All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

But those teams were on fire going into the playoffs when they won. We were limping. That is the biggest factor in my opinion; our team peaked in the Baltimore game (losing Cush didn't help, and neither did the complete breakdown of our offense)

The Ravens lost 4 of their last 5.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

You are so all over the place.

No, they don't replace Brady because he is an all time great that wins every year and pretty much doesn't have any of the issues with arm strength and pocket ability that Schaub has. How is that not recognizable. You making that leap is just nonsense. It's been going on for more than just this year.

Flacco wasn't playing bad as much as their coordinator wasn't putting he or Rice in a position to use their strengths. Once that happened he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int. Schaub is always going to be in this system and when the system clicks he is fine. But his arm and pocket awareness under pressure will always be a question. Those just don't come out of the blue after 7 years or so. Again, expecting him to click for a full year means he has to have max protection and a great running game EVERY game. I never said get rid of him. I just said its foolish to compare Schaub to Flacco at this point. Two trains.

Yep Schaub and Flacco are 2 trains going in opposite directions.

Schaub has never been mobile or had a strong arm. But since his foot injury he cant navigate the pocket and has lost accuracy. There's a corralation between the problems and the foot injury. IMHO Fiddler/Thunderkyss disagrres with me about this. It's obvious to me and this yr is probably about as good as it's going to get for Schaub. Scary as we look into the future.

BTW TK, Mario is still an overpaid slacker. LOL

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

BTW TK, Mario is still an overpaid slacker. LOL

Hate the game, not the player.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

For years, Matt has been one of the better QBs in the league, despite his limitations & Tom Brady looked just as bad as Schaub in the AFC Championship game. A lot of what we're saying about Schaub right now, is being said about Brady on Patsfan, right now. They are talking about not throwing downfield, they are talking about not being able to make plays outside of the pocket.

I'm not saying that Matt is in the same league with Brady. I understand the anger if that's what you're thinking I'm saying. I am saying Brady couldn't carry his team to a victory in the play offs playing play off competition. He needed his defense to play better. He needed his pass protection to play better. He needed his receivers & the run game to be better than what it was.

Collin Kaepernick couldn't get it done without his defense playing like a top 5 defense for 60 minutes.

Flacco wouldn't be the Super Bowl MVP if his defense hadn't shown up or his running game wasn't there, or if his receivers dropped as many balls as Brady's receivers.

A QB can win a game in the regular season. A QB could win one of those two games we lost down the stretch.... Minny & Indy. But a QB isn't going to carry a team to a Super Bowl Championship. Peyton hasn't done it. McNabb couldn't do it. Elway couldn't do it. It's never happened before & it won't happen for Matt Schaub.


The coordinator was fired because he wasn't using Ray Rice enough. Flacco never had a lack of opportunity to throw the ball downfield. The biggest thing that attributed to Flacco's play off performance was probably the rearranging of the OL.

Flacco and Cameron butted heads all the time and Flacco was not a fan. Their offense was dated and predictable. He didn't use Rice but they also didn't test defenses effectively with Smith and Jones because of not using Rice. There was no room for play action. Once that changed under Caldwell, you saw what he was capable of. My point being he had room to improve because much of what was happening was their play calling. With Schaub its more "can he get it downfield" and "can he stay clean and still make plays." As we saw last night Flacco can avoid a rush.

As far as a QB needing all of those things....there is a reason a majority of SB winners have top Qbs leading the. The history of the league shows this. Most are on great teams who have other talent but a large majority need a top QB. Even with a great defense, etc if Schaub is playing elite level teams, he has issues and that is a major ? He is a smart guy that fits in a system like Houston's perfectly but I think his limitations put a ceiling on their chances. JMO

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

As far as a QB needing all of those things....there is a reason a majority of SB winners have top Qbs leading the. The history of the league shows this. Most are on great teams who have other talent but a large majority need a top QB.

