Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

After JJo and Manning(two big FA signings), there's just no more room.

Other teams don't want to trade away the receivers they like.

The FAs on the market that was worth anything were too rich.

Which means that the good teams hit more than they miss on players or is it they know how to develop said players .

[76Texan]

And what other asset(s) did the Texans had that they could have parted with ?

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34

Al Davis said that you never turn down the chance to get someone who can put the ball in the endzone .

If you look at recent drafts , say 2005 and on , you'll see the only Playoff team that's sustained is New England . Why ... Brady and the hoody I guess .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft

They've made a ton of blunders in their off seasons as well. BB has been far from a genius that people make him out to be. Tom Brady is the biggest reason that their team shines. BB is not the anchor of that offense. TOm Brady is, and he's been highly successful with multiple OC's and different offenses. BB is the GM and the HC and he's been awful at acquiring offensive weapons in my eyes other then those TE's. Brady makes guys look a lot better honestly. BB has been horrible at finding a replacement for Randy Moss. He has failed with the likes of Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Branch and now Lloyd. I bashed all of those attempts when they first got them as I do root for the Patriots outside of the Texans. THe Patriots would have probably two more rings in the last 4 years if they would have had a wideout that could get consistent separation. That's exactly what killed them in yesterday's game.

Then when you look at their defense over the years, and they have barely even improved. That's all on Bellicheck. Brady's offense has carried that team as far as it can go all these years.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

And what other asset(s) did the Texans had that they could have parted with ?

Stop asking rhetorical questions 76Texan. We have a ton of assets or do you think this team is terrible all around?? I said we'd probably have to lose at another position, but that's just how things go if you have to make trades. I can't name a certain player, because it would all depend on what team you're trading with and what they might need. Then I could think of a player that we could afford to lose potentially to upgrade the WR position.

I wasn't thinking about players as much though. I was thinking more along the lines of draft picks. Draft picks are the most overrated things on a football team, because you never know which ones will not be any good half the time. At least with certain free agents, you know what you're getting and when you are in a window of winning a SB, sometimes you have to go out and get those proven players that will buy into what you already have that will make your team better right away. I don't like the idea of trying to upgrade the WR position in the draft right now, because it usually takes young WR's a few years to become really good in the NFL. We don't have that time right now. We need solid play makers right now that are ready to contribute.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34

Which means that the good teams hit more than they miss on players or is it they know how to develop said players .

There are different scenarios here, Earl.

There are teams that kinda suck for awhile to save up cap space to roll over so they can go after the FAs, like the Broncos for example.

Then you have the Colts that somehow got the top pick, some said Suck for Luck.

Same thing with the Redskins playing Cheapstakes like Grossman and Beck last year and then trade away the farm for RG III this year.

There are variables in each different scenario, but hopefully I brought up a few decent examples.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

They've made a ton of blunders in their off seasons as well. BB has been far from a genius that people make him out to be. Tom Brady is the biggest reason that their team shines. BB is not the anchor of that offense. TOm Brady is, and he's been highly successful with multiple OC's and different offenses. BB is the GM and the HC and he's been awful at acquiring offensive weapons in my eyes other then those TE's. Brady makes guys look a lot better honestly. BB has been horrible at finding a replacement for Randy Moss. He has failed with the likes of Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Branch and now Lloyd. I bashed all of those attempts when they first got them as I do root for the Patriots outside of the Texans. THe Patriots would have probably two more rings in the last 4 years if they would have had a wideout that could get consistent separation. That's exactly what killed them in yesterday's game.

Then when you look at their defense over the years, and they have barely even improved. That's all on Bellicheck. Brady's offense has carried that team as far as it can go all these years.

I think Ol' Bill doesn't use the unwritten rules and is willing to do whatever to win .

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Stop asking rhetorical questions 76Texan. We have a ton of assets or do you think this team is terrible all around?? I said we'd probably have to lose at another position, but that's just how things go if you have to make trades. I can't name a certain player, because it would all depend on what team you're trading with and what they might need. Then I could think of a player that we could afford to lose potentially to upgrade the WR position.

I wasn't thinking about players as much though. I was thinking more along the lines of draft picks. Draft picks are the most overrated things on a football team, because you never know which ones will not be any good half the time. At least with certain free agents, you know what you're getting and when you are in a window of winning a SB, sometimes you have to go out and get those proven players that will buy into what you already have that will make your team better right away. I don't like the idea of trying to upgrade the WR position in the draft right now, because it usually takes young WR's a few years to become really good in the NFL. We don't have that time right now. We need solid play makers right now that are ready to contribute.

