All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

[HOU-TEX]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Flacco in the playoffs....11 TDs, 0 interceptions and a 124.0 QB rating in the Super Bowl. Give me a break. He is WAY better than Schaub. Once they got rid of Cam Cameron and let him play if kind of ball he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 2 ints. He hadn't thrown an int since December 16th.

I'm not sure anyone's comparing the two anymore. At least not with a straight face. I'd easily take either QB from last night over Schaub

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Flacco in the playoffs....11 TDs, 0 interceptions and a 124.0 QB rating in the Super Bowl. Give me a break. He is WAY better than Schaub. Once they got rid of Cam Cameron and let him play if kind of ball he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 2 ints. He hadn't thrown an int since December 16th.

In the play-offs... yeah. I'll give him that. But if he can make that kind of jump in the play-offs, there's no reason to think Matt can't. Again, the same things being said about Matt was said about Flacco just 6 weeks ago & this is after Flacco had a great play-off run last season.

Matt wasn't great in the play offs this season. I understand that. Matt wasn't great in the month of December.... I understand that. What I don't agree with, is the idea that it can't be fixed.

Just an aside, I didn't want to do this, posting stuff I find on another board that isn't related to the Texans, but the situation is similar:

Originally Posted by Sweft;

Ok, so answer this.

If Brady had QB'd that game, how many times would he have been sacked?

The Ravens O may not be built to Brady's strength, and it is fit to Flaccos, but it doesn't change the fact that under pressure, Brady turns into a girl and Flacco finds a way to make a play.

Doesn't that sound silly? Brady isn't as mobile as Flacco. Brady doesn't have the big arm that Flacco does... But doesn't that sound silly?

This is an emotional game, I get it. But sometimes I think the emotions get in the way of rational thinking. Matt Schaub has regularly been a better QB than Joe Flacco. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't be a better QB than Flacco in 2013 between the months of September & December.

We don't need to get a new QB, we need to get the QB we have to play better in December & January.

Why didn't Brady play well in the AFC Championship game? Was it because he can't extend plays or doesn't have a rocket laser arm?

[HTown2ATX]

Wait....I just happened to click to see last couple posts and it appears some people are saying Schaub is somehow in Flacco's class??.....Or they'd rather keep Schaub over Flacco if given the chance? Wow

I assume there must be sarcasm here, maybe I need to go back and read some more.

This is going to be a loooooong off season between the care bear's and realists. Ugh......still tired from last night...for now, I'll just avoid this mess...

Also saying that Joe only plays good in the playoffs....ugh....isn't....isn't that what counts? I'm confused..

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX

I'm not sure anyone's comparing the two anymore. At least not with a straight face. I'd easily take either QB from last night over Schaub

Right. I'd take both over a majority in the league right now...especially Kaepernick. Like him alot

Originally Posted by Fiddler

In the play-offs... yeah. I'll give him that. But if he can make that kind of jump in the play-offs, there's no reason to think Matt can't. Again, the same things being said about Matt was said about Flacco just 6 weeks ago & this is after Flacco had a great play-off run last season.

Matt wasn't great in the play offs this season. I understand that. Matt wasn't great in the month of December.... I understand that. What I don't agree with, is the idea that it can't be fixed.

Just an aside, I didn't want to do this, posting stuff I find on another board that isn't related to the Texans, but the situation is similar:Doesn't that sound silly? Brady isn't as mobile as Flacco. Brady doesn't have the big arm that Flacco does... But doesn't that sound silly?

This is an emotional game, I get it. But sometimes I think the emotions get in the way of rational thinking. Matt Schaub has regularly been a better QB than Joe Flacco. There is absolutely no reason to believe he won't be a better QB than Flacco in 2013 between the months of September & December.

We don't need to get a new QB, we need to get the QB we have to play better in December & January.

Why didn't Brady play well in the AFC Championship game? Was it because he can't extend plays or doesn't have a rocket laser arm?

I disagree with what your saying here. The jump Schaub has to make is being able to play well under duress and every year he has had trouble and happy feet with teams who apply heavy pressure. I honestly don't think that's something you fix. I think its an issue that keeps playing out. That is something Flacco's never had an issue with. No one questions that Schaub's passer rating bears out that he plays well within the Texans system when he has time and the play action is working. But when teams slow down the run and he is forced to handle pressure, its a bad situation. I look at Schaub and Flacco as 2 trains....one having it click and raising his game and one regressing as a season went on and having issues that have seemed to build over the seasons. BTW, the playoffs is what counts! Why do you think Aikman is in the HOF. The guys numbers never jumped out at you yardage wise, etc but come playoff time he was one of the most accurate passers in playoff history and he won games without making mistakes. Not putting Flacco there...just saying guys can make careers in the post season.

