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Old 01-14-2013   #81
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Not a single one. He's a project, nothing more. He's going to get the same chance any other UDFA QB would get. He either cuts it and sticks or he doesn't. I'm not all that concerned with Keenum. I'd like him to work out because everybody likes an underdog but I have no illusions about his chances. I think if there was nothing there at all then he wouldn't be on the practice squad. He'll have to take another step forward next season to keep that spot. Unless he does something dramatic and unexpected he probably won't be here past the 2013 camp.

Yates did have interest from a few other teams. He is still a project type pick. I think anybody taken after the 4th round is a project and I'd lump them all together for the most part. 5th round to UDFA isn't that big a change. Just a bunch of guys with various knocks on them.

I'm of course referring to QB's.
Profootball Reference. Com has a few very nice features; one of them let you look up all the QBs that had ever been drafted.

You'd be surprised how many low rounders had become starters; guys drafted in the 5th, 6,7,8,9 round.

Doug Flutie was drafted in the 11th round, and of course, Warren Moon went undrafted.
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Old 01-14-2013   #82
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Profootball Reference. Com has a few very nice features; one of them let you look up all the QBs that had ever been drafted.

You'd be surprised how many low rounders had become starters; guys drafted in the 5th, 6,7,8,9 round.

Doug Flutie was drafted in the 11th round, and of course, Warren Moon went undrafted.
I know and I understand. I'm not saying that these 5-UDFA guys aren't all good enough. Lots of reasons why a QB can end up down there. A few inches in height, a system he plays in, you know what I'm talking about. Guys that aren't in that measurable box sometimes have intangibles that get overlooked.
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Old 01-14-2013   #83
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

Yates is lucky he played last year and not this year. Understanable Kubiak dumbed the offense down for the rookie so he wouldnt get overwhelmed. But we also had Foster and Tate to help the rookie.
This year,we couldn't run the ball consistently.
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Old 01-14-2013   #84
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Yates is lucky he played last year and not this year. Understanable Kubiak dumbed the offense down for the rookie so he wouldnt get overwhelmed. But we also had Foster and Tate to help the rookie.
This year,we couldn't run the ball consistently.
dumbed the offense down?? i specifically remember kubiak saying they werent holding back anything from the playbook and he wanted yates to take it all in.. the offense was not dumbed down..
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Old 01-14-2013   #85
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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I know and I understand. I'm not saying that these 5-UDFA guys aren't all good enough. Lots of reasons why a QB can end up down there. A few inches in height, a system he plays in, you know what I'm talking about. Guys that aren't in that measurable box sometimes have intangibles that get overlooked.
Gotcha.
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Old 01-14-2013   #86
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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dumbed the offense down?? i specifically remember kubiak saying they werent holding back anything from the playbook and he wanted yates to take it all in.. the offense was not dumbed down..
I may have misread it somewhere. I thought I heard someone say that they scale the offense down. Of course my memory isn't too good
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Old 01-14-2013   #87
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Here's my deal with Yates.

Sure, you can look at last year. Cheer about the accomplishments, of beating the Falcons, and the Bengals twice. But what about the losses? He barely did anything against a young Carolina team, who only had 1 win on the road, and then he could only put up 13 points against the worst team in the league, the Colts. If I'm correct, didn't they have a really bad defense that year too? Of course he went out early against Tennessee, and we won't count the Ravens game either, since it was the Ravens. Although, he did throw three picks in that game, and stared down Johnson the entire game.

But no, let's look at his wins. He had a couple of bright spots against the Falcons. Hitting a 50 yard pass to Johnson in stride looked good. Putting up 17 was pretty nice. Although, that victory really belonged to the defense and the fans. Defense held matty ice to 10 points, and the fans were loud as hell in that game. To say Yates won that game by himself, is just overlooking other factors.

Then you have the two games against the Bengals. For starters, the fact that we won that first game was nothing short of a miracle. It was awesome, don't get me wrong, but Yates and the offense couldn't do anything until the second half. He redeemed himself with that magical drive, so I'll give him credit for that. Aside from that, he was lackluster in that game. In the playoff game, he played better, but still made what could have been costly mistakes. Defense played lights out in that game, and Foster ran like a mad man.

Yates did what he needed to do, but when it comes to being a starter, he won't cut it. Now, you can look at last year and say he played like a rookie because he was. Sure, I'll take that. What about this year?