& 6 weeks ago, Joe Flacco wasn't a "great" QB. Matt Ryan was far from it. The opinion of those two QBs wouldn't have changed if their run games & defenses didn't show up.

Matt's run game & defense didn't show up.

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Even with a great defense, etc if Schaub is playing elite level teams, he has issues and that is a major ? He is a smart guy that fits in a system like Houston's perfectly but I think his limitations put a ceiling on their chances. JMO

& that's fine. I understand the questions. Like I said, I've been criticizing Schaub for years, but this year it's gotten ridiculous & I think people are going over board exaggerating some of his weaknesses.

If the foot is an issue, I can understand but I'm not seeing any evidence that his foot is the problem & if it were, I don't see him playing in the Pro Bowl, especially not as much as he did.

If the defense played at a high level & the offensive line/running game played at a high level & Matt Schaub played like he did... I would agree that Matt has to go, that Matt can't get it done.

Not being able to beat the Patriots in the regular season & a virtual repeat of that game in the post season tells us our problems are way deeper than Matt Schaub.

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

The Ravens lost 4 of their last 5.

What I mean was those teams were finally healthy heading into the playoffs, on an upward trend. Wins and Losses don't always fully represent a team's performance.

Say all you guys want about systems, but the fact of the matter is Schaub has very sub-par arm strength with about average accuracy. Well below average mobility, average decision making. Zero charisma. Rarely breaks tackles. Maybe slightly above average throwing on the run (again, to wide open receivers in a system that caters to that)

At best, he is mediocre. Maybe we can win a SB with a mediocre QB. But Mediocre QBs don't win more than 1 super bowl, that is a fact.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

& 6 weeks ago, Joe Flacco wasn't a "great" QB. Matt Ryan was far from it. The opinion of those two QBs wouldn't have changed if their run games & defenses didn't show up.

Matt's run game & defense didn't show up.




& that's fine. I understand the questions. Like I said, I've been criticizing Schaub for years, but this year it's gotten ridiculous & I think people are going over board exaggerating some of his weaknesses.

If the foot is an issue, I can understand but I'm not seeing any evidence that his foot is the problem & if it were, I don't see him playing in the Pro Bowl, especially not as much as he did.

If the defense played at a high level & the offensive line/running game played at a high level & Matt Schaub played like he did... I would agree that Matt has to go, that Matt can't get it done.

Not being able to beat the Patriots in the regular season & a virtual repeat of that game in the post season tells us our problems are way deeper than Matt Schaub.

Ryan had a Pro Bowl year and was playing well for a large part of the year. 32 TDs, 14 ints, 4719 yards and a 99 rating isn't shabby. 5th rated passer in the league. They were a #1 seed. He had some bad games but overall a damn good year.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

What I mean was those teams were finally healthy heading into the playoffs, on an upward trend. Wins and Losses don't always fully represent a team's performance.

Say all you guys want about systems, but the fact of the matter is Schaub has very sub-par arm strength with about average accuracy. Well below average mobility, average decision making. Zero charisma. Rarely breaks tackles. Maybe slightly above average throwing on the run (again, to wide open receivers in a system that caters to that)

At best, he is mediocre. Maybe we can win a SB with a mediocre QB. But Mediocre QBs don't win more than 1 super bowl, that is a fact.

Well see. Mediocre QBs don't normally turn in 5 years of the numbers Matt has put up, even in this system. Yes, his performance in the big games is the only real question here & we'll see how that goes in the future.

All that arm strength & accuracy stuff just doesn't compute with what he has done in this league. So I just don't conform to that line of criticism. Questioning his leadership, his toughness, his metal..... I can understand. Those are the only areas where he's not shown to be "elite"

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Schaub had a Pro Bowl year and was playing well for a large part of the year. 22 TDs, 12 ints, 4008 yards and a 90 rating isn't shabby. 9th rated passer in the league. They were a #1 seed. He had some bad games but overall a damn good year.

Fixed it for ya.

