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Old 01-17-2013   #1
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Default 2012 Texans Year in Review

Houston Texans 2012: My view of the season and beyond

Talks about common discussion points and some uncommon ones. Focuses a lot on some off-season decisions and how they became challenges--things you could see in camp. Looks at some turning points in the season. Doesn't pretend to have any answers because often decisions are the making of better of bad choices.
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Old 01-17-2013   #2
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

I don't want to turn this into another Matt Schaub thread, because the good and bad of 2012 was more than Matt Schaub. The Texans had the premier defender in the NFL. But there are more questions surrounding the defense at a fundamental level than there were at the end of 2011. Andre Johnson had a tremendous statistical season. But many observers realize that he isn't the game changer he was in 2010. The Texans went 11-1 to begin the season, winning games in a variety of ways. They finished 2-4 (including the playoffs), and looked miles away from the team (Patriots) that defeated them twice in that stretch.

Still, this is a QB-centric league. Eventually, the discussion has to come around to the QB. After the 2011 season, many fans and some league observers felt that the Texans would have made it to the Super Bowl had Matt Schaub not been injured in season. The general consensus was that while Schaub was not 1st tier (Brees, Brady, Rodgers), he needed only playoff success to be considered in the Eli/Big Ben tier.

Does anyone think that now?
Quote:
Teh Schaub Issue.
Talk radio after the last game could be called “Schaub talk radio.” The general view goes something like this: Texans can’t win the big game with Schaub. Texans play too conservative. Schaub doesn’t have the arm to go downfield. What happened to Schaub down the stretch? Schaub is 31. He is only going to get worse. Why the * did the Texans extend Schaub before the season?


I have no Schaub answers. Like all players, he has strengths and weaknesses. The QB position is one where even backups are overpaid. And let’s say that the Texans did not extend Schaub before the season. Who would they be signing now? For a good value. If you hear some of the names that Jaguar fans are looking at for quarterback right now, they tend to induce vomity feelings.
Let's say the Texans did not extend Schaub before the season. Who would they be signing now? Well, they could still sign Matt Schaub. At a lot less money and for fewer seasons. Because no team would be offering Schaub $60 million now. I'm sorry, but there's no legit excuse for making this type of franchise crippling mistake. And it's the second time McNair has made this very mistake. Inexcusable.

Healthier TEs. More experienced wideouts. Better offensive line. With a perfect team around him, maybe it is possible for Matt Schaub to become a championship QB. Maybe. After watching the last 6 games, I don't feel that way. I don't know how Kubiak, Smith, and McNair can. But like it or not, Schaub's contract forces the Texans to keep him on the team. That doesn't preclude them to start looking for his eventual replacement. Despite all of the good things that happened in 2012, the final sentence on the season should read, "Matt Schaub isn't good enough."
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Old 01-17-2013   #3
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

Reaaaaaaaaaaach on "franchise crippling".
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Old 01-17-2013   #4
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
I don't want to turn this into another Matt Schaub thread, because the good and bad of 2012 was more than Matt Schaub. The Texans had the premier defender in the NFL. But there are more questions surrounding the defense at a fundamental level than there were at the end of 2011. Andre Johnson had a tremendous statistical season. But many observers realize that he isn't the game changer he was in 2010. The Texans went 11-1 to begin the season, winning games in a variety of ways. They finished 2-4 (including the playoffs), and looked miles away from the team (Patriots) that defeated them twice in that stretch.

Still, this is a QB-centric league. Eventually, the discussion has to come around to the QB. After the 2011 season, many fans and some league observers felt that the Texans would have made it to the Super Bowl had Matt Schaub not been injured in season. The general consensus was that while Schaub was not 1st tier (Brees, Brady, Rodgers), he needed only playoff success to be considered in the Eli/Big Ben tier.

Does anyone think that now?
Let's say the Texans did not extend Schaub before the season. Who would they be signing now? Well, they could still sign Matt Schaub. At a lot less money and for fewer seasons. Because no team would be offering Schaub $60 million now. I'm sorry, but there's no legit excuse for making this type of franchise crippling mistake. And it's the second time McNair has made this very mistake. Inexcusable.

Healthier TEs. More experience wideouts. Better offensive line. With a perfect team around him, maybe it is possible for Matt Schaub to become a championship QB. Maybe. After watching the last 6 games, I don't feel that way. I don't know how Kubiak, Smith, and McNair can. But like it or not, Schaub's contract forces the Texans to keep him on the team. That doesn't preclude them to start looking for his eventual replacement. Despite all of the good things that happened in 2012, the final sentences should read, "Matt Schaub isn't good enough."
Are you sure that you could re-sign him for less money? QBs are getting insane money. There are other teams that have way more money to spend than the Texans because they didn't spend during the no cap year and now have to spend to hit the salary floor. Flacco is likely going to get even more money than he would had he signed prior to the season and it is anticipated to be much higher than Schaub. There are not 32 starting QBs in the NFL. So even second tier sorts of guys would get bizarro money. If you look at various numbers, Schaub's money is about where he ranks as a QB.