I think rhetoric questions serve at least one purpose.

When you try to build a team, it doesn't make much sense to trade assets.
You don't gain anything because you don't have an abundance anywhere to make the trade works in a way to improve your team.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

They've made a ton of blunders in their off seasons as well. BB has been far from a genius that people make him out to be. Tom Brady is the biggest reason that their team shines. BB is not the anchor of that offense. TOm Brady is, and he's been highly successful with multiple OC's and different offenses. BB is the GM and the HC and he's been awful at acquiring offensive weapons in my eyes other then those TE's. Brady makes guys look a lot better honestly. BB has been horrible at finding a replacement for Randy Moss. He has failed with the likes of Brandon Tate, Chad Johnson, Branch and now Lloyd. I bashed all of those attempts when they first got them as I do root for the Patriots outside of the Texans. THe Patriots would have probably two more rings in the last 4 years if they would have had a wideout that could get consistent separation. That's exactly what killed them in yesterday's game.

Then when you look at their defense over the years, and they have barely even improved. That's all on Bellicheck. Brady's offense has carried that team as far as it can go all these years.

Right there Tex, I think you answer your own question ???

At least somewhat!?!

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

There are different scenarios here, Earl.

There are teams that kinda suck for awhile to save up cap space to roll over so they can go after the FAs, like the Broncos for example.

Then you have the Colts that somehow got the top pick, some said Suck for Luck.

Same thing with the Redskins playing Cheapstakes like Grossman and Beck last year and then trade away the farm for RG III this year.

There are variables in each different scenario, but hopefully I brought up a few decent examples.

I think you have to have a couple of key positions ( LT , sack artist , QB , shutdown CB , ) that you pay big for . The Texans got into trouble overpaying guys on losing teams who didn't fill the positions .

IMO ... Watt and Brown are cornerstones . Joseph maybe if he's healthy fits the bill . The rest is balancing and trying not to overpay guys who are just ... guys .

[76Texan]

Look at the Demecco trade. What did we get in return?

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34

I think you have to have a couple of key positions ( LT , sack artist , QB , shutdown CB , ) that you pay big for . The Texans got into trouble overpaying guys on losing teams who didn't fill the positions .

IMO ... Watt and Brown are cornerstones . Joseph maybe if he's healthy fits the bill . The rest is balancing and trying not to overpay guys who are just ... guys .

The Texans are among teams that didn't overload their top ten highest paid players.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Right there Tex, I think you answer your own question ???

At least somewhat!?!

How so? Please explain.


I don't like what the Patriots have done in free agency at all over the years?? They had that one amazing off season where they went out and got all these weapons and they almost had a perfect season. Since then they have done very little as far as getting solid free agents. BB has been extremely cheap and they haven't won a Sb since then. The only big move I thought they made that was a good cheap move was their attempt at Haynesworth as it didn't cost them a thing and it was such a low risk high reward move and it ended up not working. Getting their CB this season though, was a great move that helped them a lot and hopefully they'll resign him next season.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I think rhetoric questions serve at least one purpose.

When you try to build a team, it doesn't make much sense to trade assets.
You don't gain anything because you don't have an abundance anywhere to make the trade works in a way to improve your team.

That all depends on where you get better and where you get worse. Sometimes you may downgrade just a little at one position but upgrade a lot at another. It all depends on the depth that you have in your back ups or the ability to find another replacement somewhere else in the off season. You can't look at it in the little microscope that you are right now, and simply be close minded to making trades that can improve your team. You have to take risks sometimes.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

How so? Please explain.


I don't like what the Patriots have done in free agency at all over the years?? They had that one amazing off season where they went out and got all these weapons and they almost had a perfect season. Since then they have done very little as far as getting solid free agents. BB has been extremely cheap and they haven't won a Sb since then. The only big move I thought they made that was a good cheap move was their attempt at Haynesworth as it didn't cost them a thing and it was such a low risk high reward move and it ended up not working. Getting their CB this season though, was a great move that helped them a lot and hopefully they'll resign him next season.

Well, first of all, you have a Brady, and he agreed to restructure in order to bring in other players this year, and so that's what they did.

The next two years, the money will hit, and it will get a little harder for them to maneuver, especially with Welker.