[bOODRO87]

Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy

FFS Please tell me you're joking?

We did probably the worst thing we could have going into the playoffs. Two chances to clinch HFA and couldn't do it. Nothing to smile about at all.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Well see. Mediocre QBs don't normally turn in 5 years of the numbers Matt has put up, even in this system. Yes, his performance in the big games is the only real question here & we'll see how that goes in the future.

All that arm strength & accuracy stuff just doesn't compute with what he has done in this league. So I just don't conform to that line of criticism. Questioning his leadership, his toughness, his metal..... I can understand. Those are the only areas where he's not shown to be "elite"

Schaub being an elite QB is nonsense. Or even close to being "elite". He's a better than average guy and if you like average, you'll love Schaub.

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

All that arm strength & accuracy stuff just doesn't compute with what he has done in this league. So I just don't conform to that line of criticism. Questioning his leadership, his toughness, his metal..... I can understand. Those are the only areas where he's not shown to be "elite"

So if his arm strength is "elite" then he is in the top, say, 1/6th of the league in that category? So top 5 or 6? No chance. In no particular order, some QBs who have significantly better arm strength than Schaub (since there is no definitive metric for arm strength, lets just use the old "eye test") : Rodgers, Brady, Flacco, both Mannings, Brees, Cutler, Luck, RG3, Vick, Big Ben, Romo, Stafford, Freeman, Kaepernick, JaMarcus Russell (lol)...you get the point.

Just watch those players throw the deep ball, or short bullets. Then watch Schaub. If you actually think Schaub has "elite" arm strength, idk what to say. Having completions to a receiver that is wide-open for 40 yards, on an underthrown ball, doesn't mean you have good arm strength.

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Schaub being an elite QB is nonsense. Or even close to being "elite". He's a better than average guy and if you like average, you'll love Schaub.

I disagree with him being above average. 32 starting QBs in the NFL, can you say you would rather have Schaub on your team for the future than 16 of them? He's 31 years old. Right now he may be average, but look at other QBs.

Rodgers (no debate)
Brady " "
Peyton " "
Brees " "
Eli " "
Big Ben " "
Matt Ryan " "
Andrew Luck - already better
Russell Wilson - arguably already better
RGIII - " "
Kaepernick - I think he's better
Romo - hate him, but he makes throws Schaub could only dream of.
Jay Cutler - certainly better physically. Had a horrible system, may be a douche, but I'd take him over Schaub.
Rivers - bad year this yr, but has had a better career than Schaub
Freeman - much more potential than Schaub.

That's 15 that I would definitely rather have on my team than Schaub. Maybe you can argue one or two of those, but Schaub is at best Mediocre.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

Having completions to a receiver that is wide-open for 40 yards, on an underthrown ball, doesn't mean you have good arm strength.

No, he doesn't have elite arm strength, or elite mobility. Didn't mean to say that (I see where I did, just didn't mean to).

He's produced at an elite level, so arm strength & mobility is not an issue. He's found a way to make what he's got work for him.

He hasn't produced as much in the win column, but that's changing. He hasn't produced in the post season like the elites... but I think that will be changing in the near future as well.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

I disagree with him being above average. 32 starting QBs in the NFL, can you say you would rather have Schaub on your team for the future than 16 of them? He's 31 years old. Right now he may be average, but look at other QBs.

Rodgers (no debate)
Brady " "
Peyton " "
Brees " "
Eli " "
Big Ben " "
Matt Ryan " "
Andrew Luck - already better
Russell Wilson - arguably already better
RGIII - " "
Kaepernick - I think he's better
Romo - hate him, but he makes throws Schaub could only dream of.
Jay Cutler - certainly better physically. Had a horrible system, may be a douche, but I'd take him over Schaub.
Rivers - bad year this yr, but has had a better career than Schaub
Freeman - much more potential than Schaub.

That's 15 that I would definitely rather have on my team than Schaub. Maybe you can argue one or two of those, but Schaub is at best Mediocre.

