you watch Saints games? Just b/c Schaub throws a higher % of deep passes doesn't mean he is taking more risks.

Well, I just watched a video of Brees describing his two INTs against the Giants for example. Basically, every veteran QB takes a little more chance when they're behind; most QBs really, unless they are really reigned in by their coaches. One was tipped; the other Brees said he threw it exactly where he wanted it to be.

I think he threw a bunch of them against the Falcons, too.
I watched that game, and I don't think there was much risk involved.
Maybe one was (it's been awhile.)

But I don't associate Brees with risk.
Favre was a risk taker; Cutler was a risk taker.

I don't consider a Hail Mary at the end of each half a risk.
I don't consider a deep throw on third and long in no man land a risk.
They are good percentage passes; if you complete it, good; if not, it's like a punt.

[76Texan]

OK, so like I just rewatched the Saints/Skins game in week 1 to track all passes 15 yards and deeper.

Brees threw 2 INTs.

On the first one, the Saints had max-protect (7 to block 5; actually only 4 guys really rushed the passer; the other was just waiting for the back to come out of the backfield to cover him.)
The receiver was open, but somehow the Skins was able to push the pocket right up to Brees at the last moment; the pass sailed a high and the safety intercepted it.
That is not a risk. You're supposed to have a good pocket in max-protect for at least 3 seconds.

The other INT was at the end of the game, with the Saints trailing by 8 I think.
With hardly any time left, Brees threw a Hail Mary into the end zone and was intercepted. I don't call that a risk either. You just have to hope for something there, that's all.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by deucetx

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/...up_famous.html

Excerpt:

Flacco ended contract extension talks before the season and stands to earn millions of dollars more because of the gamble. His five-year deal expires in March. The Ravens could place their franchise tag on Flacco, but his Super Bowl victory all but guarantees that his team will give him a new deal in line with other elite quarterbacks.

The deal he turned down was reportedly $16m per. Apparently the word is he feels he deserves top 5 money around $20m per. He gambled and now can run around yelling "Cha-Ching!!!!"

What if they can't work a deal and Flacco hits the free agent market.... and then signs with the Browns. That would be epic!

[76Texan]

At any rate, if we cut Schaub, we still save $4M in salary next year if we go with either Yates or Keenum.

All the dead money still remains, but it's going to be there no matter what.

I'm for giving Yates and Keenum long looks next pre-season.
If one of them looks good while Schaub shows not to be sharper with his decisions and his throws; I would cut Schaub and take that money to sign a backup QB when needed.

If Schaub outplays both of them rather convincingly, it should mean that he's back to form (ie., from a tad above mediocre back to borderline top ten) I would keep him.

We can still cut Schaub during the season if he regresses again.
I'm not a Schaub lover nor hater; I just want to see good QB play; that is all.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

What if they can't work a deal and Flacco hits the free agent market.... and then signs with the Browns. That would be epic!

The Ravens are going to look like a55hats if they end up franchising him.

[GP]

I think the locker room in one place was a little uncomfortable that a guy got a big extension after the first reg season game.

And I think another locker room, way over across the country, was pretty excited that their "franchise QB" was going to have to earn his extension the old fashioned way. Like everyone else.

These types of things with QBs, it matters to the other 52 guys. Because he's the guy at the top. It starts and ends with him. Always has, always will.

This is just to follow up on vinny's take earlier. Which is something I co-sign and have felt since about early December 2012.

What we need is a QB who has to have a dynamic year to get a big deal. That likely won't' happen for another 2+ years now. Awesome.

[buddyboy]

Originally Posted by ckhouston

I'm not cynical I'm rational.

I feel sorry for people who go through their lives believing everything they read or hear.

Do you really think if that locker room doubted him they would say so publicly?

No I am not the guy who knows anyone, but do know that this society has become politically correct to its own demise and that doesn't stop with the sporting world.

When do you ever hear anyone in our locker room criticizing anything?

Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me you believe each and every person in the organization believes it is all great and there are no issues? C'mon man ...

That wasn't the argument, don't make up arguments to knock down. The argument was that the locker room supports Schaub.

It's one thing to be cynical. That's hearing one thing, and doubting it, finding evidence, and proving it wrong. What you are doing is hearing one thing, doubting it, and then declaring everyone who believes it to be wrong with no proof but your own "realism".