[Yesterday]

First things first, Matt Schaub doesn't have the physical ability of either QB last night. Not even close. Arm strength - Schaub could NOT have made about 1/2 of the throws Flacco did (hail mary to Jacoby, 3rd down to Boldin). Flacco's arm strength off of his back foot is stronger than Matt's when he's on balance.
Same with Kaepernick - his arm strength and accuracy have already exceeded Schaubs.

The most disheartening thing is that even Flacco has a significantly better ability to extend plays than Schaub. When the pressure is on Matt, he goes into turtle mode or throws the ball away.

It's obvious that if we are ever going to win a SB, we need THE best D in the NFL (ala '02 Bucs, 00 Ravens). And we need a Running game so fierce that our play action WRs are WIDE open.

[Yesterday]

And another thing - Matt Schaub did no better than TJ Yates in the playoffs. Schaub is a below average QB in the NFL (I can easily name 16 better than him). It doesn't take an expert to notice that his throws don't have the zip of the top guys.

Now, if only we had drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Travis Johnson...

[Bulls on Parade]

With the talent the Texans have on offense (7 pro bowlers) and on defense (3 pro bowlers -- including a healthy Cushing), there is no reason why this team can't reach the Super Bowl in 2014. We have to stay healthy and clinch the 1st seed.

But if we have home field in the playoffs I believe we'll beat anybody.... Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, whoever. It's a waste of time to be comparing Schaub to Flacco because I believe we would spank the Ravens if we played them. Our defense dominated Flacco and the Ravens offense the last two games we played them -- 2012 regular season in Houston and the 2011 playoffs at Baltimore.

I'm pumped up and excited for the 2013 season to start in September.

[Bulls on Parade]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

It's obvious that if we are ever going to win a SB, we need THE best D in the NFL (ala '02 Bucs, 00 Ravens). And we need a Running game so fierce that our play action WRs are WIDE open.

The good news: That's exactly what I expect to have in 2013. We'll have a healthy Foster and Tate tandem - arguably the best in the league just two years ago. Our defense will be top three again as well.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Right. I'd take both over a majority in the league right now...especially Kaepernick. Like him alot



I disagree with what your saying here. The jump Schaub has to make is being able to play well under duress and every year he has had trouble and happy feet with teams who apply heavy pressure. I honestly don't think that's something you fix. I think its an issue that keeps playing out. That is something Flacco's never had an issue with.

Then I must be in bizarro land because I'm sure we said Flacco folds under pressure & our game plan was to pressure him into making mistakes. Then that's exactly what happened when we spanked them in the regular season.

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

No one questions that Schaub's passer rating bears out that he plays well within the Texans system when he has time and the play action is working. But when teams slow down the run and he is forced to handle pressure, its a bad situation. I look at Schaub and Flacco as 2 trains....one having it click and raising his game and one regressing as a season went on and having issues that have seemed to build over the seasons.

They both played poor down the stretch. They fired their offensive coordinator because it got so bad. They lost four of their last 5. & Flacco didn't look great in but maybe the last two.

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

BTW, the playoffs is what counts! Why do you think Aikman is in the HOF. The guys numbers never jumped out at you yardage wise, etc but come playoff time he was one of the most accurate passers in playoff history and he won games without making mistakes. Not putting Flacco there...just saying guys can make careers in the post season.

I understand the play offs count. Matt didn't look as good as we hoped in his first play-offs. But neither did our defense, neither did our run game, neither did our pass protection.

Also look at Brady in the AFCCG. No run game, no defense, receivers couldn't get open, then they were dropping what balls he threw them. Do you think it's time for the Patriots to move on at the QB position?

Brady has been there, done that, so he gets a pass. Matt hasn't, & that's not all on him. We don't know what Matt will do when we get to the play offs next year, just like no one expected Ryan to play as well as he did, no one expected Flacco to play as well as he did.

Matt wasn't the answer in Foxboro for us, but he wasn't the biggest problem.

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade

With the talent the Texans have on offense (7 pro bowlers) and on defense (3 pro bowlers -- including a healthy Cushing), there is no reason why this team can't reach the Super Bowl in 2014. We have to stay healthy and clinch the 1st seed.

But if we have home field in the playoffs I believe we'll beat anybody....

