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Old 01-20-2013   #41
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More than track speed, the Texans need someone with run after catch ability. Defenses are blitzing Schaub on 3rd down, and he has to get the ball out quickly. He cannot buy time in the pocket or rollout.

The Texans should concentrate on letting a receiver that is strong and quick enough to get separation in press coverage, then break a tackle and create havoc in the secondary. A Pierre Garcon type of WR. Cordarrelle Patterson might be the best example in this draft class. Not a polished downfield WR, but someone who can make a play with the ball in his hands.
What sucks is I was believing Posey had a good chance at becoming that YAC guy. He's not afraid to take a hit and has good balance. He also has the strength to break some arm tackles. It's unfortunate.
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Old 01-20-2013   #42
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I think this was the first year the texans didn't have a top six guy in yac in about 5 years.
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Old 01-20-2013   #43
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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I think this was the first year the texans didn't have a top six guy in yac in about 5 years.
At WR? Are you talking total yards, or average?
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Old 01-20-2013   #44
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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What sucks is I was believing Posey had a good chance at becoming that YAC guy. He's not afraid to take a hit and has good balance. He also has the strength to break some arm tackles. It's unfortunate.
I didn't see enough from Posey's 6 catches to form a solid opinion. Kubiak waited so long to put him on the field, not sure what he could or couldn't do. While his injury is certainly unfortunate, I don't think that's only reason the Texans would be looking for another WR in this draft. The Posey/Jean/Martin trio didn't produce enough to know if there is anything there.
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Old 01-20-2013   #45
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I didn't see enough from Posey's 6 catches to form a solid opinion. Kubiak waited so long to put him on the field, not sure what he could or couldn't do. While his injury is certainly unfortunate, I don't think that's only reason the Texans would be looking for another WR in this draft. The Posey/Jean/Martin trio didn't produce enough to know if there is anything there.
I agree. With or without Posey, I'd like to see a receiver taken early!
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Old 01-20-2013   #46
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

Just a reminder, Many people here have stated they believe Matt Schaub is a better QB than Matt Ryan. I've never had an opinion of the kid myself, so I don't know. However, unless Schaub's injury is affecting his game & it's not likely to get better, I don't see why Schaub can't reah that level again in your minds.

We'll see today how far Ryan an get his team.

Though I will say it will suck if Dunta Robinson gets to a Super Bowl before we do.
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Old 01-20-2013   #47
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Matt Schaub isn't a pimple on Matt Ryans ass ...
Just imagine the Falcons didn't have Julio Jones. I doubt they make it to the play offs. He had a heck of a year.
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Old 01-20-2013   #48
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Just imagine the Falcons didn't have Julio Jones. I doubt they make it to the play offs. He had a heck of a year.
Good observation Thunder. Living in Atlanta, I have watched Ryan all year closely. A very good QB, no doubt. But he has a hell of an arsenal. He keeps hitting the wall mentally. The good news for Atlanta is his wall keeps moving forward. One thing for sure is Atlantans stay behind him - even when he has bad games ( even after his 5 interception game earlier this year).

The NFl is not just a QB league now. Many teams have a good one. It has become a playmaker receiver league as well. And Atlanta recognized this and gambled big on Julio. It appears to have been a good bet.
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Old 01-21-2013   #49
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

I just rewatched the first half of our game vs the Patriots. Still, there is nothing leading me to believe he has an issue with his foot. He pointed it & planted it with consiteny, only throwing off his left heel one time. He play faked to the left, he play faked to the right, he moved well (for him) in the pocket, he scrambled well (for him) & attempted to make several off-schedule plays only to be let down by poor handed receivers... OD & Foster among them. He took some chances, OD had to make some amazing catches, he beat LB coverage to get the ball to Foster.....

He definitely could have played better, I still have issues with his ball placement, but they are the same issues I had before the LisFranc.

Unless they are shooting up his foot before every half, I'm not seeing any residual effect of his injury. He'll get better when the team gets better.
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Old 01-21-2013   #50
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
More than track speed, the Texans need someone with run after catch ability. Defenses are blitzing Schaub on 3rd down, and he has to get the ball out quickly. He cannot buy time in the pocket or rollout.

The Texans should concentrate on letting a receiver that is strong and quick enough to get separation in press coverage, then break a tackle and create havoc in the secondary. A Pierre Garcon type of WR. Cordarrelle Patterson might be the best example in this draft class. Not a polished downfield WR, but someone who can make a play with the ball in his hands.
True. Out of the trio of Jean, Posey, and Martin Posey might be the only one to have that ability. If Matt's going to remain the starter they really need to upgrade his outside weapons as opposed to adding another middle of the road WR.

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I dunno, I'm hearing mixed reviews on Newt's potential as our RT for the long-term ? Some are saying he's the answer.

