Schaub + Receivers vs Other QBs and their Receivers

[AJ-80]

It seems that some fans are fine with Walter being the #2 guy next year yet again...

We have to get Shaub another guy. Tavon Austin. Robert Woods. Free Agent. I don't care what the upgrade is, just get an upgrade, its been overdue for about 4 years now.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Do you think these QBs would make Walter look like a stud?

I think those QBs and a few more would make Walter look better than he's looked here. That might be from the slot rather than #2, but I think Walter is in the #2 slot specifically because Kubiak wants him there. I see him as a valuable #3 WR/situational WR.

I've got issues with Kubiak's method of getting young, new guys into the lineup. No one would have known who Victor Cruze was if we drafted him.

I know some of us would give Kubiak the benefit of the doubt & helping these players to have long productive careers (whether for us or another team)..... but damn!!

Just off the top of my head, I don't think Schaubiak would have made the following mid-round WRs look as good as they've looked in their short time in the NFL:

TY Hilton
Randall Cobb
Brandon LaFell
Mike Williams
Jacoby Ford

Furthermore, I don't have any faith that Schaubiak could put together a collective WR corps like the Packers, Giants, Saints, Pats, Broncos, or Eagles. If you look at receiving targets, rather just the WR position, the Colts' look better than ours. I could probably go to NFL.com and look through some teams and find a few more, but I think the point is made.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Because we have brains and choose to use them.

Is that sarcasm, or are you insinuating I'm not using my brain, or both?

Seth is talking about blocking assignments, for the most part we've been picking up the assignments in both the run & pass game alright.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Furthermore, I don't have any faith that Schaubiak could put together a collective WR corps like the Packers, Giants, Saints, Pats, Broncos, or Eagles. If you look at receiving targets, rather just the WR position, the Colts' look better than ours. I could probably go to NFL.com and look through some teams and find a few more, but I think the point is made.

Nah, I don't know that your point is made. We've got less WR targets than other teams, is that because we have Walter playing the #2 position? Is that because Schaub isn't as good as other QBs?

sounds like your point is that Schaub isn't as good as other QBs. I it's because we have a situational slot receiver playing as our #2

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Rey

Because we have brains and choose to use them.

First off - Payne is one of my favorite all time Texans players and I think if he could be in 2002 form and play for Wade it would be tremendous. But fact is he never was on the same team as Schaub having been released a month prior. Other than guesswork he doesn't know what Schaub is allowed to do. If audibles were so easy to decipher from TV screens then they wouldn't trick D's now would they? We have absolutely no idea if when Arian motions out of the backfield that was the called play or an audible for instance. Some audibles are changing a route package - we won't know that. People need to stop acting like they know everything.

[leebigeztx]

There were alot of great takes on this Schaub thing.The way i see it, the texans cant do wrong by adding more explosive players around schaub. Adding more targets helps the next qb too just as it did Kaepernick. Since theyre pretty tight to the cap, they will have to use the draft. I like martin as a slot. Really by drafting martin you can see they were already thinking this way because he doesn't fit the profile at all. Drafting posey is also a guy who doesnt fit because of his problems he had. If they took a chance on a guy like posey, they can wait till the 2nd and draft Darick Rodgers from Tenn Tech who used to be the #1 at Tennessee. I would also bring back Casey and really just run alot of no huddle type stuff. Make the defense play vanilla and try to uptempo and get some cheap tds.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

There were alot of great takes on this Schaub thing.The way i see it, the texans cant do wrong by adding more explosive players around schaub. Adding more targets helps the next qb too just as it did Kaepernick. Since theyre pretty tight to the cap, they will have to use the draft. I like martin as a slot. Really by drafting martin you can see they were already thinking this way because he doesn't fit the profile at all. Drafting posey is also a guy who doesnt fit because of his problems he had. If they took a chance on a guy like posey, they can wait till the 2nd and draft Darick Rodgers from Tenn Tech who used to be the #1 at Tennessee. I would also bring back Casey and really just run alot of no huddle type stuff. Make the defense play vanilla and try to uptempo and get some cheap tds.

I think they've been trying to address the WR position for years. Jacoby Jones was just one of many WRs we've brought in to compete for a spot on the team. Many just didn't make it. Some of the older vets, didn't pan out for one reason or another. Some guys like LeStar Jean got hurt & Dorin Dickerson also didn't work out.

Devier Posey was a nice risk/rewards pick & looked like he was coming along until this achilles thing, & I also like the production we got out of Martin & the fact that he got a lot of playing time early.... just didn't work out for whatever reason.

We can (& I do) question Kubiak's reasoning for keeping guys off the field, but big picture, he's been doing a great job of putting together a winning tradition/organization.

