The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits

[Rey]

You guys are rewriting history now. This has never been a speedy offense. That's why they made such a big deal about the sugar huddle this season and kubiak mentioned he wanted to dabble with it.

And there were plenty of times in the past where kubiak had opted to take knees with plenty of time left on the clock before the half and people around here complained.

Our two minute offense in past seasons has been underwhelming. It's not like we were masters of the hurry up and then all of a sudden this season we changed.

[Señor Stan]

I don't have a problem with the Texans trying to catch the Pats off guard with the deep ball on 4th and 1. If they can burn them for a TD the game is 31-20 with most of the 4th left...

The problem I have is with the throw Schaub made...if he was going the throw up a prayer, throw it to Andre further down the field and give him a chance to make a play.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Señor Stan

I don't have a problem with the Texans trying to catch the Pats off guard with the deep ball on 4th and 1. If they can burn them for a TD the game is 31-20 with most of the 4th left...

The problem I have is with the throw Schaub made...if he was going the throw up a prayer, throw it to Andre further down the field and give him a chance to make a play.

almost a quarter left and you chunk a low % 4th down pass deep down field in double coverage and hand the ball to Tom Brady on your own 33? That's good coaching to you? This team is the BEST team in the league throwing shallow crossing routes and dinking and dunking. Take a shot at the end zone if you are on other side of the 50 perhaps, but once they gave the Pats the ball back (already in scoring position) the game was essentially over the very next play.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Vinny

almost a quarter left and you chunk a low % 4th down pass deep down field in double coverage and hand the ball to Tom Brady on your own 33? That's good coaching to you? This team is the BEST team in the league throwing shallow crossing routes and dinking and dunking. Take a shot at the end zone if you are on other side of the 50 perhaps, but once they gave the Pats the ball back (already in scoring position) the game was essentially over the very next play.

Not to mention AJ's more than likely got a safety over the top...that's an easy pick..it's 1 of the reason Schaub doesn't just throw it up there like that. Yates tried it a few times last year against the Ravens...how'd that turn out for him?

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

That can't be it. No way we pay a guy $60M if they don't trust him to run a 2 minute offense. The problem has to be elsewhere. There's someone, something else he doesn't trust.

I didn't say never; I only said "not much".

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

running the no-huddle and hurry up was not an issue in years past. I surmise its probably the WR's and O-line....right side of the o-line specifically.

Running that kind of a scheme calls for a lot of quick passes; you don't need a stout O-line to do that. You don't need great receivers either. You need a QB with a quick release that can also make quick decision most of all. Snap, ball gone; whether it's long or short or anything in between.

Look at Keenum, his O-line at UH wasn't much; none of his receivers were drafted; he went against teams that played Luck, RG III, Weeden, Tannerhill, you name it.

They were going so fast, they wore their own defense down, the coaches had to tone it down in the second half of the season.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

However, if you're on our defense, STs got the offense to the 12 yard line, & we settled for a field goal, what would you be thinking?

How the $#!+ did James Casey let a gimmie TD pass go right through his damned hands?!?

[eriadoc]

Over the last six games (counting the two playoff games), the Texans offense possessed the ball 67 times. They scored 8 TDs. Schaub threw for 2 of those, alongside several interceptions. One of them was a garbage time TD that did not threaten the game in any way. At least two more of the offensive TDs (one by Yates, one by Foster) were also garbage time TDs that did not threaten the scoreboard in any meaningful fashion.

On the season, it looks like the Texans attempted more FGs than any other playoff team, and quite a few of those came in the last six games.

[9baller]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Running that kind of a scheme calls for a lot of quick passes; you don't need a stout O-line to do that. You don't need great receivers either. You need a QB with a quick release that can also make quick decision most of all. Snap, ball gone; whether it's long or short or anything in between.

Look at Keenum, his O-line at UH wasn't much; none of his receivers were drafted; he went against teams that played Luck, RG III, Weeden, Tannerhill, you name it.

They were going so fast, they wore their own defense down, the coaches had to tone it down in the second half of the season.

I was wondering about how quick Keenum gets rid of the ball. I think I heard that Brady is the quickest in the NFL and gets rid of the ball in just over 3 seconds. Do you have any clue about this?

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by 9baller

I was wondering about how quick Keenum gets rid of the ball. I think I heard that Brady is the quickest in the NFL and gets rid of the ball in just over 3 seconds. Do you have any clue about this?

Well, actually, a Pat fan posted either here or on their MB (I can't remember which) that there was a report that Brady got the ball out on the average in 2.2 seconds; I don't know whether that's true or not.

In 2011 I think, during one of our games, the network shows a comparison between Peyton and somebody (I don't remember who) getting set and pull the trigger to see how fast it is. But this is different from getting the ball out counting from the moment the ball is snapped.

What I had done before the last draft was to take screen shots of various QBs in the draft on pass plays.

I focus on just the shotgun, because many of them hardly take the ball from under center.

I measure the time on different routes; let's say a 10 yard out or a 35 yard deep out, etc.

I can guarantee with you that on the average, Keenum gets the ball out of there quicker than any QB in the last draft.

Too bad, I didn't store but a few screen shots.
I can do it again, but I will be busy for a couple of weeks; I will have to get to it later.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Over the last six games (counting the two playoff games), the Texans offense possessed the ball 67 times. They scored 8 TDs. Schaub threw for 2 of those, alongside several interceptions. One of them was a garbage time TD that did not threaten the game in any way. At least two more of the offensive TDs (one by Yates, one by Foster) were also garbage time TDs that did not threaten the scoreboard in any meaningful fashion.

On the season, it looks like the Texans attempted more FGs than any other playoff team, and quite a few of those came in the last six games.

