Stupor Bowl Ring Not withstanding Joe Flacco STILL aint that great

[dream_team]

Here's a better question. Would you pay 12+ mil a year for him? I think that's what Baltimore will end up giving him. Flacco made the smartest decision in his life by not extending before the season.

[Goatcheese]

Flacco isn't a bum, but nobody was calling this guy elite 4 weeks ago. Suddenly he has 2 good games (nothing amazing) and one decent game and he's being talked about like a guy who carries his team.

The playoffs have moved his valuation up, but you can't just erase years of average play.

He's never thrown for over 4,000 yards, and his best YPA season was just 7.4. He's not a guy who can throw a mediocre team on his back and take them deep in the playoffs every year like a Manning, Brady or Brees.

I would still rank him bellow Schaub and Rapistburger.

Originally Posted by dream_team

Here's a better question. Would you pay 12+ mil a year for him? I think that's what Baltimore will end up giving him. Flacco made the smartest decision in his life by not extending before the season.

With the state of QB salaries, Flacco has earned $12+ mil and I think most teams who don't have a better QB would cough up that and then some.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Vinny

I find it hard to believe that people watching the playoffs can come to the conclusion that Joe Flacco isn't that good. Bolden is past his prime and cannot create separation and Flacco made some UNREAL passes to him in tight coverages. Flacco escaping the rush was just awesome yesterday...Shaub would have been killed or at least those balls were in the cheap seats but Flacco made completions out of them. Kudos to Bolden for beasting up and making strong-man catches, but it continues to amaze me when people debate if a guy is good or not right after he plays a great series of games.

You can continue to stay married to your 2010 take on Flacco....I'll stick to what my eyes tell me in 2013

This!!!!

11 TDs, 0 interceptions in playoffs. 124 QB rating in SB. And your behind the times if your pumping up their D. They were around 17th in every major category this year. Not the same team. He also was great using Torrey Smith and Jacoby. This is a fail when it comes to post ideas.

BTW, post Cam Cameron 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int.

[handswarmer]

The lack of information nd football knowledge displayed in tis thread is astounding....

Dutchrudder, Texecutioner, CKHouston, Vinny and Houston Frog and others all made very salient points.

Others are like Jamie Dukes on NLFN and are still looking at Joe like its 09 or 10 seasons.

FWIW:

- Flacco has as many post season wins as Peyton Manning

- Flacco is tied with Joe Montana and Steve Young in post season history with 11 TDS and Zero INTS

- Flacco's records are too numerous to list in all seriousness.

The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.

Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

This!!!!

11 TDs, 0 interceptions in playoffs. 124 QB rating in SB. And your behind the times if your pumping up their D. They were around 17th in every major category this year. Not the same team. He also was great using Torrey Smith and Jacoby. This is a fail when it comes to post ideas.

BTW, post Cam Cameron 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int.

There's another thread ("Oh my...") where the writer questions the small sample sizes we use to formulate our opinions. This 7 game stretch you're mentioning is just that. I'd have to imagine Flacco has posted similar numbers at some other time in his career. His play off performance last year was just as impressive as what he had done this year.

Just saying I don't know that removing Cam Cameron equals a better Flacco. When they played us over the last two or three years, they seemed to go deep quite a bit. They've always had a vertical offense, they just had issues providing the protection needed to do so.

Then there's the "firing the OC will light a fire under their butts" thing. Just the fact that Cameron was fired mid season could have been the mental motivation they needed & it's affects could wear off by September. Not saying that's the case, just saying that may be the primary reason for this "short-term" performance.

I'm all about Flacco, I think his stock has gone up as a result of his most recent play-off performance. I think it's confirmation of what we saw last year. So it's not that I don't think much of Flacco, just what we're attributing his success to. He's always been streaky. A couple of great games followed by a couple of duds.

He's definitely one of the better QBs in the league, but to be elite (not that you're saying he's elite) he's got to minimize those dud games.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.

Maybe you should take up another hobby if it's getting too intense for you. This isn't going to go away, it's just getting started. & if you're going to get your panties in a wad every time it comes up.... maybe you need a time out.

Originally Posted by handswarmer

Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.

For some reason that doesn't scare me. I'm not worried about playing the Ravens next year. Our chances of winning is 50/50 if not better. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we're favored to win by more than the home field advantage (-3 if at Reliant).

