Bad day to be a Browns fan

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Not really. The Browns were allowed to relocate and a settlement ensued in which Cleveland kept the history and were guaranteed a new team. The Ravens were not treated as an expansion team. It was a relocation with some negotiations on details. If it was a "new team" you wouldn't have carried a roster over and would have been treated like an expansion team.

"Subsequent legal actions saw a unique compromise that would later set a precedent in American professional sports: Modell would be able to retain the Browns' existing player and staff contracts, but his team officially would be an entirely new franchise in Baltimore, later named the Baltimore Ravens. Meanwhile, the Browns' name, history, and archives would stay in Cleveland, and a new Browns team would begin play in 1999 after a nominal three-year period of "deactivation".

This article explains alot of what Art Modell faced back then--salaray cap wasn't administrated the same as it is now....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...86/2/index.htm

[welsh texan]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

Carpet bagging owners suck. That's just an incontrovertible fact. The thing I can't really let go about Baltimore (and to a lesser extent St Louis) is that they had it done to them and lost a team, then turned around and did it to someone else.

Baltimore took the Browns from Cleveland just like St. Louis took the Rams from Los Angeles. Sure the owners chose to make the moves and sure you can quibble about the details but either way those people got screwed and then knowing full well what that felt like they screwed someone else in exactly the same way.

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this, in the NFL the fans don't get a say, they don't get to choose who the owners choose to screw or how the owners choose to screw them. Are you really going to tell me that had Houston re-a aquired a team from another city instead of via expansion you'd have refused to support them? I'm guessing if you love football you'd likely be able to look beyond that and be glad to have it back in your hometown?

It's one thing to point out that its unfair, but to denigrate their fans for taking the hand they've been dealt is blinkered and unfair.

Sorry Herv, but I just ain't buying what your selling on this issue.

[Norg]

on paper the browns got some playmakers a very good team but they never show it on sunday maybe one day

i think they will be better this year u cant be bad forever sooner or later all thoes high draft picks will add up to at least a 9-7 record

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

"Subsequent legal actions saw a unique compromise that would later set a precedent in American professional sports: Modell would be able to retain the Browns' existing player and staff contracts, but his team officially would be an entirely new franchise in Baltimore, later named the Baltimore Ravens. Meanwhile, the Browns' name, history, and archives would stay in Cleveland, and a new Browns team would begin play in 1999 after a nominal three-year period of "deactivation".

This article explains alot of what Art Modell faced back then--salaray cap wasn't administrated the same as it is now....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...86/2/index.htm

Keep repeating it and mistaking articles all you want. The Ravens were not an expansion franchise. There was no expansion draft for them. They took all their players and coaches with them. It is idiocy to say they were an entirely new franchise. You want to prove your point? - show where every player became a free agent, came in and voluntarily signed new contracts (with identical terms) with the new team. Didn't happen. You're wrong.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this, in the NFL the fans don't get a say, they don't get to choose who the owners choose to screw or how the owners choose to screw them. Are you really going to tell me that had Houston re-a aquired a team from another city instead of via expansion you'd have refused to support them? I'm guessing if you love football you'd likely be able to look beyond that and be glad to have it back in your hometown?

It's one thing to point out that its unfair, but to denigrate their fans for taking the hand they've been dealt is blinkered and unfair.

Sorry Herv, but I just ain't buying what your selling on this issue.

The ONLY way that Houston was going to get another NFL team was if someone with deep pockets stepped up and bought a brand new one. Fortunately we had that saint with Bob McNair, and even more fortunate, Los Angeles could not care less about getting a team.

I agree that fans have little say in any of this stuff (to an extent, as Houstonians did support building a new football stadium). But at the same time, some fans should not be trying to generate sympathy for themselves when they have absolutely no compassion for the fan base whose team their city just jacked.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Keep repeating it and mistaking articles all you want. The Ravens were not an expansion franchise. There was no expansion draft for them. They took all their players and coaches with them. It is idiocy to say they were an entirely new franchise. You want to prove your point? - show where every player became a free agent, came in and voluntarily signed new contracts (with identical terms) with the new team. Didn't happen. You're wrong.

Obviosly you didn't read what was written. "Subsequent legal actions saw a unique compromise that would later set a precedent in American professional sports: Modell would be able to retain the Browns' existing player and staff contracts, but his team officially would be an entirely new franchise in Baltimore..."