Short term it ties your hands but you probably would want to keep him if you were thinking of developing someone else. Drafted guys don't cost as much after the redo of the CBA. But not sure this year is a franchise guy QB draft.
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Old 01-17-2013   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Does anyone think that now?
Let's say the Texans did not extend Schaub before the season. Who would they be signing now? Well, they could still sign Matt Schaub. At a lot less money and for fewer seasons. Because no team would be offering Schaub $60 million now. I'm sorry, but there's no legit excuse for making this type of franchise crippling mistake. And it's the second time McNair has made this very mistake. Inexcusable.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.

I think people overstate the Matt schaub market.
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Old 01-17-2013   #6
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

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I agree with this wholeheartedly.

I think people overstate the Matt schaub market.
Go to a Jaguars forum. See what QBs they want the Jaguars to get. It will make you feel sorry for Jaguars fans.

It's not a Schaub market thing. It is a functional QB thing.
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Old 01-17-2013   #7
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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Go to a Jaguars forum. See what QBs they want the Jaguars to get. It will make you feel sorry for Jaguars fans.

It's not a Schaub market thing. It is a functional QB thing.
What do fans have to do with what a team wants or will do?

Have you looked around this forum lately?

If we judged what teams actions would be based on forum posts we'd be bringing in Alex smith, david Carr and a rookie to compete with tj Yates for the starting spot.

I believe there are teams out there that'd want schaub...but I can't think of many that are breaking the bank for him.

Lots of teams already have a lot of money tied up in that position and can't afford it or they have young qb's or are in position to grab a young qb near the top of this draft.
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Old 01-17-2013   #8
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rey View Post
What do fans have to do with what a team wants or will do?

Have you looked around this forum lately?

If we judged what teams actions would be based on forum posts we'd be bringing in Alex smith, david Carr and a rookie to compete with tj Yates for the starting spot.

I believe there are teams out there that'd want schaub...but I can't think of many that are breaking the bank for him.

Lots of teams already have a lot of money tied up in that position and can't afford it or they have young qb's or are in position to grab a young qb near the top of this draft.
Some positions get dumb amounts of money. Like 4-3 DEs, reasonably good CBs and QBs.

So what you are saying is that had the Texans not signed Schaub, we'd be getting him at a discount? And then sign him for how long?

Maybe the Texans should have gone to Costco to get a QB and a dollar hotdog.
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Old 01-17-2013   #9
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Are you sure that you could re-sign him for less money? QBs are getting insane money.
Yes, I'm quite sure that after this season, Schaub could have been re-signed for less than $60 million. Matt Hasselbeck signed for 3 years, $20 million in 2011. And he was at least as good as the 2012 Matt Schaub. With some playoff success on his resume. Good QBs are getting insane money. OK, good QBs and Mark Sanchez are getting insane money. Giving this contract to Matt Schaub is just as insane. Saying it's OK for the Texans to give insane contracts because all the other teams are doing it is an excuse for a mistake.

And if I would have been proven wrong, and Schaub was signed by the Bills or Jags, so what? The Texans become a 9-7 team again? Based on how they ended the season, that could happen anyway. Vinny, Runner, and some others have made the point that the Texans are slow to make changes and decisions. Others, such as yourself, have the opinion that the Texans slow and steady approach is the correct course. I think the league is soon to pass this team by. Probably a playoff team in 2013. Back to .500ville in 2014. The only quick decisions this organization knows how to make is extending non-franchise QBs to franchise QB contracts.
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Old 01-17-2013   #10
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

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Originally Posted by Texans_Chick View Post
Some positions get dumb amounts of money. Like 4-3 DEs, reasonably good CBs and QBs.

So what you are saying is that had the Texans not signed Schaub, we'd be getting him at a discount? And then sign him for how long?

Maybe the Texans should have gone to Costco to get a QB and a dollar hotdog.
Still, it now almost seems that the Texans went to Tiffany's and picked up a multi-million dollar hotdog.
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Old 01-17-2013   #11
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If I were HC, I'd use nothing but my drafted QBs and spend the Schaub Money on the OL to give my draft pick QB some help while he learns on the job.

I'd tell the GM and the owner that that's my philosophy, acquire two QBs every year by draft or UDFA...let the guys fight it out at camp, let them fight it out in preseason, best man wins the job.