Brady's cap figure will be about double Schaub's next year.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

That all depends on where you get better and where you get worse. Sometimes you may downgrade just a little at one position but upgrade a lot at another. It all depends on the depth that you have in your back ups or the ability to find another replacement somewhere else in the off season. You can't look at it in the little microscope that you are right now, and simply be close minded to making trades that can improve your team. You have to take risks sometimes.

Agree about taking risk.
But you can't take too many at the same time.

They took a flyer with a no-name Jacoby.
They tried to work through his mental lapses of judgment, including sleeping at the wheels. They didn't let him go until there was a personal safety threat to him.

They gave Holliday plenty of chances, but he didn't help himself with some bone head decisions on the field.
Even though I would have liked for them to be a little more patient, I really can't blame them.
Holliday had more than half a dozen blunders this year.
The risk/reward is really touch and go there.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Well, first of all, you have a Brady, and he agreed to restructure in order to bring in other players this year, and so that's what they did.

The next two years, the money will hit, and it will get a little harder for them to maneuver, especially with Welker.

Brady's cap figure will be about double Schaub's next year.

That isn't what they did though. They went out and got some really cheap fill ins. That isn't at all what I suggested. The Patriots are a perfect example that illustrates my point. It doesn't go against it. You're just trying to use them as some example as a team that allegedly did this and that it didn't work, but they didn't go out and get good quality. They went out and tried to get whatever cheap fix they could without really addressing the need.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Agree about taking risk.
But you can't take too many at the same time.

They took a flyer with a no-name Jacoby.
They tried to work through his mental lapses of judgment, including sleeping at the wheels. They didn't let him go until there was a personal safety threat to him.

They gave Holliday plenty of chances, but he didn't help himself with some bone head decisions on the field.
Even though I would have liked for them to be a little more patient, I really can't blame them.
Holliday had more than half a dozen blunders this year.
The risk/reward is really touch and go there.

The Texans and the Patriots both have had Steve Smith sitting right there just waiting to get off of the Panthers for years. The team has been frustrated with him, he's been frustrated with the team, and so on. The guy has been chained to all these garbage QB's his whole career, and he would have been a great asset to us and the Patriots. There have been a few others, but Steve Smith was a really solid player that could have been had on the cheap more then once. At one point the asking price was even like a 3rd rounder or something like that. The Texans and the Pats were both silly for not going after that guy, and the results have pretty much proven that. I'm not saying that Smith would have turned either team into a SB winner, but he would have helped out a whole lot.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

That isn't what they did though. They went out and got some really cheap fill ins. That isn't at all what I suggested. The Patriots are a perfect example that illustrates my point. It doesn't go against it. You're just trying to use them as some example as a team that allegedly did this and that it didn't work, but they didn't go out and get good quality. They went out and tried to get whatever cheap fix they could without really addressing the need.

Yes and no.

Scott, Lloyd, and Gregory may not be high paying FAs, and neither was Alib.

Without Brady's restructuring, they can't afford most of those acquisitions.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

The Texans and the Patriots both have had Steve Smith sitting right there just waiting to get off of the Panthers for years. The team has been frustrated with him, he's been frustrated with the team, and so on. The guy has been chained to all these garbage QB's his whole career, and he would have been a great asset to us and the Patriots. There have been a few others, but Steve Smith was a really solid player that could have been had on the cheap more then once. At one point the asking price was even like a 3rd rounder or something like that. The Texans and the Pats were both silly for not going after that guy, and the results have pretty much proven that. I'm not saying that Smith would have turned either team into a SB winner, but he would have helped out a whole lot.

Tex, you're talking about a guy who signed a 4-yr contract for $37.5M

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Yes and no.

Scott, Lloyd, and Gregory may not be high paying FAs, and neither was Alib.

Without Brady's restructuring, they can't afford most of those acquisitions.

I see what you are saying now about the restructuring.


I'm not sure what their cap is directly, but it's been years since they've gone out and gotten some really good free agents. Alib they got on the cheap, but that was a great move with very little risk. I'll give it to the Patriots that all of their moves have very little risk involved. They do great there, but they're always trying to get guys who they hope can get them great results for cheap money. That will happen every now and then, but not the majority of the time. Chad Johnson and Bandon Lloyd were really bad acquisitions and it totally cost them the SB last season, because they couldn't free up the middle of the field when they didn't have a wideout that could get open or stretch the field. Happened yesterday as well. Lloyd was a merely average receiver that over achieved because he played with Brady, but he struggled all season long to get separation consistently.