We didn't win the Super Bowl in 2011, or 2012, but to a (wo)man everyone in here thought we should have & that says a lot for how far we've come.

Can Schaub & Kubiak get us there? Who knows. Those questions will fuel the debates here all summer long. I'm looking forward to next season, to see how they respond.

[Rey]

Cak and tk, you guys can bury your head in the sand all you want.

Seth has played a lot of football and some things are just obvious. Before Seth said what he said, myself and plenty others have said the same thing. I understand you guys are the ultimate homers and you're going to come to the defense of any perceived negativity about the team, but if you think schaub is making the same types of audibles and checks at the line as Brady, you're mistaken.

And with that, I'm done with the schaub talk for a while. He's a different version of John kitna or Chad Pennington.

We're stuck with that for a while and it's nothing we can do about it. Hopefully they can build a greT offense around him to make him look better since apparently the coach and qb can't make guys look better.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Cak and tk, you guys can bury your head in the sand all you want.

I criticize the team. I criticize the coaches. I'm not burying my head in sand. I think most here are letting their emotions get the better of them. I think a lot of people are seeing 3 or 4 young dynamic QBs have success in the NFL & letting it change what they know to be true, what has been proven time & time again. Those guys are going to have to get better, those guys are going to have to change their game if they are going to have long term success in this league.

Originally Posted by Rey

Seth has played a lot of football and some things are just obvious. Before Seth said what he said, myself and plenty others have said the same thing. I understand you guys are the ultimate homers and you're going to come to the defense of any perceived negativity about the team, but if you think schaub is making the same types of audibles and checks at the line as Brady, you're mistaken.

I'm sorry if I led you to believe that I think Schaub is making the same audibles at the line that Brady is. I don't think that is even remotely close to reality.

I meant to say that I don't know Matt isn't making the same kind of adjustments in blocking calls as that is what Seth was talking about in the instance I was talking about.

For most of the season, Matt was among the least sacked QB. Arian is the second leading rusher in the AFC.

Obviously something is working. Obviously the calls are being made. Matt's not using the hard count to make those calls.... Matt doesn't take as long at the line to make those calls.

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.

[AJ-80]

Matt Shaub has been a solid QB for a while. Only recently have the attacks on his play been justified.

One of my favorite Shaub plays. Of course he got a little help from Andre -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyVd4dqfT-8

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by AJ-80

Matt Shaub has been a solid QB for a while. Only recently have the attacks on his play been justified.

One of my favorite Shaub plays. Of course he got a little help from Andre -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyVd4dqfT-8

I don't think people really understand how hard it is to go from solid/good --------> great; whether we're talking about an individual position (qb) or as a whole team. It's 1 of the toughest transitions to make in sports.

[deucetx]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

I don't think people really understand how hard it is to go from solid/good --------> great; whether we're talking about an individual position (qb) or as a whole team. It's 1 of the toughest transitions to make in sports.

Very true. It's one reason I wasn't overly upset with the loss. I wanted to see them give their all which I think they did. After that I just came to realize we're simply not ready for them and we can't get to where we need until we are. From all that Gary has said he sees it too and understands it's the road we have to travel if we want the trophy. It all goes through those Pats.

So I am willing to be patient and I think the point of the thread is where they need to start when it comes to offense. Schaub most likely is who he is. We can't change it and no one else is coming. So give him playmakers and guys who will enhance his play.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

I don't think people really understand how hard it is to go from solid/good --------> great; whether we're talking about an individual position (qb) or as a whole team. It's 1 of the toughest transitions to make in sports.

I agree completely. It almost seems mental more than anything else.

Good teams can be depended on to beat the teams they are supposed to beat. Good teams can consistently get to the playoffs. This is where the Texans are right now.

Some teams languish in that good zone and never grow out of it. They are talented enough to go to championship games, but for whatever reason(s), they seem to always fail. Think of the Falcons before this season. They could not even win a playoff game before 2012, even with HFA.

I think the transition from good--->great is what the Texans have to figure out now. If/when that happens, I think this team has enough talent to do some great things.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

I don't think people really understand how hard it is to go from solid/good --------> great; whether we're talking about an individual position (qb) or as a whole team. It's 1 of the toughest transitions to make in sports.

I think what you're saying is true. But how do you explain Green Bay being a top tier team for the last three years, when they were a joke in Bret Favre's last 2 or 3?

How do you explain San Francisco's back to back NFC Championship games & the Jets back to back AFCCG appearance as well.

There's a way to go from 0-90 in a hurry. There's got to be a way from 60-90.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Good teams can be depended on to beat the teams they are supposed to beat. Good teams can consistently get to the playoffs. This is where the Texans are right now.

ooh.... This is where we hope the Texans are right now, but we don't know. I'm not normally a "Let me see them do it first" guy, but this time, I think it's prudent to wait & see.