I agree, but this is also a big area of concern...WHY do we have to have home field? Ravens did it on the road this year, Giants last year...our team needs to develop the mental toughness to win on the road in big games. That starts with Kubiak and Schaub

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

I understand the play offs count. Matt didn't look as good as we hoped in his first play-offs. But neither did our defense, neither did our run game, neither did our pass protection.

Matt wasn't the answer in Foxboro for us, but he wasn't the biggest problem.

But the NFL is evolving in a direction where a team's running game and pass protection are directly correlated with the QB. The ability to audible, slide protection, etc. Teams know that Schaub can't make certain throws, which allows them to focus their defense on the running game. They also know that Schaub hasn't proven that he can be successful when the D knows that it will be a pass. In addition, his complete lack of pocket presence and ability to extend plays allows defenses to tailor their coverages.

Overall, Schaub is just a one trick pony. He is, in my opinion, the least athletic starting QB in the NFL in a league driven by athleticism.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

But the NFL is evolving in a direction where a team's running game and pass protection are directly correlated with the QB. The ability to audible, slide protection, etc. Teams know that Schaub can't make certain throws, which allows them to focus their defense on the running game. They also know that Schaub hasn't proven that he can be successful when the D knows that it will be a pass. In addition, his complete lack of pocket presence and ability to extend plays allows defenses to tailor their coverages.

Overall, Schaub is just a one trick pony. He is, in my opinion, the least athletic starting QB in the NFL in a league driven by athleticism.

Schaub's got his issues, but the things you describe are not them. He looked fine in 2009 when everyone knew we were going to be throwing the ball. He looked fine vs the Jags & the Lions when everyone knew we were going to be throwing the ball.

His pocket awareness is definitely not an issue, I don't know what you're talking about there.

I've always had issues with his ability to make plays happen off schedule. He isn't successful as often as I'd like for him to be & I've criticized him for giving up on plays too early, too often.

There does appear to be a problem with bright lights & high stakes. I'm just not convinced that he can not step up in those situations. I also don't believe the level of assistance needed from the rest of the team is as high as "we" are saying now.

[dream_team]

Originally Posted by Bulls on Parade

With the talent the Texans have on offense (7 pro bowlers) and on defense (3 pro bowlers -- including a healthy Cushing), there is no reason why this team can't reach the Super Bowl in 2014. We have to stay healthy and clinch the 1st seed.

But if we have home field in the playoffs I believe we'll beat anybody.... Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, whoever. It's a waste of time to be comparing Schaub to Flacco because I believe we would spank the Ravens if we played them. Our defense dominated Flacco and the Ravens offense the last two games we played them -- 2012 regular season in Houston and the 2011 playoffs at Baltimore.

I'm pumped up and excited for the 2013 season to start in September.

I like your optimism. We need more of it in here.

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

His pocket awareness is definitely not an issue, I don't know what you're talking about there.

What I'm referring to is his inability to exit the pocket, sidestep, go forward, etc. Sure, he's mighty good at throwing the ball away the second a defender gets close and not taking sacks. But he doesn't have the eyes in the back of his head that a Manning or Big Ben does.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

What I'm referring to is his inability to exit the pocket, sidestep, go forward, etc. Sure, he's mighty good at throwing the ball away the second a defender gets close and not taking sacks. But he doesn't have the eyes in the back of his head that a Manning or Big Ben does.

He does plenty of sidestepping, stepping up.... avoiding rushers while staying in the pocket. He can't make a 6 second ordeal of it like those guys, but usually he can find an open guy in that time.

Outside the pocket... yeah, it's time to move on to the next play.

But with what Matt Schaub brings to the table, we can win games. We've done it. When there's no running game, we can win games. We've done it. When the defense isn't bringing it, we can win games. We've done it.

We need all them to step up when the bright lights come on. We need all of them to step up in December.

I don't see Baltimore winning when they get one dimensional, or when their defense has a bad day. I don't see the Patriots winning in the play offs when they get one dimensional, or when their defense has an off day. We are not special in that respect.

Go to the Patriots forum & read all the threads from the last two weeks. Believe it or not, it's awful similar to what we're saying here & they are just as far off & knee jerk as we are here.

[HoustonFrog]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Then I must be in bizarro land because I'm sure we said Flacco folds under pressure & our game plan was to pressure him into making mistakes. Then that's exactly what happened when we spanked them in the regular season.




They both played poor down the stretch. They fired their offensive coordinator because it got so bad. They lost four of their last 5. & Flacco didn't look great in but maybe the last two.



I understand the play offs count. Matt didn't look as good as we hoped in his first play-offs. But neither did our defense, neither did our run game, neither did our pass protection.