Well, in the two games that he saw action, he ran in a TD against NE and their backups. Aside from that, he had two turnovers in total. A fumble off of a blindside hit, and an INT against GB. Now you can counter by saying the games were a lost cause, but let me counter with this. When you're a backup, you do whatever it takes to get on the field and stay on the field. That is how you separate the leaders from the rest of the pack. Even if it is a blowout, or you're subbing for an injury, you do whatever it takes to get noticed in a good way. Play as hard as you can, and do what you can to bridge the gap. Coaches will notice, whether it is your team, or another team that is in need of a starting QB. Look at SF, or Seattle. the 49ers had just signed Smith to a deal this offseason, and was doing well. But one injury was all it took for Kapernick to get his shot. He played as hard he could, and look at it now. Although Smith is healthy, it is obvious who the 9ers are sticking with. Same with Wilson in Seattle. Big trade for Matt Flynn, and he doesn't even play a snap this year. Yates does not have that ability in him. He has little awareness, is mistake prone, and just doesn't have that sense of urgency.

I know we all have a special place in our hearts for Yates. I know after Schaubs performance today, many of you will want Yates to replace him. But that just isn't going to happen. Yates is, at best, a backup. He is not the future of this team, and he will not be starting over Schaub next season. Take it for what it is, but that is how it will most likely play out.

Personally, if anyone is the future, I have two scenarios on how that will play out. A). Draft a first round QB in the 2014 draft and groom him for a couple of seasons or B.) Keenum will surprise everyone. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me is Keenum unseated Yates as the backup next season. He would give this offense a new look if he could get some playing time from Schaub. He can run, throw bombs, and has good accuracy. His only issue is he is a little guy. He would need to bulk up a bit, if he is ever serious about getting a starting job.
Not to pile up on Yates (because I once thought Bucky Richardson was the answer and feel a bit jaded), but for a "play action offense", he doesn't sell the "play action" all that well....

*********

In terms of creating "competition" for the QB spot??? I'm all for it!! Schaub shouldn't be anointed shyte, irrespective of his contract...... See San Francisco and Seattle.
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Old 01-14-2013   #88
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Do you really think either of the backups "have it" and our coaches just ignore it or other teams?
Just look at Arian Foster. The year he got his chance to shine, both
Steve Slaton and Ben Tate went down in preseason. It was these
scenarios that FORCED Kubiak to give Foster a shot against the Colts
on opening day.

Unless Schaub faces Haynesworth again, better players will languish on the
depth chart at the QB position so long as Kubiak is the head coach.
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Old 01-14-2013   #89
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Just look at Arian Foster. The year he got his chance to shine, both
Steve Slaton and Ben Tate went down in preseason. It was these
scenarios that FORCED Kubiak to give Foster a shot against the Colts
on opening day.

Unless Schaub faces Haynesworth again, better players will languish on the
depth chart at the QB position so long as Kubiak is the head coach.
Foster started the last two games of 2009 and did a great job. He didn't go into 2010 languishing on the depth chart.
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Old 01-14-2013   #90
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Foster started the last two games of 2009 and did a great job. He didn't go into 2010 languishing on the depth chart.
TJ Yates did a good job last year. Schaub is healthy, so Yates rides the pine.
My point was, Foster didn't start 2010 because he performed better
than Slaton and Tate. He started because both those guys hit
IR before the start of the season. Kubiak was blown away by
what he had in Foster after the Colts game, just like the rest of us were.

Gary is not a proactive coach. He will wait until the decision to
stay pat is removed from his hands, just like the scenario that brought
Wade Phillips here.
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Old 01-14-2013   #91
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Foster started the last two games of 2009 and did a great job. He didn't go into 2010 languishing on the depth chart.
Granted but for most of 2009 he did sit behind three guys who weren't really getting it done and who spent the season fumbling and bumbling along all under 4 yards a carry, 11 fumbles and an ill-fated interception between them. Arian practiced in front of the coaches all year long but it wasn't until Slaton had to be shut down for the season (mercifully) that Foster finally got some attention. Maybe he wasn't being enough of a Pro for Gary's taste but I think we probably could have used him a lot sooner than he came on board. He's head and shoulders above anyone else we had then and another win might have put the Texans into the playoffs two years sooner than they ended up getting there. I'm just saying I kind of see his point. Gary will play who Gary wants to play and sometimes I suspect he's willing to cut off his nose to spite his face in that regard.
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Old 01-15-2013   #92
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Granted but for most of 2009 he did sit behind three guys who weren't really getting it done and who spent the season fumbling and bumbling along all under 4 yards a carry, 11 fumbles and an ill-fated interception between them. Arian practiced in front of the coaches all year long but it wasn't until Slaton had to be shut down for the season (mercifully) that Foster finally got some attention. Maybe he wasn't being enough of a Pro for Gary's taste but I think we probably could have used him a lot sooner than he came on board. He's head and shoulders above anyone else we had then and another win might have put the Texans into the playoffs two years sooner than they ended up getting there. I'm just saying I kind of see his point. Gary will play who Gary wants to play and sometimes I suspect he's willing to cut off his nose to spite his face in that regard.
I think that was a big part of it. In fact, I recall Foster himself allude to it. He had to grow up. And sitting behind guys he knew he should be beating out helped do that.