Gotta give GM Smith credit, he saw something there and Posey started to flash and really make some plays towards the end of the season. But if I'm not mistaken, C&D indicated Posey may have been damaged merchandise from the get-go ? It sounds very discouraging for the Ohio State WR after that
really nasty injury in the playoff game in NE ?
Kinda figures he's had a mixed season. Physically he's got the athleticism and height you look for in a RT, maybe he needs more time with Benton and co and get coached up is what they are thinking. I guess I just don't have the same confidence he's the long term answer at RT.

With or without a healthy Posey next year I'm still on the bandwagon that the WR needs to be a high priority in the draft.
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Old 01-21-2013   #51
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.
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Old 01-21-2013   #52
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Matt Schaub isn't a pimple on Matt Ryans ass ...
Lol, funniest thing I've read today.
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Old 01-21-2013   #53
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.
Concerning WR, very good points. I'm of the mindset that we should acquire a veteran such as Jennings, Smith or Welker. We don't have the time to draft and develop another WR. The only problem is that I don't see us having the cap room to acquire such a talent at WR without sacrificing cap space in the future and not being able to sign our other young guys who's contracts will be coming up. Its frustrating we didn't address finding a compliment WR to Andre earlier during Kubiaks tenure.
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Old 01-21-2013   #54
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Originally Posted by Goldensilence View Post
True. Out of the trio of Jean, Posey, and Martin Posey might be the only one to have that ability. If Matt's going to remain the starter they really need to upgrade his outside weapons as opposed to adding another middle of the road WR.



Kinda figures he's had a mixed season. Physically he's got the athleticism and height you look for in a RT, maybe he needs more time with Benton and co and get coached up is what they are thinking. I guess I just don't have the same confidence he's the long term answer at RT.

With or without a healthy Posey next year I'm still on the bandwagon that the WR needs to be a high priority in the draft.
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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.
I'm beginning to the that the Texans want WRs who can block first . The Broncos of the glory years of Shanny had Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery as the wideouts and Shannon Sharpe as TE . Sound or look familiar ? Sharpe was a late round pick , Smith FA , McCaffery was a 4th for the Giants ( I think ) , and T Davis was a 6th ( I think ) .

I think the theory on offense is scheme and execution with a QB who understands what your doing . The Broncos had Elway and then Jake Plummer . Both mobile QBs .
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Old 01-21-2013   #55
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.
Granted Smith did go out & get Joseph & Manning, but let's not forget that that was the year he & kubiak probably sat on the hottest seats that they have ever felt in Houston. Of course he was going to pull out all the stops to ensure he stayed employed. It's a shame that his best signings have come when he felt his job was at stake. Back to the old comfort of being in Bob's good graces so I don't expect much in Free Agency to be honest. It's not his or kubiaks style & they have both have new contracts to make them feel warm & fuzzy.

I can only see the likes of Ramses Barden , Devery Henderson, or Jerome Simpson being the type of wr's the Texans may consider signing & that's ONLY if they FINALLY part ways w/ the blocking sensation Walter. With the salary cap situation I cannot see them going after the likes of Bowe or Jennings. With that being said, i can easily see another year of a mid round wr being drafted & possibly a cheap FA being brought in. No big splash.
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Old 01-21-2013   #56
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
This is hilarious that people are even still talking about this pathetic trio of WR's that the Texans threw out there this season.


I complained my ass off last season at how we didn't and wouldn't go after any free agent WR's. All I heard was how great Martin, Jean, and maybe Posey would be because of some reports in camp and then some plays in pre season. Never understood why people banked on that after seeing the let down from Jacoby and Erik Moulds. It's like people like to have their hopes up just to be let down. None of these guys have proven anything on the NFL level.

The Texans still have a nice window now. They might still have some talent in Steve Smith from the Panthers where they can get him for a steal. The guy has been the perfect trade bait for years now, but he just might be to old now. Greg Jennings would be a good person to go after as well if they can find the cap room, but I doubt it. Drafting a WR won't do the job to me, because they'll need a year or two to get better. The Texans need a really solid vet that has the capability to put up 1000 yards and around 8 TD's. None of these guys on the roster are even close.

For people that think that Rick Smith is a good GM, this shouldn't be hard for him as he has had years to do it. Unfortunately Rick Smith is anti free agency. And before people try to bring up the off season from two years ago, that was one off season and I'll give him props in that off season for getting Manning and Joseph, but that was one off season out of 6 or 7 now. Rick Smith needs to learn how to go out and sign quality free agents or make some trades to bring in some big time players to fill holes.
The Texans didn't have the cap space to go after FA, Tex.

As far as the draft went, several of us recommended Stephen Hill.
He was drafted at #43 by the Jets I believe.

