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Old 01-15-2013   #21
Surreal McCoy
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Only if our owner is Bud Adams.

OR.

If we have a decade of 2nd round losses.

Take this objectively. Take the Texans out of the equation and think about other teams.

Would you have fired Mike Smith at Atlanta after getting to the playoffs several years in a row and losing their first game? Would you have fired Bill Cowher after years of not being able to "win the big one"? Would you have fired Tony Dungy for the same thing?

Before people jump on me and say "you're not mentioning Kubiak in the same sentence as Bill Cowher and Tony Dungy", yes... I am.

McNair wants to follow the Pittsburgh model. And part of that model is being patient with your coaches and general manager and allowing them to assemble the talent and build a franchise that will have a certain mind-set. The Steelers were very patient with Cowher. A lot of people in Pittsburgh wanted him fired because he couldn't win the big game.

We're a young organization and a young team. We're building tradition. We've had 3 winning seasons out of the last 4. We've been to the playoffs 2 seasons in a row and won our division 2 seasons in a row. We've gone 2-2 in playoff games the past 2 years. We took a slight step back this year (even though we have a better record). We have to learn how to improve as we re-tool and prepare for the next season.

Blowing this up now because some fans are frustrated with playcalling is... well... it's not smart and very short sighted.
Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...

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Old 01-15-2013   #22
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
No I think Kubiak will get them to an AFC Championship, even if by accident or inspite of his play calling...

Any further than that? Very seriously doubt it...
I guess you missed all the draws and screens the frickin Pats ran on Sunday .... It aint the play calling , its the inability of a couple players to execute. I wont name names. Hey should I throw it away on 3rd down ?! Or try to make a play! You think a fumble off my thigh is a good idea ?!

Beletrick has "All World" Tom Freakin Brady .... Kubiak is stuck with the "elite" Matt Club Foot Noodle Arm Schaub.
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Old 01-15-2013   #23
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...

Im 44 .... that team has had four coaches in my lifetime , one of them retired when I was ..... One.



But .... if you recall what Bob McNair said , if there was a team he would like to emulate , it would be the Steelers because of their stability.

Can you argue with the amount of Lombardi Trophy's they have accumulated ?!
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Old 01-15-2013   #24
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Im 44 .... that team has had four coaches in my lifetime , one of them retired when I was ..... One.



But .... if you recall what Bob McNair said , if there was a team he would like to emulate , it would be the Steelers because of their stability.

Can you argue with the amount of Lombardi Trophy's they have accumulated ?!
No. Which is why McNair is infinitely better than Bud, Jerrah, Al, Daniel, etc etc,...
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Old 01-15-2013   #25
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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No. Which is why McNair is infinitely better than Bud, Jerrah, Al, Daniel, etc etc,...
I rep'd you for the last post .... gotta spread it around.


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Old 01-15-2013   #26
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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I rep'd you for the last post .... gotta spread it around.


^^^ Somebody get him for me^^^
I hooked him up for you, bro.
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Old 01-15-2013   #27
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
Dungy did get fired for that reason though. Could get Tampa to the playoffs, but couldn't win the big one. Lost in the playoffs in 99-2000-2001 then got let go and went to Indy and Gruden came in, took Dungy's players and won a Super Bowl...
Would you have fired Dungy? Would you have hired him at Indy and given him another 5 years of not winning it all?

Personally, I wouldn't have fired Dungy at Tampa Bay. I think that worked for a year and then Tampa Bay sunk back into the depths.

I think Dungy was setting up a team with a winning tradition. And I think he went on to do the same in Indy, although having Manning didn't hurt. And I think when Dungy was fired by the Buccs, they kinda ruined that whole concept of getting organizational structures in place that have persistence and will last.
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Old 01-15-2013   #28
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Would you have fired Dungy? Would you have hired him at Indy and given him another 5 years of not winning it all?

Personally, I wouldn't have fired Dungy at Tampa Bay. I think that worked for a year and then Tampa Bay sunk back into the depths.

I think Dungy was setting up a team with a winning tradition. And I think he went on to do the same in Indy, although having Manning didn't hurt. And I think when Dungy was fired by the Buccs, they kinda ruined that whole concept of getting organizational structures in place that have persistence and will last.
Excellent post- Dungy's approach was one of slow but steady improvement, getting the right players, and establishing a system. Cjuckie only got lucky because he was able to manipulate a qb TO ACHIEVE FOR ONE YEAR.
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Old 01-15-2013   #29
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by BullNation4Life View Post
Ugh, so this is what Chicago Bears fans felt with 9 years of Lovie Smith....
yep, pretty much. Or think the Bengals fans with Marvin Lewis. BUT, at least Kubiak has won a couple of playoff games. And a couple of division "championships". So we've got that.

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Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...

uhhh....Cowher got his team to the Super Bowl in his fourth season. Are we really going to act like this is nothing because they lost it? Most Texans fans (including me) would give Kubiak a life contract for taking a Houston football team to the Super Bowl.

