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Old 01-20-2013   #21
tru80texan
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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Fans only account for one third of the selection. Players and coaches account for the other two thirds.
I realize that, but I think we can all agree that we have seen some players who are easily better then others not make it as well as players who made it based on reputation as opposed to performance in that particular season. Not sure how many players & coaches actually participate in voting or how serious it taken amongst them, but the fan vote is normally a good indication of what players are going to make it & as I said earlier it normally includes a list of players who don't necessarily deserve to be "all stars" imo.
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Old 01-20-2013   #22
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I realize that, but I think we can all agree that we have seen some players who are easily better then others not make it as well as players who made it based on reputation as opposed to performance in that particular season. Not sure how many players & coaches actually participate in voting or how serious it taken amongst them, but the fan vote is normally a good indication of what players are going to make it & as I said earlier it normally includes a list of players who don't necessarily deserve to be "all stars" imo.
Taking that into account, is there really a lot of Texans fans out there voting for Wade Smith? I mean, everyone in here is surprised he made it. Is there really a lot of Texans fans voting him to the Pro Bowl? And I bet, he is barely known outside of Houston. One explanation is he's better than we all think?
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Old 01-20-2013   #23
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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Taking that into account, is there really a lot of Texans fans out there voting for Wade Smith? I mean, everyone in here is surprised he made it. Is there really a lot of Texans fans voting him to the Pro Bowl? And I bet, he is barely known outside of Houston. One explanation is he's better than we all think?
No, I don't think he's better then we think he is. I think a lot of people know of Arian & how well he does & the natural assumption is if Arian is doing well then his o-lineman must be doing well. Not only that, the Texans have had a reputation for having a decent o-line the last few seasons despite the obvious decline this season. As I said earlier, I think reputation as opposed to production gets some players in & I think our o-lineman have benefited from Arians success imo.

And yes I do believe there are that many Texans "fans" who probably voted for every Texan. The fan base has grown quite a bit w/ the recent success & not all pay attention enough to know which players are the better ones on the team so its easier just to vote for them all. I don't care for that mindset, but it is what it is. Let's be honest, even those that do know the difference in the players can't remove their homer glasses & still voted for all of the Texans.
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Old 01-20-2013   #24
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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I don't think we were getting our money's worth out of him, when we signed him to a deal that paid him $8M a year over the first three years.

This year, 2012, I have no problem paying him $8M..... I don't know what his cap number was for the year, or how the contract worked out, I thought he restructured.

His number has got to "fit" within the cap but I wouldn't mind seeing a $6M/yr deal with performance bonuses where a year like 2012 would get him an extra 2-3 mil.
OK, I'm going to take a stab at this.
Originally, Smith signed a 5yr deal for $35M (including $12.5 in signing bonus.)

He was guaranteed $19.4M through the first two years.

What wasn't reported at the time, but now shows up on Spotrac is that he has to earn part of his salary in the last 3 years through some form of bonus (roster and/or incentive bonus,) at $1.3M per year.

He was due to make $4.4 in 2011 (including the $1.3) when he agreed to restructure his contract.

There wasn't any report of him receiving any front loaded money to defer his salary.
Again, as per Spotrac, he only took home $2M (including the $1.3M) instead of roughly some $4.4M

In another word, it looks like he took one for the team.
He risked leaving money on the table (or he was forced too.)

Based on the Demeco Ryan's situation, perhaps the remainder of his contract was guaranteed in exchange for the temporary pay cut.

If that's the case, the Texans guaranteed his contract (gaining the interest money) and cap space.

I think Smith will play through next season at a base salary of $6M plus that $1.3M roster/incentive bonus.

The Texans are in the book for the $2.5M prorated signing bonus (from the origin $12.5)

Let's assume something else entirely different .
Let's say that the Texans didn't guarantee Smith anything.

Cutting Smith would give the Texans $7.3 M in salary (but they can only use $4.8M) to find a replacement.

You're not going to be able to find a comparable player at that money.

I think Smith will stay.

Now if the Texans really like Smith, they might extend his contract at lower value per year, perhaps for another 2 to 3 years and be done with it.

There isn't a guy currently on the team that can replace him.

However, if they need to, they will have to cut him and hope that they can draft another guy. Or they can sign a low cost FA and give Jamison and Mitchell more snaps at that position.
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Old 01-20-2013   #25
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
Same question but for Wade Smith? $3m this year, FA in 2014.
ProFootballFocus rated Wade Smith as the 26th best G (54 total) and 13th best RG in 2012, for Gs taking at least 50% of team snaps.

Playing between Brown & Myers helps. I don't see them resigning Smith, who'll be 32.

Apologies to OP re: off topic post.
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Old 01-20-2013   #26
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

Sure seemed to make alot of silly mistakes .... offsides , unsportsman like penalties .... and wasnt as productive as in the past.