Also look at Brady in the AFCCG. No run game, no defense, receivers couldn't get open, then they were dropping what balls he threw them. Do you think it's time for the Patriots to move on at the QB position?

Brady has been there, done that, so he gets a pass. Matt hasn't, & that's not all on him. We don't know what Matt will do when we get to the play offs next year, just like no one expected Ryan to play as well as he did, no one expected Flacco to play as well as he did.

Matt wasn't the answer in Foxboro for us, but he wasn't the biggest problem.

You are so all over the place.

No, they don't replace Brady because he is an all time great that wins every year and pretty much doesn't have any of the issues with arm strength and pocket ability that Schaub has. How is that not recognizable. You making that leap is just nonsense. It's been going on for more than just this year.

Flacco wasn't playing bad as much as their coordinator wasn't putting he or Rice in a position to use their strengths. Once that happened he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int. Schaub is always going to be in this system and when the system clicks he is fine. But his arm and pocket awareness under pressure will always be a question. Those just don't come out of the blue after 7 years or so. Again, expecting him to click for a full year means he has to have max protection and a great running game EVERY game. I never said get rid of him. I just said its foolish to compare Schaub to Flacco at this point. Two trains.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

I agree, but this is also a big area of concern...WHY do we have to have home field? Ravens did it on the road this year, Giants last year...our team needs to develop the mental toughness to win on the road in big games. That starts with Kubiak and Schaub

That's the grail right there. The mentality to win regardless of the environment. Everyone wants that and almost no one ever achieves it. The idea is I think that if you reach that point then you probably end up with home field advantage simply as a result of being able to go into other teams stadiums and win during the regular season.

[Yesterday]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

That's the grail right there. The mentality to win regardless of the environment. Everyone wants that and almost no one ever achieves it. The idea is I think that if you reach that point then you probably end up with home field advantage simply as a result of being able to go into other teams stadiums and win during the regular season.

Giants reached that point and haven't had home field. Same w/ Ravens. But those teams were on fire going into the playoffs when they won. We were limping. That is the biggest factor in my opinion; our team peaked in the Baltimore game (losing Cush didn't help, and neither did the complete breakdown of our offense)

[Surreal McCoy]

Originally Posted by Yesterday

Giants reached that point and haven't had home field. Same w/ Ravens. But those teams were on fire going into the playoffs when they won. We were limping. That is the biggest factor in my opinion; our team peaked in the Baltimore game (losing Cush didn't help, and neither did the complete breakdown of our offense)

FFS Please tell me you're joking?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

You are so all over the place.

No, they don't replace Brady because he is an all time great that wins every year and pretty much doesn't have any of the issues with arm strength and pocket ability that Schaub has. How is that not recognizable. You making that leap is just nonsense. It's been going on for more than just this year.

For years, Matt has been one of the better QBs in the league, despite his limitations & Tom Brady looked just as bad as Schaub in the AFC Championship game. A lot of what we're saying about Schaub right now, is being said about Brady on Patsfan, right now. They are talking about not throwing downfield, they are talking about not being able to make plays outside of the pocket.

I'm not saying that Matt is in the same league with Brady. I understand the anger if that's what you're thinking I'm saying. I am saying Brady couldn't carry his team to a victory in the play offs playing play off competition. He needed his defense to play better. He needed his pass protection to play better. He needed his receivers & the run game to be better than what it was.

Collin Kaepernick couldn't get it done without his defense playing like a top 5 defense for 60 minutes.

Flacco wouldn't be the Super Bowl MVP if his defense hadn't shown up or his running game wasn't there, or if his receivers dropped as many balls as Brady's receivers.

A QB can win a game in the regular season. A QB could win one of those two games we lost down the stretch.... Minny & Indy. But a QB isn't going to carry a team to a Super Bowl Championship. Peyton hasn't done it. McNabb couldn't do it. Elway couldn't do it. It's never happened before & it won't happen for Matt Schaub.

Originally Posted by HoustonFrog

Flacco wasn't playing bad as much as their coordinator wasn't putting he or Rice in a position to use their strengths. Once that happened he was 5-2 with 15 TDs and 1 int. Schaub is always going to be in this system and when the system clicks he is fine. But his arm and pocket awareness under pressure will always be a question. Those just don't come out of the blue after 7 years or so. Again, expecting him to click for a full year means he has to have max protection and a great running game EVERY game. I never said get rid of him. I just said its foolish to compare Schaub to Flacco at this point. Two trains.

The coordinator was fired because he wasn't using Ray Rice enough. Flacco never had a lack of opportunity to throw the ball downfield. The biggest thing that attributed to Flacco's play off performance was probably the rearranging of the OL.