The Jets got to back to back AFC Championship games & they proved to be the biggest paper tiger of all. Under Kubiak, we went 6-10, 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, 6-10, 10-6, 12-4

I hadn't figured out if we're headed for a 6-10 year, or a 14-2 season. & if we're headed for a 6-10 season, hold on to your seats.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

I think what you're saying is true. But how do you explain Green Bay being a top tier team for the last three years, when they were a joke in Bret Favre's last 2 or 3?

How do you explain San Francisco's back to back AFC Championship games & the Jets back to back appearance as well.

There's a way to go from 0-90 in a hurry. There's got to be a way from 60-90.

In Brett's last couple of years in GB i know they went 13-3 and to the playoffs at least once....and seeing as they had his heir apparent on the bench for a few years before Favre left and they won the SB in Rodgers' 3rd year as a starter i believe, i think it's pretty clear that that team wasn't devoid of talent by any stretch.

SF was also not devoid of talent. Most of everyone that's making it happen for them right now was drafted or brought in under Singletary's regime...All they had to do was make a coaching change to someone 1/2 way competent and you have what you have with them now.

it's not going from 0-90 mph in 1 season that i'm talking about. Its about sustaining that 90 mph over a significant amount of time like the Patriots have....like the Steelers have like the Colts have......all teams who went to the SB at least twice in the past decade and who were constant SB contenders...That is what makes great teams great.

[Jules Winnfield]

this is freaking david carr all over again.


we have to give matt perfect protection, perfect set of wide recivers, perfect defense behind him, perfect everything.

You people will never learn.

If you're still asking question like whether or not our qb is good enough and he is past 30 years of age already, guess what?

he aint the answer.


why are houstonians so apprehensive about moving on from matt schaub?

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

this is freaking david carr all over again.


we have to give matt perfect protection, perfect set of wide recivers, perfect defense behind him, perfect everything.

You people will never learn.

If you're still asking question like whether or not our qb is good enough and he is past 30 years of age already, guess what?

he aint the answer.


why are houstonians so apprehensive about moving on from matt schaub?

The chance to "move on" was not resigning him earlier, but with a salary cap it makes moving him on a moot point since we are paying him so much money going forward. We are stuck with Schaub for the near future. You are the one that is not realistic about how you just dump him. I'd like to move on too...but I know that isn't realistic.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

ooh.... This is where we hope the Texans are right now, but we don't know. I'm not normally a "Let me see them do it first" guy, but this time, I think it's prudent to wait & see.

The Jets got to back to back AFC Championship games & they proved to be the biggest paper tiger of all. Under Kubiak, we went 6-10, 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, 6-10, 10-6, 12-4

I hadn't figured out if we're headed for a 6-10 year, or a 14-2 season. & if we're headed for a 6-10 season, hold on to your seats.

No, we are back-to-back division leaders and have two seasons of going to the playoffs and winning a game in each post-season.

We can see consistency based upon history. This is not predictions, but just stating the obvious fact that the Texans are a good team right now. Not great, but good.

I do not have to hope for what has already happened.

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

this is freaking david carr all over again.

Pure unadulterated hyperbole.

we have to give matt perfect protection, perfect set of wide recivers, perfect defense behind him, perfect everything.

You people will never learn.

If you're still asking question like whether or not our qb is good enough and he is past 30 years of age already, guess what?

he aint the answer.


why are houstonians so apprehensive about moving on from matt schaub?

You do realize that we are stuck with Schaub for at least two more years?

You do realize that fans have absolutely no influence on how the team operates or who they pick as players?

Your post seems to be directed at the Texans front office but is posted on a fan message board.

Perhaps you want to send your thoughts to bob.mcnair@houstontexans.com?

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield

this is freaking david carr all over again.


we have to give matt perfect protection, perfect set of wide recivers, perfect defense behind him, perfect everything.

You people will never learn.

If you're still asking question like whether or not our qb is good enough and he is past 30 years of age already, guess what?

he aint the answer.


why are houstonians so apprehensive about moving on from matt schaub?

Where do u get this crap from? Noone on either side of this debate has said anything remotely close to what you're saying in this post. Everyone wants an upgrade at Qb...it's just how we go about it and who we think would be an upgrade is where the disagreement lies.

& this isn't anywhere close to the David Carr situation except for the fact that people like you think that this teams failures are 90% b/c of the qb and people like us who know better. David Carr was a disaster in every sense of the word at qb. Yet and still, even when we upgraded from him with Schaub, we still needed serious upgrades on the O-line and in the WR core and on the defensive side of the ball before we became competitive. We're not calling for "perfection" as you claim, We're calling for better than mediocore to below average play from all of our trouble spots; just like you are with Schaub.