Assessment on TJ Yates

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Fiddling around with semantics is fun. But I recommend you get rid of the fiddle and upgrade to a stradivarius.

One or the other is true, has to be.

Either Schaub is good enough to win 12 games, the division, & a play off game


Or Kubiak's a genius. If you don't think Kubiak is a genius, then it doesn't make sense to give up on Schaub.




I don't think Kubiak is a genius.

[infantrycak]

Just occurred to me to quickly look at regular season wins against playoff teams. Looked it up by QB but it could be listed as team/coach/QB:

Wins and losses v. playoff teams.

Andrew Luck 3 and 2
Tom Brady 3 and 3
Aaron Rodgers 2 and 4
Peyton Manning 1 and 3
Joe Flacco 1 and 3
Matt Schaub 3 and 3

So shocker - good teams have difficulty playing each other.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Just occurred to me to quickly look at regular season wins against playoff teams. Looked it up by QB but it could be listed as team/coach/QB:

Wins and losses v. playoff teams.

Andrew Luck 3 and 2
Tom Brady 3 and 3
Aaron Rodgers 2 and 4
Peyton Manning 1 and 3
Joe Flacco 1 and 3
Matt Schaub 3 and 3

So shocker - good teams have difficulty playing each other.

The Texans lost their last three against playoff teams in the last four games. The end of year slide for two consecutive years is a major concern. Is it tactical, is it a breakdown in leadership, is it something the staff can fix?

[Fili]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Just occurred to me to quickly look at regular season wins against playoff teams. Looked it up by QB but it could be listed as team/coach/QB:

Wins and losses v. playoff teams.

Andrew Luck 3 and 2
Tom Brady 3 and 3
Aaron Rodgers 2 and 4
Peyton Manning 1 and 3
Joe Flacco 1 and 3
Matt Schaub 3 and 3

So shocker - good teams have difficulty playing each other.

Same record as Tom Brady. Better record than Rodgers and Manning. HE IS ELITE!

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

He was not a platoon player. Moreover, he had the profile and legacy of a game manager. If Griese were available in the draft next year, I would have no doubt we would draft him.

Nagging injuries for Griese, and Kubiak/Smith did not see it coming with Schaub?

Forget about the platoon part; We don't even know who was responsible for drafting Griese. What we know is that whatever little he had success with was with the Broncos.

Schaub is a different player now as opposed to the one who first came here; he doesn't hold onto the ball too long anymore; he doesn't have that long winded motion anymore.

Rosenfels went somewhere and did a little something.

But back to the adaptation part (which I was never engaged in to start with), some 3-4 years ago, I suggested on this very board that I hope Kubiak befriends Art Briles, and that them two can have shop talk about the game of football.

All for the single reason that Briles was willing to try a lot of different things.
(I don't think people take to that idea back then, what can I say?)

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Last question, what other instances in your life did you need to wait eight years, to make a call on ditching or keeping an asset, of which you have been front and center as an observer.

Makes me ponder why do we allow our best practices, gut checks and scaling calls, learned from professional and personal experiences, be trumped by football fanaticism in our collective dialogue.

Yeah I have. For example (and this goes back to how much control people have as well) I had a very long discussion over drinks with the owner of the firm. He said we were two of the only three lawyers at the firm he would have go to trial or argue an appellate case. We then discussed many of the rest of the firm and I recommended replacing several - in the end he did not.

From the football world, Tom Landry who was a tremendous innovator and football genius didn't have a winning season until his 7th season. I would have hated to have seen him fired in that 8th off-season cutting off what was about to be 20 straight years of winning with 18 playoff appearances.

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

The Texans lost their last three against playoff teams in the last four games. The end of year slide for two consecutive years is a major concern. Is it tactical, is it a breakdown in leadership, is it something the staff can fix?

I seriously doubt it was tactical. Last year there was a QB issue. I have seen nothing to indicate a breakdown in leadership. I don't know the reason for the slide other than as you mention it was a stiff part of the schedule.

Originally Posted by Fili

Same record as Tom Brady. Better record than Rodgers and Manning. HE IS ELITE!

I made no such claim. I hate such foolish responses. If I had picked out mediocre QBs you would have said "see you are only comparing him to game managers" or some other way to dismiss reality.

[76Texan]

And something else I remember.
Quite a few people was diminishing the idea of Art Briles doing something at Baylor, taking his gimmick offense from UH to the Big 12.

I know a lot of those people that cheer for RG III now.

And how about Sumlin who bypassed the Big 12 to go straight to the SEC.
Now Johnny Football is all the rage.

You see, Sumlin could have used Keenum the same way when he first got to UH, but he didn't.
He saw that Keenum is at his best making other players look better, and that's by distributing the football.

I think all coaches know that, and so they work out certain "philosophy" to best suit some of the key players on the team.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

The Texans lost their last three against playoff teams in the last four games. The end of year slide for two consecutive years is a major concern. Is it tactical, is it a breakdown in leadership, is it something the staff can fix?

I don't think the two years compare well. In 2011 you had an injury to the starting QB and the backup QB that thrust a 5th round draft pick into the mix. The offense went conservative while trying to get as much into Yates head as possible in the time available. In 2012 we collapsed down the stretch with most of the offense apparently healthy.

The two collapses don't look very much alike to me.

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by Fili

Same record as Tom Brady. Better record than Rodgers and Manning. HE IS ELITE!

The team is elite. He is a great 15 yd. passer and a terrible 30+ yd. passer (with ZERO mobility).