Seriously doubt we'll be favored against the Patriots or the Packers or Saints (thank God we're not playing the Packers or Saints).

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

There's another thread ("Oh my...") where the writer questions the small sample sizes we use to formulate our opinions. This 7 game stretch you're mentioning is just that. I'd have to imagine Flacco has posted similar numbers at some other time in his career. His play off performance last year was just as impressive as what he had done this year.

Just saying I don't know that removing Cam Cameron equals a better Flacco. When they played us over the last two or three years, they seemed to go deep quite a bit. They've always had a vertical offense, they just had issues providing the protection needed to do so.

Then there's the "firing the OC will light a fire under their butts" thing. Just the fact that Cameron was fired mid season could have been the mental motivation they needed & it's affects could wear off by September. Not saying that's the case, just saying that may be the primary reason for this "short-term" performance.

I'm all about Flacco, I think his stock has gone up as a result of his most recent play-off performance. I think it's confirmation of what we saw last year. So it's not that I don't think much of Flacco, just what we're attributing his success to. He's always been streaky. A couple of great games followed by a couple of duds.

He's definitely one of the better QBs in the league, but to be elite (not that you're saying he's elite) he's got to minimize those dud games.

Give me a break. They haven't always been vertical. They have TRIED to be vertical but Cameron was giving the ball to Rice around 44% of the plays...which equals no play action and no one open deep. When Caldwell took over, Rice started getting it around 51% of the time and all of a sudden the deep ball and play action were open. Coincidence?

I don't care when his streak was. They just beat Indy, went on the road and beat Denver, went on the road and beat NE and then played in the SB and beat SF. Arguably the 3 top teams in the league in a row. In that span he doesn't throw an interception. Sorry, you can speculate all you want, the numbers play out that he played his tail off and stepped it up another level. Saying anything else is untruthful.

As for the word elite...I don't use it and not sure this makes him elite. I just know what he did was awesome. But there are elite QBs that all have dud games. Brady, Rodgers, etc all have bad games. So saying he has to be a stud for 16 games and playoffs makes no sense.

[GP]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

The lack of information nd football knowledge displayed in tis thread is astounding....

Dutchrudder, Texecutioner, CKHouston, Vinny and Houston Frog and others all made very salient points.

Others are like Jamie Dukes on NLFN and are still looking at Joe like its 09 or 10 seasons.

FWIW:

- Flacco has as many post season wins as Peyton Manning

- Flacco is tied with Joe Montana and Steve Young in post season history with 11 TDS and Zero INTS

- Flacco's records are too numerous to list in all seriousness.

The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.

Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.

You left me off the Nice List

90% of us are accepting of Flacco. The hold-outs are more or less "sour grapes" posters who are jealous that a "blah" QB not named Matt Schaub won a ring.

Flacco's performance has underscored or highlighted Matt Schaub's lack of Big Game capabilities.

Jacoby's performance has done the same to Kubiak's player management and ineffectiveness at using the talent in ways that focuses on player strengths, i.e. "Letting the guys play and leaving the micromanagement at home." Once Jacoby landed on a team that didn't have a water-tight sphincter for a head coach, he becomes a new man all of a sudden.

So there's a few reasons why some Texans fans are not going to give propers to the Ravens. IMO, has less to do with lack of football knowledge and more to do with sour grapes AND a lack of reality in terms of how our team is woefully mismanaged by its HC.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by GP

So there's a few reasons why some Texans fans are not going to give propers to the Ravens. IMO, has less to do with lack of football knowledge and more to do with sour grapes AND a lack of reality in terms of how our team is woefully mismanaged by its HC.

This.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Give me a break. They haven't always been vertical. They have TRIED to be vertical but Cameron was giving the ball to Rice around 44% of the plays...which equals no play action and no one open deep. When Caldwell took over, Rice started getting it around 51% of the time and all of a sudden the deep ball and play action were open. Coincidence?

I don't care when his streak was. They just beat Indy, went on the road and beat Denver, went on the road and beat NE and then played in the SB and beat SF. Arguably the 3 top teams in the league in a row. In that span he doesn't throw an interception. Sorry, you can speculate all you want, the numbers play out that he played his tail off and stepped it up another level. Saying anything else is untruthful.

Give me a break. I didn't say anything contrary to what you just said. They're more vertical now than they were under Cam... doesn't contradict what I said when you state they were "trying" to be vertical.. which is what I said.