He became the starter right off the bat and caught 2 TDs in his first game.
He was hindered by injuries soon afterward however, and was finally put on IR later on during the year.

We also considered T.Y. Hilton, but Posey fits better into the mold of a #2 receiver that might eventually replace Walter.
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Old 01-21-2013   #57
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
I'm beginning to the that the Texans want WRs who can block first . The Broncos of the glory years of Shanny had Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery as the wideouts and Shannon Sharpe as TE . Sound or look familiar ? Sharpe was a late round pick , Smith FA , McCaffery was a 4th for the Giants ( I think ) , and T Davis was a 6th ( I think ) .

I think the theory on offense is scheme and execution with a QB who understands what your doing . The Broncos had Elway and then Jake Plummer . Both mobile QBs .
Man, you're probably right and that's part of the problem I absolutely hate with Kubiak. I'm so sick and tired of his "old system" that he refuses to adjust somewhat. It's the single reason why I've hated this guy for all these years is because everything is always one way with him. He cannot and will not adjust his philosophies with a " constantly changing" NFL and a team that will always need to be tweaked some. We need some play makers at WR. We have for years, and now it's a much bigger problem. Kubiak can get a lot of WR's and try to put the blocking mentality into them. A great coach does that. Hell, Todd Haley has done that with a lot of WR's. But Kubiak needs to get out of his one way system of everything, or the NFL is going to pass him by really really fast. It probably already has, but he is the coach here, so we have what we have. But we need play makers at WR to help out and we have for years. It's way to much of a need now. We might have to roll with Yates at some point next season and with as average as he is going to be, he'll need as many play makers as he can get.
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Old 01-21-2013   #58
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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The Texans didn't have the cap space to go after FA, Tex.

As far as the draft went, several of us recommended Stephen Hill.
He was drafted at #43 by the Jets I believe.

He became the starter right off the bat and caught 2 TDs in his first game.
He was hindered by injuries soon afterward however, and was finally put on IR late on the year.

We also considered T.Y. Hilton, but Posey fits better into the mold of a #2 receiver that might eventually replace Walter.
So your answer is to do nothing from what I can read here.


They could have traded other assets to free up room on the cap or traded for actual WR's. Maybe they get worse somewhere else, but sometimes that is what you have to do in order to acquire players. That is the job of a GM, and that is where Rick Smith is an amateur as I have stated for years. The guy simply doesn't know how to engineer strong plays with his assets. When was the last time Smith ever ripped a team off in a trade??? Him and Kubiak are ti stubborn and only want to build through the draft. They do pretty well with their 1st round picks. I'll give them that, but after that they both leave a lot to be desired, and building only through the draft is a terrible approach to me. You should always be trying to acquire assets in any way you can.
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Old 01-21-2013   #59
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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Man, you're probably right and that's part of the problem I absolutely hate with Kubiak. I'm so sick and tired of his "old system" that he refuses to adjust somewhat. It's the single reason why I've hated this guy for all these years is because everything is always one way with him. He cannot and will not adjust his philosophies with a " constantly changing" NFL and a team that will always need to be tweaked some. We need some play makers at WR. We have for years, and now it's a much bigger problem. Kubiak can get a lot of WR's and try to put the blocking mentality into them. A great coach does that. Hell, Todd Haley has done that with a lot of WR's. But Kubiak needs to get out of his one way system of everything, or the NFL is going to pass him by really really fast. It probably already has, but he is the coach here, so we have what we have. But we need play makers at WR to help out and we have for years. It's way to much of a need now. We might have to roll with Yates at some point next season and with as average as he is going to be, he'll need as many play makers as he can get.
Al Davis said that you never turn down the chance to get someone who can put the ball in the endzone .

If you look at recent drafts , say 2005 and on , you'll see the only Playoff team that's sustained is New England . Why ... Brady and the hoody I guess .

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft
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Old 01-21-2013   #60
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Default Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade

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So your answer is to do nothing from what I can read here.


They could have traded other assets to free up room on the cap or traded for actual WR's. Maybe they get worse somewhere else, but sometimes that is what you have to do in order to acquire players. That is the job of a GM, and that is where Rick Smith is an amateur as I have stated for years. The guy simply doesn't know how to engineer strong plays with his assets. When was the last time Smith ever ripped a team off in a trade??? Him and Kubiak are ti stubborn and only want to build through the draft. They do pretty well with their 1st round picks. I'll give them that, but after that they both leave a lot to be desired, and building only through the draft is a terrible approach to me. You should always be trying to acquire assets in any way you can.
After JJo and Manning(two big FA signings), there's just no more room.

Other teams don't want to trade away the receivers they like.

The FAs on the market that were worth anything were too rich.

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2012WR.php
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