This is what leads me to believe something happened that we aren't fully aware of, more than something is fundamentally wrong with this team.

If Schaub wasn't "good enough" we never would have gotten to 12-1. If the right side of our line was the problem, we never would have gotten to 12-1. If our coach is over his head, we never would have gotten to 12-1.

Along the way, we beat some pretty good teams, Denver, Chicago (when they're healthy, they're as good as any team out there & they were healthy to start that game), & Baltimore. We beat some decent teams, Indy, Miami & Detroit. We beat some bad teams, Jacksonville, Buffalo, & NYJets.

No one expected us to go undefeated, you win some, you lose some. But when we lost, we were utterly & completely dismantled. At least against the elite teams, Green Bay & New England. Other teams were able to show up against those teams, but not us. Totally dominated on both sides of the ball. Then there was Minnesota & Indy, our offense was completely useless.

I think there is something to be said about choking in big games. But the Bengals game was a big game. Definite issues in the red zone, but our running game looked good, our passing game looked good, our defense looked good. Cincinnati was the better team, but we managed to win.

Something happened, I don't know what it was, but we weren't able to overcome. I don't think our team's fundamentals are that bad. Not saying that I'm hoping for more of the same, or a small improvement going further. I'd like a Super Bowl as much as the rest of you, but I'm not "sure" a new QB is the quickest path, or a new Coach, or a new "philosophy" I honestly don't know what is, but I'm not liking what I'm hearing so far.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Well, actually, a Pat fan posted either here or on their MB (I can't remember which) that there was a report that Brady got the ball out on the average in 2.2 seconds; I don't know whether that's true or not.

In 2011 I think, during one of our games, the network shows a comparison between Peyton and somebody (I don't remember who) getting set and pull the trigger to see how fast it is. But this is different from getting the ball out counting from the moment the ball is snapped.

What I had done before the last draft was to take screen shots of various QBs in the draft on pass plays.

I focus on just the shotgun, because many of them hardly take the ball from under center.

I measure the time on different routes; let's say a 10 yard out or a 35 yard deep out, etc.

I can guarantee with you that on the average, Keenum gets the ball out of there quicker than any QB in the last draft.

Too bad, I didn't store but a few screen shots.
I can do it again, but I will be busy for a couple of weeks; I will have to get to it later.

And then it's more involved than just that as far as the art of QBking.
Sometimes you would see Keenum fake throwing a ten yard out only to throw a swing pass, or vice versa.

How often does he look off the safety (or safeties).
How often does he look left but throw right.
How well does he pull the D-linemen in on a screen pass without getting sack as to give the RB more room to operate.
Can be tell that the CB doesn't have time to look back and throw a pass at the back of his head where only his receiver can adjust to the ball.
Can he gauge the depth of the double coverage and where the defenders are headed and throw the ball to a place where his receiver is in the best position to make the play even though it's double coverage.
How well does he lead his receiver so that he can catch the ball in stride or out of harm way.

I had noted that Luck had led Osuwu to 3 concussions because he failed to do so, subjecting his receiver to an unecessary big hit.

Things like that...

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

How often does he look off the safety (or safeties).
How often does he look left but throw right.
How well does he pull the D-linemen in on a screen pass without getting sack as to give the RB more room to operate.

Gruden a coach many clamor for around here said Schaub does both of the first two excellently and broke down several plays showing it before one of the games. I don't recall Schaub being sacked on any screen plays. There may be some examples but certainly enough to call it a problem.

[tru80texan]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

How the $#!+ did James Casey let a gimmie TD pass go right through his damned hands?!?

That & were the heck was schaub throwing his next pass that missed a wide open Andre in the endzone by a mile.

The receivers didn't help Schaub, but he hurt himself on a few occasions as well.

[HJam72]

The title of this thread is exactly the problem and symptomatic of Kubiak:

who the heck puts mustard on biscuits???

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by buddyboy

Why listen to a Cowboys fan on what's wrong with this team? Do you think his opinion has any more weight than anyone here? I guarantee you 90% of these posters know more than him, why should we care what a cowboys fan thinks?

Dude my whole point was that you dont have to be a fan of or follow the texans to see what the problems with the team are. Cause it is that obvious.

Thought the post was kind of obvious, its not like i give a damn what a boys fan think about the other texas team.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Gruden a coach many clamor for around here said Schaub does both of the first two excellently and broke down several plays showing it before one of the games. I don't recall Schaub being sacked on any screen plays. There may be some examples but certainly enough to call it a problem.

I think you're right, I think Gruden talked about that.
I wasn't really talking about Schaub in this specific instance, I was talking about all the QBs that were drafted.

But Schaub can still do better on those things.
For example, on the pass that he threw in the endzone to Walter that McCourty intercepted, he didn't look off the safety.

I believe AJ was running a route on the left (where McCourty had an eye on in case AJ runs a post route, and Foster sneaked out of the backfield, Schaub never tried to freeze McCourty. Either that, or Schaub could lure the safety and dumped the ball to Foster.

On the screen pass, I don't recall an instance where Schaub was sacked (but he might have been), but I would say it's probably more of a problem by the O-lineman. But I was really talking about the rookie QBs.

More often though, the QB has a lot to do with whether he's quick enough with his read to know that a defender is coming in too quickly, and he needs to get the ball out faster for a better chance of a completion, or he needs to draw the defender know close enough so that the back doesn't get tackled before he can make a move.

Sometimes, it's better for the QB to fake a pass to one flat before throwing tbe screen pass to the other side as to avoid getting the ball batted down.

I've seen Keenum do this very well like an NFL veteran.

These are the things that those of us who follow Keenum closely notice.
And that's why we said that he's such a smart QB.