I'd tell the GM and owner that in four years' time with this strategy, we're going to focus on OL, RB/FB/HB, and TE and WR instead of overpaying for QBs. Become dominant at the other areas via the finances available (since your QBs all have low salaries due to rookie contracts) and trust our scouts and my talent to build good QBs.

Kubiak is scared. He thinks Schaub is his best bet at QB. He wouldn't risk his job by making it an open competition. Which makes me mad when I read his BULL**** quotes about what he thinks of TJ and Case. Oh yeah, Gary? Then put them out there with the first team and let them show if they can or not.
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Old 01-17-2013   #12
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Still, it now almost seems that the Texans went to Tiffany's and picked up a multi-million dollar hotdog.
A multi-million dollar, James Coney Island hotdog????

I'm all in, Doc!!!

************************************


Meh, we're stuck with Schaub.

My biggest question goes to DocJean..... While you completely predicted Schaub's effects of his Lisfranc injury catching up with him late-season, did you see anything that encouraged you that through this past season, he could be fully recovered next season? (We all know that many players have never made it back from this type of injury).

********************

In addition to the potential long term effects of the above, Dan Pastorini made some brilliant points about Schaub. A) He thinks Schaub can be "the guy"
B) Apparently (paraphrasing) the QB coach sucks
C) Schaub has a strong enough arm but see "B)"..... His footwork sucks. In other words, he has a strong enough arm to get the ball downfield, BUT (according to Pastorini) he takes too many steps to fire.


I dunno.... It was very interesting hear Dante discuss all of this.. BTW, Dante is not a "Texans Embassador", but by the same token, he like Bum and Earl, are a fan of Houston and NOT PUD Adams. ... Just sayin'!
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Old 01-17-2013   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Yes, I'm quite sure that after this season, Schaub could have been re-signed for less than $60 million. Matt Hasselbeck signed for 3 years, $20 million in 2011. And he was at least as good as the 2012 Matt Schaub. With some playoff success on his resume. Good QBs are getting insane money. OK, good QBs and Mark Sanchez are getting insane money. Giving this contract to Matt Schaub is just as insane. Saying it's OK for the Texans to give insane contracts because all the other teams are doing it is an excuse for a mistake.

And if I would have been proven wrong, and Schaub was signed by the Bills or Jags, so what? The Texans become a 9-7 team again? Based on how they ended the season, that could happen anyway. Vinny, Runner, and some others have made the point that the Texans are slow to make changes and decisions. Others, such as yourself, have the opinion that the Texans slow and steady approach is the correct course. I think the league is soon to pass this team by. Probably a playoff team in 2013. Back to .500ville in 2014. The only quick decisions this organization knows how to make is extending non-franchise QBs to franchise QB contracts.
This...exactly this
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Old 01-17-2013   #14
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

13-5 ------------> AWESOME!!!!


Getting spanked and/or getting our pants pulled down by Green Bay and TWICE by New England???


= FAIL!!!
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Old 01-18-2013   #15
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Still, this is a QB-centric league. Eventually, the discussion has to come around to the QB. After the 2011 season, many fans and some league observers felt that the Texans would have made it to the Super Bowl had Matt Schaub not been injured in season. The general consensus was that while Schaub was not 1st tier (Brees, Brady, Rodgers), he needed only playoff success to be considered in the Eli/Big Ben tier.

Does anyone think that now?
Let's say the Texans did not extend Schaub before the season. Who would they be signing now? Well, they could still sign Matt Schaub. At a lot less money and for fewer seasons. Because no team would be offering Schaub $60 million now. I'm sorry, but there's no legit excuse for making this type of franchise crippling mistake. And it's the second time McNair has made this very mistake. Inexcusable.
Using hindsight, I agree with you, that it was a mistake. Inexcusable? At the very least, it was a gamble, a "risk" that so many people want this organization to take. If he had that great post season, it would look like a deal.

If this organization still believe Schaub is on that Eli/Ben tier, they probably still think they got a deal.

Nothing's changed concerning Schaub, those that wanted a different style QB, still want a different style QB, those that wanted a younger QB still want a younger QB, those that wanted a "fiery leader" still want a "fiery leader"

Only the level headed see he is the same loser he's always been & truthfully, there's no reason for this organization to second guess themselves. For every game, at least in the last 6 games, when Schaub doesn't show up, the running game doesn't show up, the defense doesn't show up. This past game, neither the run game, or the defense were good enough to win. No doubt in my mind, that Schaub's performance would have won the game if Arian had a good day, or if the defense had a good day. If you go back & look at our first two drives, the passing game looked good, great at times, but when we tried to run the ball, that's when we got off schedule.

