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Old 01-15-2013   #21
Double Barrel
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Default Re: Regression?

We were 11-1 at one point. I don't care about the margin of scores in those wins. This ain't the BCS. "Quality of wins" means nothing in the NFL.

11-1 was progression, regardless of how the season ended.

The Texans now need to learn how to finish seasons strong. They have learned how to win. They beat teams they were supposed to beat, and they only lost to playoff teams. When compared to previous Texans teams, this is improvement.

True regression to me is missing the playoffs this season. It's clear. It's not debatable. But that did not happen. We made the playoffs, won a game, and then lost to one of the best franchises of the last decade. Tom Brady is 17-6 in the playoffs. The Patriots have left a lot of teams feeling defeated in the playoffs over the years. There is no shame in it. The Texans just have to learn how to consistently compete at that level.

Chastising fans for being excited about 11-1 is kinda' silly. It was an exciting time to be a Texans fan. It was fun. You know, the whole point of being a fan. While I had concerns how how they were winning, the point was that they were on the winning side of things. That, in and of itself, absorbs a lot of criticism.
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Old 01-15-2013   #22
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
We were 11-1 at one point. I don't care about the margin of scores in those wins. This ain't the BCS. "Quality of wins" means nothing in the NFL.

11-1 was progression, regardless of how the season ended.

The Texans now need to learn how to finish seasons strong. They have learned how to win. They beat teams they were supposed to beat, and they only lost to playoff teams. When compared to previous Texans teams, this is improvement.

True regression to me is missing the playoffs this season. It's clear. It's not debatable. But that did not happen. We made the playoffs, won a game, and then lost to one of the best franchises of the last decade. Tom Brady is 17-6 in the playoffs. The Patriots have left a lot of teams feeling defeated in the playoffs over the years. There is no shame in it. The Texans just have to learn how to consistently compete at that level.

Chastising fans for being excited about 11-1 is kinda' silly. It was an exciting time to be a Texans fan. It was fun. You know, the whole point of being a fan. While I had concerns how how they were winning, the point was that they were on the winning side of things. That, in and of itself, absorbs a lot of criticism.
Excellent post.

Part of being a fan should be enjoying success when it happens. As a fanbase, we've been so traumatized over the years that we've lost sight of that.
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Old 01-15-2013   #23
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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Excellent post.

Part of being a fan should be enjoying success when it happens. As a fanbase, we've been so traumatized over the years that we've lost sight of that.
There's not a fan base out there that doesn't ***** about their team.

Being traumatized is a myth.

If your team fails to meet expectations you are going to have a bunch of people complaining.
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Old 01-15-2013   #24
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
There's not a fan base out there that doesn't ***** about their team.

Being traumatized is a myth.

If your team fails to meet expectations you are going to have a bunch of people complaining.
Being traumatized is not a myth.

I have lived in two markets with historically successful teams - Dallas and San Francisco. The vibe of the fan bases is very different. Yes there is complaining but the overall attitude is much more resilient and optimistic. Here in Houston there is a culture of pessimism and being cursed.
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Old 01-15-2013   #25
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Being traumatized is not a myth.

I have lived in two markets with historically successful teams - Dallas and San Francisco. The vibe of the fan bases is very different. Yes there is complaining but the overall attitude is much more resilient and optimistic. Here in Houston there is a culture of pessimism and being cursed.
The AFCC in....79?....and 35-3. That's why.
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Old 01-15-2013   #26
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Default Re: Regression?

I don't really think it's regression; I think we just cannot beat a team with a superstar QB who is on his game. We beat Denver early in the season, but Peyton wasn't really 100% yet, at least not in all ways. He was gradually playing better. Luck is going to be a serious, long-term problem if we don't get that behind us, but you all know that.

Most of the time, our offense is not explosive enough to win high-scoring games, AND THERE WILL BE HIGH-SCORING GAMES--YOU CANNOT EXPECT A DEFENSE TO COMPLETELY SHUT THAT OFF IN EVERY GAME ALL THE TIME. You have to score in this league, and you have to replace whoever is not getting the job done so that you can score.

