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Old 01-18-2013   #61
Honoring Earl 34
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
that's the problem with winning Super Bowls...you have to beat Great quarterbacks, great defensive units and well coached teams. All season long I kept hearing the Texans pat themselves on the back telling everyone how good they were...hopefully they do less patting next year and work in more out-coaching and out-playing great teams. To be a great team you gotta start beating great teams.
Ok ... sounds like we need three Battle Red days and two Liberty whites to get over the hump .
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Old 01-18-2013   #62
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
So it sounds like you need coaching also ?
I imagine that would help.
But there were coaches who won the SB that weren't considered great HC.
Some of them had been fired in their career.
Or there are coaches like Coughlin who didn't win it until his 12th or 13th year.
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Old 01-18-2013   #63
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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I imagine that would help.
But there were coaches who won the SB that weren't considered great HC.
Some of them had been fired in their career.
Or there are coaches like Coughlin who didn't win it until his 12th or 13th year.
Coughlin also took an expansion Jaguar team to the AFC Championship in record time.
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Old 01-18-2013   #64
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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I do think, if Kubiak and Smith and his crew review the tapes...and IF they see that Matt Schaub's inability to evade pressure and even make just some semblance of a play while on the run (and let's face it, he can't)...then I think there's nothing holding this team back from trading Schaub away.

I don't think it would happen, but frankly I do think (unless he has a trade clause I don't know about) that it IS an option if they wanted to rid the cap fallout and start over.

There are a handful of teams whom I think would consider taking Schaub and his salary. We might even have to sweeten the pot somehow, but if they wanted to get rid of Schaub and his contract...I think they could get it done.

But yet I also will say that will never happen. They will think they just need better OL protection for him, he just needs more talent at the WR and TE position. And better defense around him. They will talk themselves into ignoring the obvious, which is their standard operating procedure.
How much do we know about the contract and cap hit? Struggle to believe that 60m or whatever it is is just going to dissapear off the books 5 months into the contract, of course if the replacement is going to be on a rookie contract maybe you can take the hit over one or 2 seasons but I really don't see it happening. I think the best hope of improvement at the QB position on this team in the next 2 seasons is that Schaub can improve his overall fitness level with a full offseason and won't wither down the stretch. We can get it done with him in first half of the season form, not that it's ideal, but the pieces around him can help him through.

The Oline should improve with experience on the right side even if no signing can be made, but I think I'm right in saying Wade Smith is the only guy who's ever been plugged and played effectively first season since they started the project so who's to say a high draft pick would be any better immediately than the experience we've already built up?

Id quite happily see them take a QB early but I think we all know that there is as much chance of them taking a late pick just like with the Yates pick and seeing if he shakes out into backup quality down the line.

Get the feeling Yates was simply as well prepared as you could expect to take over last season but the issues will be too much now they have tape on him, Kubiak doesn't seem as enamoured as he was this time a year ago.
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Old 01-18-2013   #65
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Doug Williams was always and is now still underrated. People can say what they want about him but the Bucs didn't win till he got there and he was a very important part of that Redskins SB.

Now that quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles, teams are really starting to exploit the protections. The defenses around the league have been fined gargantuan sums of money for intimidating wr's and qb's for the last couple of years so I think the new era of arena league scoring is off and running.

I don't think teams "need" a running quarterback, but I think the old template isn't the only way to go anymore even though I think that Brady is going to win another one this year. Classic drop back guy isn't dead, but I think more and more quality offensive teams will start to look like the Kapernick 9ers, the RG3 Skins and Wilson Seahawks as the offensive weapons are all bubble wrapped and defenders intimidated with massive fines in this current Goodell era.
lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!

Classic Vinnyism, man!

We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.

Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.

Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.

The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.

However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.

The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.

I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.
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Old 01-18-2013   #66
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
lmao @ "quarterbacks are escorted down the field in their own personal Ref protected bubbles"!!!