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

I don't think the two years compare well. In 2011 you had an injury to the starting QB and the backup QB that thrust a 5th round draft pick into the mix. The offense went conservative while trying to get as much into Yates head as possible in the time available. In 2012 we collapsed down the stretch with most of the offense apparently healthy.

The two collapses don't look very much alike to me.

Before each respective slide there was a seven and six game winning streak respectively. Back to back years, where did the team's onions go in 2011, and how does that happen the following year with so much on the line? It boggles my mind.

[GP]

If I wasn't making a good-tasting steak for 6 or 7 years.........

....I'd probably change what type of spice rub I used, and I might even re-consider my grill and if I need to do something different there.

I wouldn't keep tossing a bland, unappetizing steak onto my dinner table.

But we all know people who do JUST that. People who suck at grilling, but they are legends in their own minds. I fear we have a head coach who thinks he's an awesome head coach. And his family, God love them, they just pat dad on the shoulder and say "Thanks for the steak, dad!"

Then one day the kids grow up, eat at their friends' house, and they sit there stunned. "How did you DO this? It's. Amazing...." And it dawns on them, "My dad's grill skills suuuuck."

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by GP

If I wasn't making a good-tasting steak for 6 or 7 years.........

....

Are you telling me you haven't had fun over the last 6 or 7 years? You haven't enjoyed yourself once after winning the division the last two years running?

You didn't crack a smile after winning our first two play off games?

This steak may not be among the best in the world, but it's far from bland & tasteless.

[GuerillaBlack]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Are you telling me you haven't had fun over the last 6 or 7 years? You haven't enjoyed yourself once after winning the division the last two years running?

You didn't crack a smile after winning our first two play off games?

This steak may not be among the best in the world, but it's far from bland & tasteless.

I smiled after clinching the division the first time and winning that playoff game. I smiled again this year after winning the division again. The playoff game against Cincy this year though, there was no smiling. The team should not even have been in that situation in the first place. I would have smiled had they beaten New England though. Yates would have given us the better chance. He wouldn't have thrown the ball away three times after evading the rush. I doubt he would have fumbled the ball after evading the rush, with no one around him, because he was so nervous.

There needs to be a change at QB, but there won't be. Status quo lives on.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

I smiled after clinching the division the first time and winning that playoff game. I smiled again this year after winning the division again. The playoff game against Cincy this year though, there was no smiling. The team should not even have been in that situation in the first place. I would have smiled had they beaten New England though. Yates would have given us the better chance. He wouldn't have thrown the ball away three times after evading the rush. I doubt he would have fumbled the ball after evading the rush, with no one around him, because he was so nervous.

There needs to be a change at QB, but there won't be. Status quo lives on.

There is zero you have to back up that claim. He may not have thrown the the ball away 3 times after evading the rush.....but he may have thrown a pick after evading that rush, which he showed a propensity to do in last year's game against the Ravens. Last year at around this time everyone was saying that we would've won that game if we had Schaub... You guys are just grasping at straws at this point.

[GuerillaBlack]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

There is zero you have to back up that claim. He may not have thrown the the ball away 3 times after evading the rush.....but he may have thrown a pick after evading that rush, which he showed a propensity to do in last year's game against the Ravens. Last year at around this time everyone was saying that we would've won that game if we had Schaub... You guys are just grasping at straws at this point.

There is zero evidence saying you could disprove that claim. And last year he was a rookie. Schaub is a nine year vet, yet he still can't tell the he evaded the rush, has no one within seven yards of him, and can make the throw downfield. You almost felt sorry for Schaub watching him last Sunday. He just can't do it. He's a backup. And some people were saying we would have won it with Schaub. After seeing Schaub now, in multiple games where the bright lights were on him, it is clear he can't deliver.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

There is zero evidence saying you could disprove that claim. And last year he was a rookie. Schaub is a nine year vet, yet he still can't tell the he evaded the rush, has no one within seven yards of him, and can make the throw downfield. You almost felt sorry for Schaub watching him last Sunday. He just can't do it. He's a backup. And some people were saying we would have won it with Schaub. After seeing Schaub now, in multiple games where the bright lights were on him, it is clear he can't deliver.

Sure there is...Yates' record in the playoffs is the exact same as Schaubs...1-1. He didn't exactly light it up against the Ravens in the playoffs either.....In his limited time this year he's got 1 int and 1 fumble. There isn't anything about what yates has done to this point in his career that says that this team would've fared any better against the Patriots with him at the helm than Schaub..

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Before each respective slide there was a seven and six game winning streak respectively. Back to back years, where did the team's onions go in 2011, and how does that happen the following year with so much on the line? It boggles my mind.

I understand. Losing those QB's in 2011 though seems to me like the obvious reason for that late season collapse whereas there was no similar issue this year.

Now if we do something similar in 2013 without losing Schaub late in the year then I'd say it's reasonable to surmise that we would have folded up early in 2011 even if Schaub had not been hurt and a pattern emerges but the QB injuries in 2011 cloud the issue for now I think.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by GuerillaBlack

The team should not even have been in that situation in the first place. I would have smiled had they beaten New England though.

Completely agree with this thought. No argument here.


Well... I believe if we were as good as our record showed, we wouldn't have been playing Wild Card weekend. However, I think it's obvious that we weren't that good.

As far as changing the QB, I agree that is one option. Another option would be to get back to where we were when our QB performed well. Let's get back to an up tempo offense, let's get back to 4 & 5 wide sets. I think that is more probable than finding that QB that can play at a higher level.