Hey, if we want to win wild-card play-off games, this plan is a good one--not so much for SBs.
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Old 01-15-2013   #27
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Were people saying this when we were 10-1? Nope, not a word. The majority were claiming that we were going to the SB and that we were the team to beat. Now our team regressed as a whole. Lol!
Guilty...
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Sorry, but they did not regress. They improved, but they just collapsed at the end of the season on offense completely. They had bad coaching is what happened. They had a great team that began to believe their own hype and didn't handle adversity well at all. Those are things that the HC has to change.
Did you see Danieal Manning running back the opening kick-off? That was the Texans...

We just ran out of gas.
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Old 01-15-2013   #28
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Default Re: Regression?

I wouldn't call it regression. I would call it hitting our ceiling with Shaub and Kubes.

Simply put, as is, we are not a team that can compete with prolific offenses such as the Pats and Packers. Sure we can beat the teams we are suppose to beat, but that doesn't mean much when you are bounced out of the playoffs by an elite team with an elite QB
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Old 01-15-2013   #29
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
I wouldn't call it regression. I would call it hitting our ceiling with Shaub and Kubes.

Simply put, as is, we are not a team that can compete with prolific offenses such as the Pats and Packers. Sure we can beat the teams we are suppose to beat, but that doesn't mean much when you are bounced out of the playoffs by an elite team with an elite QB
That's not a problem with Schaub and Kubiak, that's a problem with the defense.

Our defense generally played well against QBs who hesitated or who were slow making their reads. But against QBs they couldn't shake, QBs that made quick reads and good decisions, we got our asses kicked. Except for Watt, we were not consistently getting a good pass rush. Our OLBs (and our ILBs) have to do a better job of getting pressure and forcing bad throws. When you do get to someone like Rodgers, you can't let him get away like Barwin did.

Our defense has to play better against elite QBs. Because even if you DO have an elite QB on your side, if your defense can't stop the guy on the other side, you're going to lose anyway. Brady and Belichik have been finding that out the past few years. Peyton and the Colts found that out several times against Brady and the Patriots and then against Brees and the Saints.
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Old 01-15-2013   #30
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Default Re: Regression?

For me it was seeing more of what we could be and then being forced to recognize what we are. Facts (as I see them):

We did not have Schaub last few games of 2011 due to injury. We did not have Schaub last few games of 2012 due to shellshock.

Neither Wade Phillips or Gary Kubiak has a game plan for more than 2-3 games that takes the opponent out for entire game.

We play to not lose rather than to win and rarely deviate regardless of score.

If our star RB fumbles he can be removed from game. If our star WR or QB or LT drop an in the gut pass or fumbles or allows a sack that could cause QB to leave game or causes a fumble, these three do not leave game.

On defense or returns we do not have a policy of "don't stand there, block someone."

In response to OP, I think we have a very good team that needs to add quality depth that can give 75% of what an injured starter would have given. We are not there yet. Good news is we now have a perrenial playoff contender. Bad news we don't have a final two team. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Houston Rockets.
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Old 01-15-2013   #31
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Default Re: Regression?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deucetx View Post
Thread is about team progress and such so those aren't Matt's stats. Those are Texans offensive stats.
Sorry to be contrary but your post has passing and rushing stats individually so passing stats would be Matt's correct? Don't think Yates ten yards effect our passing stats. So if not Schaub's passing stats, whose are they. No arguing just trying to understand you comment. maybe if you posted link to your stats, I can understand.
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Old 01-15-2013   #32
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
I would call it hitting our ceiling with Shaub and Kubes.
Why do they have to be joined at the hip .... why cant one get credit for taking the other , dispite his limitations and making a three time pro bowler out of him.

You morons act like Gary is under center ..... going fetal when a defender gets near or .... fumbling off his own thigh.