I could see him staying , getting restructured and even cut .... Nothing is off the table in this instance.
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Old 01-20-2013   #27
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

Player makes Pro-Bowl and Texans promptly cut him...
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Old 01-20-2013   #28
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

He has shown no drop off in his play, so I would extend him a couple of years to make his contract cap friendly.
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Old 01-20-2013   #29
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

He needs to restructure. Simply as that. That is just too much money. We definitely want to keep him since no one else seemed capable of getting pressure on the quarterback when Watt was occupied. We signed Tim Jamison to an extension early in season which made me think we already planned on cutting Smith so Jamison could step in. Of course they did that thinking we had strong edge rushers in Barwin and Reed. Oops, heh.

We'll see. Jamison is solid but haven't seen him push a pocket like Smith has lately and of course he's coming off that season ending injury. We also have Crick but that is an unknown. Hopefully Smith will restructure because we can definitely use him while these young backers develop.
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Old 01-20-2013   #30
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I don't know how Wade Smith made the Pro Bowl, but the easy answer to your question is no. Wade Smith is not worth re-signing. I think we should draft his replacement this year in the 2nd or 3rd round and let this rookie sit for a year behind Wade while getting some playing time to learn and then start at LG in 2014.

The Raiders overpaid for a RG.
I think HOU may cut Wade.
RT Newton
RG Jones
C Myers
LG Brooks
LT Brown

I know that is a young line but with entire off season to work with these guys as the starters In think it can work. Brooks could be a beast at 340lbs in the run game.
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Old 01-20-2013   #31
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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I think HOU may cut Wade.
RT Newton
RG Jones
C Myers
LG Brooks
LT Brown

I know that is a young line but with entire off season to work with these guys as the starters In think it can work. Brooks could be a beast at 340lbs in the run game.
.....That line scares the living crap out of me LOL
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Old 01-20-2013   #32
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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I think HOU may cut Wade.
RT Newton
RG Jones
C Myers
LG Brooks
LT Brown

I know that is a young line but with entire off season to work with these guys as the starters In think it can work. Brooks could be a beast at 340lbs in the run game.
interesting, who is your back up OG? Newton had only 17 plays his rookie year and then beat out Butler. Not sure if Brooks ready to start but could be.
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Old 01-20-2013   #33
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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interesting, who is your back up OG? Newton had only 17 plays his rookie year and then beat out Butler. Not sure if Brooks ready to start but could be.
Could be a draft pick HOU should have a extra 3rd round pick in draft or GM Smith has had success on picking up guys other teams discard.
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Old 01-20-2013   #34
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

Totally off topic, but I hope Watt continues to wear that brace on his left arm.

Makes him look like a cyborg.
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Old 01-20-2013   #35
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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I would think Brooks is his repacement. I think that's why Kubiak rotated him with Ben Jones this year, to get it out of the way. Next year, Brooks will compete with Smith & Jones will start at RG.

I've got concerns about Newton, but he did have a knee thing & that could explain a lot. But the same goes for Smith, he's been battling through stuff as well. If there's reason to believe he can play like 2009, I've got no problem keeping him & starting him if the cap allows.

I agree the whole Pro Bowl voting and game has become a joke.
I see Brooks as our starting RG next season and see our starting O-line like this:

LT-Brown
LG-W. Smith
C-Myers
RG-Brooks
RT-Newton

Ben Jones is our primary backup at all interior O-line positions, I just think he's to small to be a starter at OG.
We draft an O-lineman to get sporadic playing time behind Smith in 2013 and then when Smith becomes a FA in 2014, he's replaced by the new guy.
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Old 01-20-2013   #36
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Sure seemed to make alot of silly mistakes .... offsides , unsportsman like penalties .... and wasnt as productive as in the past.


I could see him staying , getting restructured and even cut .... Nothing is off the table in this instance.
A. Smith gets cut if he doesn't restructure. His season reminds me alot of Winston. Good not great, definitely overpaid.

I think enough people get cut to find a younger vet OG kinda like W.Smith was when he signed in FA. Then a RT is drafted.
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Old 01-21-2013   #37
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

Wow, Smith is so underrated. Dude is absolutely worth it, imo. Watt and him were the only ones on the DLine who did jack **** this year.
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Old 01-21-2013   #38
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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Ben Jones is our primary backup at all interior O-line positions, I just think he's to small to be a starter at OG..
Isn't he the same size as Briesel?
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Old 01-21-2013   #39
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

I think we should extend Smith say 2 more years (meaning wed have him for 3 more seasons) and spread the hit out while lowering the hit this season. We have no good options behind him yet, so getting rid of him would be crazy.

At least we have Butler (we thought) when we got rid of Winston, and even that did not work, so don't make the same mistake, rework his deal instead.
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Old 01-21-2013   #40
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Default Re: Will we and/or Should we keep Antonio Smith for the 2013 Season ?

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Isn't he the same size as Briesel?
Actually Jones is a bit smaller. Jones 6'3" 303lbs/ Briesel 6'5" 310lbs/ Caldwell 6'3" 315lbs. Added Caldwell just for comparison.

Jones needs to bulk up w/ strength. He simply got manhandled by Suh & Wilfork. Both are no easy task for any o-lineman, but Jones was tossed like a rag doll on a few occasions.
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