And the ro Football Hall Of Fame uses the term "Franchise Granted"....http://www.profootballhof.com/histor...&InfoTab=Facts

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

The ONLY way that Houston was going to get another NFL team was if someone with deep pockets stepped up and bought a brand new one. Fortunately we had that saint with Bob McNair, and even more fortunate, Los Angeles could not care less about getting a team.

I agree that fans have little say in any of this stuff (to an extent, as Houstonians did support building a new football stadium). But at the same time, some fans should not be trying to generate sympathy for themselves when they have absolutely no compassion for the fan base whose team their city just jacked.

You have no idea about that. Baltimore got passed over 2 times for expansion. Tagliabue even told us to build a museum with our money. Look at who has better fan support- Jacksonville with their covered up seats or Carolina with their fickle fan support. Every single Ravens game has been sold out since their started- every single one.

I didn't like the fact that Art came from cleveland and we could be accused of 'jacking someone's team' but I guess the fans Indy sure don't feel any symathy for us after they left in the middle of the night in 1984.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

Obviosly you didn't read what was written. "Subsequent legal actions saw a unique compromise that would later set a precedent in American professional sports: Modell would be able to retain the Browns' existing player and staff contracts, but his team officially would be an entirely new franchise in Baltimore..."



And the ro Football Hall Of Fame uses the term "Franchise Granted"....http://www.profootballhof.com/histor...&InfoTab=Facts

No matter how much you bold or increase font size you are brain dead if you think a team which comes in with a full roster is an "entirely new team." Plain and simple.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

You have no idea about that.

Please show me any details about a franchise that has moved since 1996, the point where Houston lost the Oilers.

What we Houstonians have an idea about is the NFL's agenda to continuously overlook Houston during the expansion process in order to give L.A. a team that they did not want. I'm sure that you can relate to that after being overlooked in the Carolina and Jacksonville expansions.

Baltimore got passed over 2 times for expansion. Tagliabue even told us to build a museum with our money. Look at who has better fan support- Jacksonville with their covered up seats or Carolina with their fickle fan support. Every single Ravens game has been sold out since their started- every single one.

I didn't like the fact that Art came from cleveland and we could be accused of 'jacking someone's team' but I guess the fans Indy sure don't feel any symathy for us after they left in the middle of the night in 1984.

I'm not trying to bust your balls for the Ravens move.

I'm just more surprised that you lack any compassion whatsoever for Cleveland. You don't have to regret getting a team, but at least agree that you know how they feel after experiencing the same thing as a city.

As far as Indy, they can suck an egg. Having Manning there glossed over the front-running bandwagon attitude of that fan base, IMHO.

[Specnatz]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

You have no idea about that. Baltimore got passed over 2 times for expansion. Tagliabue even told us to build a museum with our money. Look at who has better fan support- Jacksonville with their covered up seats or Carolina with their fickle fan support. Every single Ravens game has been sold out since their started- every single one.

I didn't like the fact that Art came from cleveland and we could be accused of 'jacking someone's team' but I guess the fans Indy sure don't feel any symathy for us after they left in the middle of the night in 1984.

Hell the NFL tried 6 ways to hell and back to not give Houston a team and to give to LA. But there was going to be no stadium funding for a new stadium or even upgrading that current ghetto bowl.

McNair had to increase his offer to make them even think about Houston, they even lengthen the dead-line for LA hoping some funding would happen. So yes we do have an idea.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

No matter how much you bold or increase font size you are brain dead if you think a team which comes in with a full roster is an "entirely new team." Plain and simple.

the quote would be more accurate if they said they would have fancy new clothes and logos on their helmets for the first time instead of calling them "a new team". From my pov, all they did was put a little lipstick on that pig and built the trough in Baltimore.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by welsh texan

I'm sorry but I just can't agree with this, in the NFL the fans don't get a say, they don't get to choose who the owners choose to screw or how the owners choose to screw them. Are you really going to tell me that had Houston re-a aquired a team from another city instead of via expansion you'd have refused to support them? I'm guessing if you love football you'd likely be able to look beyond that and be glad to have it back in your hometown?

It's one thing to point out that its unfair, but to denigrate their fans for taking the hand they've been dealt is blinkered and unfair.