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

As for the word elite...I don't use it and not sure this makes him elite. I just know what he did was awesome. But there are elite QBs that all have dud games. Brady, Rodgers, etc all have bad games. So saying he has to be a stud for 16 games and playoffs makes no sense.

I agree, which is why I didn't say that.

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by Rey

Must spread....

I do not know what people look at sometimes...

Carr had Andre Johnson, but now if he gets Boldin AND A DEFENSE WHO HAS TO BE FED RAW MEAT he's winning superbowls??

There...fixed it for ya. Carr is now a back up to a guy who is slightly better than HE is but has a WALL of a defense which earned them BOTH of their superbowl rings. And doesn't Carr HAVE a ring now?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by GP

Flacco's performance has underscored or highlighted Matt Schaub's lack of Big Game capabilities.

Flacco's performance definitely highlighted Matt's lack of big game production.

I am not convinced that Matt is not capable. He's definitely not capable in the way that Flacco is (though some will point to Flacco's undrthrown deep balls), but Matt is capable none the less.

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by Luv_ya_blue

He absolutely made some great passes.
I just don't see Flacco nearly as much "elite" as he is, fortunate to fit into the system.

I could be wrong.

Thank you!

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Give me a break. I didn't say anything contrary to what you just said. They're more vertical now than they were under Cam... doesn't contradict what I said when you state they were "trying" to be vertical.. which is what I said.


I agree, which is why I didn't say that.

You said "He's definitely one of the better QBs in the league, but to be elite (not that you're saying he's elite) he's got to minimize those dud games."

My point being that you can't eliminate dud games. They happen to everyone. I'm not going to downgrade a guy who plays well when he has some bad games unless it becomes consistently like that or trends start developing.

You also said "they always had a vertical offense." The difference between what we are talking here is trying and having one. They way you talked Flacco was that he always threw deep and just now got streaky. My point was that he was put in the right offense finally to make it more about the talent he has always had vs. having to force despite the way the offense was run. My argument is he always had this talent but we are just now seeing what he can do with it. As I said, 0 ints vs Indy, Denver, NE and SF big time.

We are splitting hairs but when you jumped in and in yesterdays Schaub thread you definitely have/had a beef with Flacco being considered a top QB.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by GP

You left me off the Nice List

90% of us are accepting of Flacco. The hold-outs are more or less "sour grapes" posters who are jealous that a "blah" QB not named Matt Schaub won a ring.

Flacco's performance has underscored or highlighted Matt Schaub's lack of Big Game capabilities.

Jacoby's performance has done the same to Kubiak's player management and ineffectiveness at using the talent in ways that focuses on player strengths, i.e. "Letting the guys play and leaving the micromanagement at home." Once Jacoby landed on a team that didn't have a water-tight sphincter for a head coach, he becomes a new man all of a sudden.

So there's a few reasons why some Texans fans are not going to give propers to the Ravens. IMO, has less to do with lack of football knowledge and more to do with sour grapes AND a lack of reality in terms of how our team is woefully mismanaged by its HC.

Sorry bud....you nailed it.....back on the nice list

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

The lack of information nd football knowledge displayed in tis thread is astounding....

Dutchrudder, Texecutioner, CKHouston, Vinny and Houston Frog and others all made very salient points.

Others are like Jamie Dukes on NLFN and are still looking at Joe like its 09 or 10 seasons.

FWIW:

- Flacco has as many post season wins as Peyton Manning

- Flacco is tied with Joe Montana and Steve Young in post season history with 11 TDS and Zero INTS

- Flacco's records are too numerous to list in all seriousness.

The "ELITE" debate is stupid and meaningless= its a fool's debate because the debate is never quantified, the requirements for making the determination are never set and the guidelines are stretched, abused and broken to make an argument/point.

Joe is a SB MVP, a SB Champ and our QB....and will be for a long long time.