Again, I am no fan of Matt Schaub. I did not agree with extending his contract, I did not agree with the initial contract we gave him, I did not agree with "giving" him the job over Sage (not that I wanted Sage to have it, but I wanted true competition in camp). But I didn't learn anything about Schaub from our last game. He's the same guy I thought he was, I'm sure Kubiak thinks the same. I think he's handicapping himself, always have, he obviously don't.
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Old 01-18-2013   #16
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
13-5 ------------> AWESOME!!!!


Getting spanked and/or getting our pants pulled down by Green Bay and TWICE by New England???


= FAIL!!!
Yeah!!! Why can't this team go undefeated?!?!
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Old 01-18-2013   #17
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
A multi-million dollar, James Coney Island hotdog????

I'm all in, Doc!!!

************************************


Meh, we're stuck with Schaub.

My biggest question goes to DocJean..... While you completely predicted Schaub's effects of his Lisfranc injury catching up with him late-season, did you see anything that encouraged you that through this past season, he could be fully recovered next season? (We all know that many players have never made it back from this type of injury).

********************

In addition to the potential long term effects of the above, Dan Pastorini made some brilliant points about Schaub. A) He thinks Schaub can be "the guy"
B) Apparently (paraphrasing) the QB coach sucks
C) Schaub has a strong enough arm but see "B)"..... His footwork sucks. In other words, he has a strong enough arm to get the ball downfield, BUT (according to Pastorini) he takes too many steps to fire.


I dunno.... It was very interesting hear Dante discuss all of this.. BTW, Dante is not a "Texans Embassador", but by the same token, he like Bum and Earl, are a fan of Houston and NOT PUD Adams. ... Just sayin'!


The 3 links below refer to my previous posts representative and explanatory of the significant negative effects that the post repaired Lisfranc injury can have on a QB’s (and specifically Schaub’s) performance.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...0&postcount=93

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2095537&postcount=140

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=28

Keep in mind that in the case of the Lisfranc injury (and, moreso, in Schaub’s case of a Lisfranc fracture injury), ~25% that are surgically repaired will develop progressive arthritis as quickly as only several months to years. A certain percentage will go on to require fusion of the joint to control the pain.....some sooner than later. And these numbers do not come from the professional athlete pool......i.e., one that would require much higher demands on a foot than the regular Joe.

Turning specific attention to Schaub, you will anymore hardly see him square up and point to his target with his left foot, both observations very consistent with avoiding full weight for balance stabilization off of his right back foot.

And for anyone that may say that they haven’t noticed any limp, and therefore there is nothing wrong with his foot. You can have significant discomfort or “instability” of the Lisfranc back foot when severely stressed momentarily, like planting and pushing off, and still not limp when walking or gingerly running. The momentary acute stress on the back foot alone or the anticipation of it being painful is enough to affect all aspects of Schaub’s game......including strength of throw, accuracy of throw (long, short or wide), ability to acutely side step to the left or step up (push off) in the pocket, or bootleg, QB sneak or play action to the left (try to find the last time Schaub ran one to the left).
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Old 01-18-2013   #18
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
And for anyone that may say that they haven’t noticed any limp, and therefore there is nothing wrong with his foot. You can have significant discomfort or “instability” of the Lisfranc back foot when severely stressed momentarily, like planting and pushing off, and still not limp when walking or gingerly running. The momentary acute stress on the back foot alone or the anticipation of it being painful is enough to affect all aspects of Schaub’s game......including strength of throw, accuracy of throw (long, short or wide), ability to acutely side step to the left or step up (push off) in the pocket, or bootleg, QB sneak or play action to the left (try to find the last time Schaub ran one to the left).
Thanks for the info, I'll be looking.
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Old 01-19-2013   #19
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

I'm afraid that this yrs version of Schaub is as good as it gets and that's not good enough to win a SB.

I would love to hear Docs thoughts on whether Schabs performance will be better or worse as time progresses. If the answer is WORSE then finding as QB for the future becomes priority #1. Unless they think either Yates or Keenum can be the QB of the future. (I cant see that happening.)
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Old 01-19-2013   #20
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Year in Review

I went back to the 2011 season to check out some of Schaub's throws.

You could see he really stepped into his throws on deep routes. He put a pass right on the money to Jacoby Jones last season in the Ravens game. Stepped into the throw, etc.

I went to look at the Colts games and had two deep balls in mind: The one at home when he underthrew Dre, and the INT where he underthrew Casey...he wasn't as deliberate on those throws when it comes to him stepping into them.

We're going to have to keep an eye on Matt next year to start the year. Also, if he's anything like he was in 2011 (after the bye...before the injury), we might not be in bad shape. Remains to be seen, because we won't know 'til we get past week 10 or so.

(Disclaimer: This is in no way an excuse for him, as I'm sure MOST of you know; Schaub was very average for 4 out of 6 weeks to end the year)
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