After seeing what he was able to get out of a noodle armed statue , wouldnt you like to see what he could do with a real talent at the position?
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Old 01-15-2013   #33
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
There's not a fan base out there that doesn't ***** about their team.

Being traumatized is a myth.

If your team fails to meet expectations you are going to have a bunch of people complaining.
I agree with probably 95% of your takes, but have to disagree with this one.

As previously mentioned, 35-3. Before that date, I LIVED with the Oilers. My moods on Mondays were based on the performance of the Oilers the previous day. Yeah, it's a somewhat superficial existence to allow a sporting event to dictate my emotions, but I was young and full of hardcore belief as I lived vicariously through my football team.

After 35-3...well, immediate aftermath was a two week depression. Not kidding at all, I was down and out. That experience sucked it out of me. I was shell shocked as a football fan. It was mind-boggling to see such a powerful team melt down in less than two quarters. That stuff is never supposed to happen, which is why it is considered such a landmark game. I still get a knot in my stomach when I see it on NFL Network. Sometimes I watch the first half, but most of the time I change the channel.

Long shot after 35-3 was a complete paradigm shift. I will never put myself in the position to have so much of my emotions riding on something that I have not even the slightest control. Which is honestly a good thing. It's not healthy. It's probably some sort of mental condition to be that way, so invested in a sports team that your mood and emotions are influenced by it. It worked out okay, but a big part of my cynical nature as a Houston football fan comes from the Oilers, both as a kid and as a young adult.

So yeah, traumatized defined as "subject to lasting shock as a result of an emotionally disturbing experience" is not a myth. Might be overstated at times, but serious reflection on my own life is that, on some levels, it can be traumatic if you allow too much of your self to be absorbed in it.

I truly think the reason why Houston fans did not respond to their team moving like Cleveland fans did was 35-3. Well, that and an a-hole owner, but mostly just the monumental failure at Buffalo.
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Old 01-15-2013   #34
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Default Re: Regression?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
That's not a problem with Schaub and Kubiak, that's a problem with the defense.

Our defense generally played well against QBs who hesitated or who were slow making their reads. But against QBs they couldn't shake, QBs that made quick reads and good decisions, we got our asses kicked.
I think it's in their heads. They hear & believe all the stuff the fans believe, "ooo he's Tom Brady.. ooo he's Aaron Rogers."

Big deal. All we've got to do is beat Wes Welker, Shane Vareen, & Aaron Hernandez...... & that's the way they need to look at it. Brady can't protect himself (Jj Watt showed us that) & he can't catch his own passes. & he don't run the ball.
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Old 01-15-2013   #35
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Default Re: Regression?

Defensively the loss of Ryan's through trade and Cushing through injury regressed the defense.

Last year there was some swagger and attitude, I felt the defense could hold a team to below 20 points. I was more worried about if the offense could put more than 20 points up. (when injuries hit).

This year I honestly didn't relax much on gameday second half of the season. I didn't know what team was going to show up.

Offensively, I dont know what is going through Kubiak's mind. When this offense was on attack mode(granted it was comeback against Detroit and the Jags) and Schaub was in rhythm it seemed ,to me, that passing set the running game up nicely.
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Old 01-15-2013   #36
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Default Re: Regression?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I disagree with that.

I think we had a tougher schedule this year than we did last year. Just by record, our opponents this year were 127-129 while last year they were 116-140.

We had a 4-4 record against teams with winning records this year and those teams had a combined record of 88-40 and a 3-2 record against winning teams last year and they had a combined record of 64-32.

Last year was the year where we were feasting on weak opponents.
We actually had the toughest schedule in the AFC this year, believe it or not.
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Old 01-15-2013   #37
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Default Re: Regression?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro View Post
No regression in the win column, but ceiling has been reached. The last six games of last year and the last six games of this year speak for themselves.
^This. Schaub has reached his ceiling and I can't see that he's going to get any better at 32. It's not like all of a sudden he's going to develop a rifle arm or become a mobile QB. So, in that regard I'm not expecting any sort of improvement from Schaub other than making better reads which he has shown he can't do consistently over the course of his career as a Texan. He has thrown crucial back breaking interceptions over and over for many number of years and that's a trend I don't see changing. Also, maybe he can develop better pocket presence and get some help from a psychologist to overcome his fear of getting knocked down. But I'm expecting Schaub to be well...Schaub again next year. Therefore, other facets of the team has to improve drastically for us to progress and not be on this regression path.