Classic Vinnyism, man!

We see this "running QB" trend pop up in the NFL every 10 years or so, like it's something new. I remember when Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper were predicted to be the "new breed" and I read many articles that unequivocally stated that the age of the pocket passer was quickly coming to an end.

Then Brady and Manning had HoF careers that basically told all the "experts" to STFU.

Now we are seeing the hype cycle renew itself with these young guys.

The rules in the NFL are certainly being tilted to favor offenses these days, and teams that will consistently find success will find ways to exploit these rules to their advantage.

However, I think these 'new' proto-type QBs will still have to evolve into capable passers simply because of the oft-proved tendency that age slows everyone down to some extent. Either through injury or natural decline, these cats will have to win early in their careers as "running QBs" because the NFL has a way of weeding out QBs who cannot consistently read defenses and make plays from the pocket at some point in their careers.

The NFL figures gimmicks out. The run & shoot never lasted, the wildcat is now considered trick, and with running QBs, the NFL figured out how to isolate them and forced them to make plays with their arms.

I think these younger QBs have some tools not available to previous running QBs. They have grown up learning advanced systems and techniques much earlier in life than previous generations, so I think their ceiling could be higher in terms of potential. But they will have to still learn how to read defenses and make the passes for a time when their legs eventually wear out and cannot be their primary weapon.
Tebow , and VY couldn't touch Cam N , RG3 , and Colin K as far as passers go . You could throw Luck in there also because he's nowhere near a stiff as a runner .

I'm not sure about Cam and Colin but Luck and RG3 really seem to get the game and don't wan to tuck and run or dump it off every time .
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Old 01-18-2013   #67
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Tebow , and VY couldn't touch Cam N , RG3 , and Colin K as far as passers go . You could throw Luck in there also because he's nowhere near a stiff as a runner .
Which draft - 2011 or 2012 - do you think will ultimately be considered greater for QBs?

I think the 2012 has the potential to rival the 1983 draft. Big expectations, of course (considering the HoFer in that draft), but Luck, Wilson, and RGIII certainly look to have the skills.
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Old 01-18-2013   #68
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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I don't think it would happen, but frankly I do think (unless he has a trade clause I don't know about) that it IS an option if they wanted to rid the cap fallout and start over.
You have been here too long to not know this. Trading a player does not eliminate his cap fallout. The signing bonus falls entirely on the original team. Everything which has not already been prorated is accelerated and would fall on the Texans. That's $14 mil in dead money. Schaub will not be traded this year.
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Old 01-18-2013   #69
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Which draft - 2011 or 2012 - do you think will ultimately be considered greater for QBs?

I think the 2012 has the potential to rival the 1983 draft. Big expectations, of course (considering the HoFer in that draft), but Luck, Wilson, and RGIII certainly look to have the skills.
The Redskins need to stop using RG3 in a college offense 1st .

I think 1983 , 2004 , and 2012 are the best QB drafts . The 2004 QBs have won more SBs already than the 1983 class but the 83 guys appeared in a bunch .

http://www.quickfixsports.com/footba...-nfl-qb-class/

or kicks here is how all three NFL QB classes compare by career. I don’t know if there will ever be a class like 1983 when you see the sheer mass of what they’ve accomplished. If someone is to challenge, it will likely be the seasoned class of 2004 or the young guns of 2012. Only time will tell…
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Old 01-18-2013   #70
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Coughlin also took an expansion Jaguar team to the AFC Championship in record time.
While Coughlin deserves the praise, the way the expansion draft was set up at the time benefited both of those teams greatly.

Each had some 14 extra picks the first two years.

In their first year, the Jags roster included something like 6 first rounders, 5 second rounders, and 3 thirds and fourths each.
Add that to the number of veterans who were lower former draft choices and the extra picks they get in the second year, and that team can be built pretty quickly.