Sorry Herv, but I just ain't buying what your selling on this issue.

I would not have supported a transplanted team. Believe that or not as you wish. I'm kind of very black and white when it comes to that. When the Oilers left I stopped watching football entirely except for the college game. I'm a fan of the NFL when Houston has a team. When Houston doesn't have a team then the NFL has nothing to offer me.

Maybe I'm odd that way but no, I wouldn't be interested in getting a team to follow like that.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

You have no idea about that. Baltimore got passed over 2 times for expansion. Tagliabue even told us to build a museum with our money. Look at who has better fan support- Jacksonville with their covered up seats or Carolina with their fickle fan support. Every single Ravens game has been sold out since their started- every single one.

I didn't like the fact that Art came from cleveland and we could be accused of 'jacking someone's team' but I guess the fans Indy sure don't feel any symathy for us after they left in the middle of the night in 1984.

If you are going to continue this incessant whining you should become a Patriots fan.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Old Oilers fans can relate. I will never like the Titans. NEVER.

Even after Bud kicks the bucket, we have a natural division rival. But the history of that franchise is what it is, and while it means nothing to the younger demographics, those of us that lived it feel how we feel. Emotional? Perhaps, but certainly not without logic.

The greatest Oiler, Earl Campbell, refused to be honored by the franchise in Nashville. That says it all for me.

Repped

Spot On,

Earl is a Texan 1st and foremost,

A true living Texas legend, for those of us that have been fortunate enough to have met him/watched him play and realized we were among greatness. I would like to say thanks Earl for being a once in a generation human being.

[fiasco west]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

As a Ravens fan, I don't feel sorry for Browns fans at all. They didn't have it as bad as Baltimore fans did when the Colts left.

Cmon man...not even a little bit? That's just wrong.

When is the last time the Browns made the playoffs? I mean their most exciting players in recent years are Peyton Hillis, Joshua Cribbs, and Derek Anderson? Was that his name?

[MEGA SWATT]

Originally Posted by Hookem Horns

Ravens going to another Super Bowl after that franchise just broke hearts while it was in Cleveland for all of those years.

To make matters worse their current franchise is worse than the old one was when it was in Cleveland.

You have to really feel for that fan base.

I can see that.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

No matter how much you bold or increase font size you are brain dead if you think a team which comes in with a full roster is an "entirely new team." Plain and simple.

Sorry you can't comprehend what is written

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Please show me any details about a franchise that has moved since 1996, the point where Houston lost the Oilers.

What we Houstonians have an idea about is the NFL's agenda to continuously overlook Houston during the expansion process in order to give L.A. a team that they did not want. I'm sure that you can relate to that after being overlooked in the Carolina and Jacksonville expansions.



I'm not trying to bust your balls for the Ravens move.

I'm just more surprised that you lack any compassion whatsoever for Cleveland. You don't have to regret getting a team, but at least agree that you know how they feel after experiencing the same thing as a city.

As far as Indy, they can suck an egg. Having Manning there glossed over the front-running bandwagon attitude of that fan base, IMHO.

Having Sympathy and feeling Empathy are two distinct different emotions.

I have sympathy for Cleveland; no empathy...they should have taken care of their team; not just the other teams

Modell's move set the precedence for all subsequent moves- Bud Adams took advantage of it and it was satisfying to beat them 3 times on the way to the Super Bowl in 2000.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by fiasco west

Cmon man...not even a little bit? That's just wrong.

When is the last time the Browns made the playoffs? I mean their most exciting players in recent years are Peyton Hillis, Joshua Cribbs, and Derek Anderson? Was that his name?

Empathy vs Sympathy

3 years to wait while the city builds a new stadium vs 12 years of being passed over despite having the best franchise package available.

Retaining you colors, records, history, name vs seeing it all (name, history, colors, records) move to another city while seeing guys that will never be worthy of being equated with legends set franchise records, team records, etc...

Browns made the playoffs in 2007 and lost. Their ineptitude in the front office and coaching staff is a direct result of the ownership- thats all on one person Randy Lerner.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Fred

If you are going to continue this incessant whining you should become a Patriots fan.

Not whining at all. explaining the facts.

And 70% of Pats fans are all Bandwagon fans that jumped on wen Brady took them to the playoffs.

Believe me, I have been up there pre-Brady- stadium was pretty empty.