The most important thing the Texans can do to improve the team is for Gary "The Offensive Genius" Kubiak to realize that his offense has been figured out. Yeah he's limited by Schaub's lack of mobility and decreasing arm strength, but he HAS to modify his offense. He has to implement more of an uptempo style. Like I said in another thread, evolve or die.

Lastly, the defense needs to get better. As is right now, we're a good defense but we rely on the spectacular plays too often and depend on Watt to make plays for us too often. We need to become a defense like the Ravens and 49'ers who can just lineup and straight up stop your offense dead with no special or gimmick plays needed. Basically, we need to have a stonewall type of defense where big plays such as interceptions, sacks, and force fumbles are not the only things we can rely on.
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Old 01-15-2013   #38
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Default Re: Regression?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
Defensively the loss of Ryan's through trade and Cushing through injury regressed the defense.

Last year there was some swagger and attitude, I felt the defense could hold a team to below 20 points. I was more worried about if the offense could put more than 20 points up. (when injuries hit).

This year I honestly didn't relax much on gameday second half of the season. I didn't know what team was going to show up.

Offensively, I dont know what is going through Kubiak's mind. When this offense was on attack mode(granted it was comeback against Detroit and the Jags) and Schaub was in rhythm it seemed ,to me, that passing set the running game up nicely.
How about the Broncos game earlier this year?
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Old 01-15-2013   #39
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Default Re: Regression?

Broncos game. Defensively, still had our Swagger, Manning was still eating used to the offense.

Where Matt pulled those long bombs out,I don't know but I love it,(where that kind of playcalling or reads go)Maybe teams needed more Gamefilm on our right side of the line, not sure. foster ad 25 carries for 105 yards, Tate wasn't in Kubiak's doghouse and ad 8 carries For 26.
Down he stretch I'd say no way we beat the ponies (if we played)

But I did enjoying kicking their ass in Denve
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Old 01-15-2013   #40
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Default Re: Regression?

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Being traumatized is not a myth.

I have lived in two markets with historically successful teams - Dallas and San Francisco. The vibe of the fan bases is very different. Yes there is complaining but the overall attitude is much more resilient and optimistic. Here in Houston there is a culture of pessimism and being cursed.
Ya, what HJam72 said, plus the fact many of us grew up with the Oilers never reaching perfection. Our team's history doesn't even include an AFC Championship title.
It's much easier to have faith in a team that's reached and won a Super Bowl or two. Cowboys have, Forty Niners have.
In regards to the regression Vs. progression, I can say I was a whole lot more excited after last year's play off run Vs. this years Play Off run. I sincerely believed the Texans would go all the way this year, or at the very least further.
I don't have the same optimism for next year that I did the previous season.
My opinion, just seems like other teams, especially the elite teams, have figured out Kubiak. I believe the system relies on a QB that has no scrambling ability, which makes us somewhat predictable. We've all seen what a QB like Kaepernick/Wilson can do for your offense. Just opens up so many doors and keeps the defense on their heals. Texans don't have that. So often if Foster can't gain decent yardage our offense becomes very predictable and ineffective.
The defense also collapsed this last month or so. Gave up way too many points. Is Wade a one season wonder like some have suggested?
Honestly after Schaubs interception this last game I couldn't watch anymore.
Had some buddies, who live all over the U.S., ask me WTH was your team doing huddling up down by so many points with time ticking away? Your QB was looking over at the sideline as if he were lost, does your team not have a hurry up offense?
I know Kubiak will be back. I know Schaub will be back. Personally, I believe both have reached their pinnacle. I would love to be wrong.
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