Handswarmer baby, take off your fan goggles for a minute here. Your team just won the Superbowl and you're still smiling from ear to ear and that's great, But ...and I love big "buts" and I can not lie I have to burst your bubble right quick. When fans see "Baltimore" on their team's schedule they think: "Oh God! RAY LEWIS!" or "Damn! Our Receivers will have their hands full trying to get past Ed Reed and that secondary" and even "man, that is one tough defense." NO ONE is thinking "OH MY GOD! We have to have to face FLACCO!" You're a loyal Raven fan which is why you're comparing him to Payton Manning, but you're comparing apples and tomatoes. Both are fruit, but hardly simular. Joe Montana? Now you've gone from rabid fan to either delusional or HIGH. You might as well say Flacco is better than Dan Marino and Mr. Warren Moon because neither of them has a Superbowl ring and HE does. Joe Montana got into the hall of fame on the first ballot and has FOUR of these . Flacco just got his ONE. If your team is facing the Ravens Flacco is an AFTERTHOUGHT. He's a mediocre QB on a team with a GREAT defense. I'm not trying to be harsh here man, but it's the truth.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Maybe you should take up another hobby if it's getting too intense for you. This isn't going to go away, it's just getting started. & if you're going to get your panties in a wad every time it comes up.... maybe you need a time out.




For some reason that doesn't scare me. I'm not worried about playing the Ravens next year. Our chances of winning is 50/50 if not better. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we're favored to win by more than the home field advantage (-3 if at Reliant).

Seriously doubt we'll be favored against the Patriots or the Packers or Saints (thank God we're not playing the Packers or Saints).

LOL! You've never seen me upset...I just dislike the "Lists" that people come up with ("The Best Tailgate in th NFL" or "Top QB's of ALL TIME") but provide no criteria for determining the list. No Guidelines.

That is all- and I never said te Ravens should strike fear into anyone next year. They will have alot of FA that will be cashing in with new teams- Ravens are up aganst the Cap and have to sign Flacco, Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, Pitta, etc.......besides signin all the draft picks....I expect 8-8, 9-7....

[Dread-Head]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

LOL! You've never seen me upset...I just dislike the "Lists" that people come up with ("The Best Tailgate in th NFL" or "Top QB's of ALL TIME") but provide no criteria for determining the list. No Guidelines.

That is all- and I never said te Ravens should strike fear into anyone next year. They will have alot of FA that will be cashing in with new teams- Ravens are up aganst the Cap and have to sign Flacco, Reed, Kruger, Ellerbe, Pitta, etc.......besides signin all the draft picks....I expect 8-8, 9-7....

Flacco needs to ask for 10 mil a season and leave it at that. His 20 mil will screw the rest of the team with the cap. There will be a HUGE dif in that Defense without Ray. There will be no DYNASTY and they like many defending champs won't make it two in a row. This is merely the end of the Ray Lewis era.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

Handswarmer baby, take off your fan goggles for a minute here. Your team just won the Superbowl and you're still smiling from ear to ear and that's great, But ...and I love big "buts" and I can not lie I have to burst your bubble right quick. When fans see "Baltimore" on their team's schedule they think: "Oh God! RAY LEWIS!" or "Damn! Our Receivers will have their hands full trying to get past Ed Reed and that secondary" and even "man, that is one tough defense." NO ONE is thinking "OH MY GOD! We have to have to face FLACCO!" You're a loyal Raven fan which is why you're comparing him to Payton Manning, but you're comparing apples and tomatoes. Both are fruit, but hardly simular. Joe Montana? Now you've gone from rabid fan to either delusional or HIGH. You might as well say Flacco is better than Dan Marino and Mr. Warren Moon because neither of them has a Superbowl ring and HE does. Joe Montana got into the hall of fame on the first ballot and has FOUR of these . Flacco just got his ONE. If your team is facing the Ravens Flacco is an AFTERTHOUGHT. I'm not trying to be harsh here man, but it's the truth.

He has as many rings as Manning, P.

As many as Kurt Warner.

I pointed out that Flacco threw for 11 TDs and Zero Interceptions which tied the record for most TD's without an Interception in th playoffs. Montana happens to head the list.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Dread-Head

Flacco needs to ask for 10 mil a season and leave it at that. His 20 mil will screw the rest of the team with the cap. There will be a HUGE dif in that Defense without Ray. There will be no DYNASTY and they like many defending champs won't make it two in a row. This is merely the end of the Ray Lewis era.

#1- Check out the coming salaries for QB's http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/...3/quarterback/ He beat #1- in his house.

#2- If you think that Ray's ret will be a detriment to the defense, then you haven't been watching. I expect it to be te same maybe even better. His knowledge couldn't ****er the loss of speed on the field- watch the playoffs over again, especially in the SB- the 9er's tore him an new hole across the middle...