On top of that, somehow they managed to trade Rob Johnson (a 4th rounder that hardly played) for a first (with witch they picked Fred Taylor) and a 4th.

The credit for Selecting and/or trading those players should also be given to their GM, the scouting department, and the other coaches who may have had some inputs.
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Old 01-18-2013   #71
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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While Coughlin deserves the praise, the way the expansion draft was set up at the time benefited both of those teams greatly.

Each had some 14 extra picks the first two years.

In their first year, the Jags roster included something like 6 first rounders, 5 second rounders, and 3 thirds and fourths each.
Add that to the number of veterans who were lower former draft choices and the extra picks they get in the second year, and that team can be built pretty quickly.

On top of that, somehow they managed to trade Rob Johnson (a 4th rounder that hardly played) for a first (with witch they picked Fred Taylor) and a 4th.

The credit for Selecting and/or trading those players should also be given to their GM, the scouting department, and the other coaches who may have had some inputs.
If you are a non committed player drawing a paycheck , you can't play for Coughlin .
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Old 01-18-2013   #72
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Which draft - 2011 or 2012 - do you think will ultimately be considered greater for QBs?

I think the 2012 has the potential to rival the 1983 draft. Big expectations, of course (considering the HoFer in that draft), but Luck, Wilson, and RGIII certainly look to have the skills.
With the emergence of Kaepernick that helps 2011, but I think it remains to be seen how Tannehill & Brock WhatshisnamewhoplaysforDenver turns out as well to judge the 2012 class. Outside of Dalton, Kaepernick, & Cam it doesn't seem like the 2011 class has much more to offer.
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Old 01-18-2013   #73
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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If you are a non committed player drawing a paycheck , you can't play for Coughlin .
From what I read, because of those big contracts, the Jags slowly found themselves in cap hell, and had to dig themselves out of it painfully, thus the ensuing downturn.
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Old 01-18-2013   #74
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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From what I read, because of those big contracts, the Jags slowly found themselves in cap hell, and had to dig themselves out of it painfully, thus the ensuing downturn.
That and a surgeon ruined their best player .
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Old 01-18-2013   #75
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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This is what he days about dysert:

Overall
Dysert has decent size, a decent arm and decent productivity, but there is something about the sum being greater than the part. Dysert shows outstanding pocket poise and ability to throw with accuracy from tough angles and off-balance. Plays for a poor team and could show substantial growth with better talent around him. Has played under center and throws ball well while rolling right. Has to make tough throws due to pressure so needs to work on setting feet more often. He doesn’t let previous sacks cause him to lose focus in pocket. Looks like a solid value pick with starting potential.

Get er done Rick!
I saw his game against Ohio State, and he looked great. His throws were on target, but a lot of the passes were dropped by his receivers.
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Old 01-18-2013   #76
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

His name is Case Keenum!
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Old 01-18-2013   #77
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Doug Williams (my original favorite QB .. had his jersey when I was a kid) is still the only black QB to win the SB. That's gotta change soon too.
Affirmative action on SB winning QB's?
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Old 01-18-2013   #78
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Affirmative action on SB winning QB's?
Not really, I think you misunderstood what I meant by "gotta". I meant with more and more starting black QBs starting that's bound to change soon.

Besides Vince Young did say he was going to be the next black QB to win the SB and he's not getting any younger.
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Old 01-18-2013   #79
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Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

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Not really, I think you misunderstood what I meant by "gotta". I meant with more and more starting black QBs starting that's bound to change soon.

Besides Vince Young did say he was going to be the next black QB to win the SB and he's not getting any younger.
I think he lost his chance.
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Old 01-18-2013   #80
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Rep Power: 1227 Jules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respectedJules Winnfield is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Texans Won't Rule Out Drafting QB

how do most nfl franchises get superstar hall of fame level franchise qbs?


Answer: high end draft picks.


Why is this so hard to figure out for Gary Kubiak and Texan front office personnel?
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