I'm not a Cowher Power fan. I like the coach, but I think he's been out of the NFL for too long.

However, I think what he did with the Steelers was pretty cool. He took a team that had been struggling for years to the playoffs in his first year as HC (only one of two coaches that took his team to the playoffs for the first six years of his tenure).

What really gets me, though, is this record: Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points. Let's not act like this is nothing. That's a pretty awesome record.

Gary Kubiak is 61-55 after seven seasons. Not the same at all. I'm not slamming Kubiak, but I think it's a little disingenuous and hard on Texans fans to act like they do not have a leg to stand on.
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Old 01-15-2013   #30
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Would you have fired Dungy? Would you have hired him at Indy and given him another 5 years of not winning it all?

Personally, I wouldn't have fired Dungy at Tampa Bay. I think that worked for a year and then Tampa Bay sunk back into the depths.

I think Dungy was setting up a team with a winning tradition. And I think he went on to do the same in Indy, although having Manning didn't hurt. And I think when Dungy was fired by the Buccs, they kinda ruined that whole concept of getting organizational structures in place that have persistence and will last.
Can not rep this enough. It's not just about one year, it's about having a shot every year, or at least most years. That's what great teams do.
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Old 01-15-2013   #31
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
uhhh....Cowher got his team to the Super Bowl in his fourth season. Are we really going to act like this is nothing because they lost it? Most Texans fans (including me) would give Kubiak a life contract for taking a Houston football team to the Super Bowl.
Right. DB, I understand what you're saying here and it's sensible when taken out of context. The context I'm referring to is for years, everyone, especially this forum, have repeated to a man, "Kubiak will never get this team to the playoffs. I just want one playoff game before I die". Then, when it became obvious last season we would indeed see our first playoff game the goalposts were shifted, "We will never win a playoff game with Kubiak". This year, the new mantra is, "The only thing that counts is the SB". I think it's rather an exaggeration to imply TT would be happy if the Texans simply made the SB - don't you? There would be loads of people moaning that this "was our only chance" and "Kubes blew it". As confirmed by the TT faithful, the only thing that matters is winning it all - the view from 2nd place is the same as last place. There is an agenda, but its a rather silly one not based on facts. The team is progressing, whether folks want to admit it or not.


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What really gets me, though, is this record: Cowher's team had compiled a record of 108–1–1 in games in which they built a lead of at least eleven points. Let's not act like this is nothing. That's a pretty awesome record.
I think that's a pretty impressive record. Remember, we're trying to build from scratch where Cowher had all the essential tools to support him...and it still took 14 years.
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Old 01-15-2013   #32
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Right. DB, I understand what you're saying here and it's sensible when taken out of context. The context I'm referring to is for years, everyone, especially this forum, have repeated to a man, "Kubiak will never get this team to the playoffs. I just want one playoff game before I die". Then, when it became obvious last season we would indeed see our first playoff game the goalposts were shifted, "We will never win a playoff game with Kubiak". This year, the new mantra is, "The only thing that counts is the SB". I think it's rather an exaggeration to imply TT would be happy if the Texans simply made the SB - don't you? There would be loads of people moaning that this "was our only chance" and "Kubes blew it". As confirmed by the TT faithful, the only thing that matters is winning it all - the view from 2nd place is the same as last place. There is an agenda, but its a rather silly one not based on facts. The team is progressing, whether folks want to admit it or not.
yeah, I see where you are coming from. People's expectations tend to change with success. It's not necessarily good or bad, but most likely a by-product of human nature.

I see an upward trend with Kubiak's tenure. It's slow and gradual, but onward and upward so far.

Some folks think this year was basically the same as last, but I disagree. I see 'baby steps' with this franchise (maddening for the impatient fan).

The Texans are still doing "firsts". 2012 was the first time they were front runners in the NFL. For the first time, NFL analysts were considering our team to be one of the best (up until the Pats game and the aftermath). It was the first time they had HFA within their reach, even if they failed to capture (maybe a first for next year?).

So yeah, they are progressing, just a bit slower than a lot of fans would like. And when compared to other teams that seemingly do it overnight, it feels like wait for water to boil.

I feel confident in thinking that Kubiak will get us to at least an AFC championship game. I cannot really say what I think after that point, but I think we will be playoff team for many years to come. And playing in January is always good, even if we feel like perpetual underdogs to the top teams.

p.s. I agree with you in general with the franchise that Cowher inherited when compared to the 2-14 expansion team that Kubiak took over. Both fruit, but apples and oranges.
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Old 01-15-2013   #33
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Default Re: Second round losses ultimate downfall of Kubiak?

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Originally Posted by Surreal McCoy View Post
Took Cowher 14 years to do anything in Pitts with the very best scouting network, GM, and organisation that had an established winning tradition behind him.

lol Can you imagine the tantrums this lot would have!!!! Holy...


We're halfway there.
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