We're pretty much saying the same thing. Mediocre is average. Just because there are 15 good to plus QB's in the NFL doesn't mean that Schaub is an awful QB.....I just call him above average as in he's really not all that.

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

He hasn't produced as much in the win column, but that's changing. He hasn't produced in the post season like the elites... but I think that will be changing in the near future as well.

I hope you are right, and if he turns in a flacco-esque performance I will be the first to credit you.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

Eli " "
Big Ben " "
Matt Ryan " "

Matt belongs in this group.

Originally Posted by Yesterday

Andrew Luck - already better
Russell Wilson - arguably already better
RGIII - " "
Kaepernick - I think he's better
Romo - hate him, but he makes throws Schaub could only dream of.
Jay Cutler - certainly better physically. Had a horrible system, may be a douche, but I'd take him over Schaub.
Rivers - bad year this yr, but has had a better career than Schaub
Freeman - much more potential than Schaub.

That's 15 that I would definitely rather have on my team than Schaub. Maybe you can argue one or two of those, but Schaub is at best Mediocre.

That's just silly. Take all of those guys, put them here in this system & there's no guarantee they will have a 5 year stretch comparable to what Schaub had.

It's a toss up & a gamble with each & every one of them. Physically, yeah, they're all more gifted than Schaub, but Romo, Cutler, Rivers, & Freeman have already shown not to have the snap Schaub has between the ears. Each one of those guys have had teams as talented as Schaub, only Rivers has achieved more.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Fixed it for ya.

What was there to fix?

You stated Ryan had a bad year and was far from a great QB. You were wrong. Stop just throwing out whatever and seeing if it sticks. 10 more TDs with only 2 more ints.

So Schaub was farther down the list. Right? What does that prove? It proves that his second half was really worse than it seems and that he has trouble with his arm and moving in the pocket. There is nothing really to argue. Flacco > Schaub. Ryan > Schaub right now. Not sure what your arguing. Players going up and players going down the last 2 years.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Matt belongs in this group.



That's just silly. Take all of those guys, put them here in this system & there's no guarantee they will have a 5 year stretch comparable to what Schaub had.

It's a toss up & a gamble with each & every one of them. Physically, yeah, they're all more gifted than Schaub, but Romo, Cutler, Rivers, & Freeman have already shown not to have the snap Schaub has between the ears. Each one of those guys have had teams as talented as Schaub, only Rivers has achieved more.

Shaub hasn't won jack squat in 5 years. Garbage time stats or not.

[Luv_ya_blue]

Bottom line for me is this...

Schaub can't make the throws that the far greater majority of NFL caliber QBs can. He's not accurate and has a noodle arm. He wouldn't have 1/2 the stats that he does on any given season if his WRs didn't pull rabbits out of the hat to make the catch. And NO, I don't think that the same can be said for other QBs as a general rule.

Schaub is gonna make a speedy check-down and if for some ungodly reason he's flushed from the pocket, he's looking to unload the ball and makes me nervous because he often barely has the arm strength to get the ball out of bounds.

As to the nature of the gripe that the defense & offense had problems as a whole as well...

ON THE SEASON:
Total Offense (YPG):
49ers
Falcons
Patriots
Seahawks
Texans

Passing (YPG):
Patriots
Falcons
Texans
Ravens
Broncos

Rushing (YPG):
49ers
Seahawks
Vikings
Colts
Ravens

Total Defense (YPG):
Seahawks
Vikings
Texans
Redskins
Patriots

Passing (YPG):
Redskins
Seahawks
Packers
Texans
Vikings

Rushing (YPG):
Vikings
49ers
Texans
Patriots
Seahawks

There's no doubt that we went into the postseason as cold as a cucumber...but that's just an excuse. All of the intangibles were there. No since crying over spilled milk at this juncture--but it doesn't change the fact that there are a whole boatload of us that don't believe that Schaubie baby and Wary Gary are gonna lead us to the promised land.