Sometimes you have to set a standard, an expectation, and hold EVERYONE to it; or it means nothing.
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Old 01-15-2013   #93
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by DexmanC View Post
Just look at Arian Foster. The year he got his chance to shine, both
Steve Slaton and Ben Tate went down in preseason. It was these
scenarios that FORCED Kubiak to give Foster a shot against the Colts
on opening day.

Unless Schaub faces Haynesworth again, better players will languish on the
depth chart at the QB position so long as Kubiak is the head coach.
Foster lined up as the starter in the first pre season game. I am almost certain Kubiak knew who he wanted starting at that point, and it wasn't Slaton or Tate.
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Old 01-15-2013   #94
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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So you're saying that they believed Bradie James was better than Ryans, that Rashad Butler was better than Winston, and Caldwell was better than Brisiel? Or that letting those guys go in favor of their less skilled backups was doing the best thing to help the team win? Not sure I'm following you here. Or maybe you're saying that those players had to go because of cap issues and the guys in charge got into those cap issues because that would help the team win.

Or maybe we can just all admit that the guys in charge are fallible and make mistakes, and we're capable of seeing those mistakes.
No Bradie is not an overall better player than Meco, but at the same time, Meco was only playing every other down in our system. It was a move that needed to be made, since we were paying a lot for him.

Brisiel was good, but do you really think anybody would have been on board with matching the offer that Oakland made? Sure, we could have got him before he hit FA, but I feel more comfortable with Jones lining up, as opposed to Caldwell.

Winston, while he was good, he drew the most penalties on the line. That's something we can benefit by getting away from.

I find it funny that two of the three replacement players you listed didn't even play the majority of the season. Although they were listed as the starters in the preseason, Jones and Newton stepped up and took that job away from both of them. As long as these guys improve, while remaining at a low cost, I will be happy. I enjoy building a team through the draft, and not because the analyst have been saying that about us over the past couple of seasons. Building through the draft not only gives you good young talent, the talent is also cheap! Look at Watt. The dude will be making millions on his next deal, and he has earned it. But right now, even though he is playing awesome, he only makes like 500K. Perfect for our team, just in case we need to break the bank. In this case, We will be breaking the bank for Watt. I want to have a successful team for a long time, and the more money you have combined with smart draft choices, can give you a good team for a while. That's just how I see things.
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Old 01-15-2013   #95
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

I hope TJ is rdy cause next year if schuab falters hes the first one to come in and see if he can light a spark
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Old 01-15-2013   #96
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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dumbed the offense down?? i specifically remember kubiak saying they werent holding back anything from the playbook and he wanted yates to take it all in.. the offense was not dumbed down..

Did you not watch the Yates' starts? If Kub didn't dumb it down Yates did
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Old 01-15-2013   #97
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Granted but for most of 2009 he did sit behind three guys who weren't really getting it done and who spent the season fumbling and bumbling along all under 4 yards a carry, 11 fumbles and an ill-fated interception between them. Arian practiced in front of the coaches all year long but it wasn't until Slaton had to be shut down for the season (mercifully) that Foster finally got some attention. Maybe he wasn't being enough of a Pro for Gary's taste but I think we probably could have used him a lot sooner than he came on board. He's head and shoulders above anyone else we had then and another win might have put the Texans into the playoffs two years sooner than they ended up getting there. I'm just saying I kind of see his point. Gary will play who Gary wants to play and sometimes I suspect he's willing to cut off his nose to spite his face in that regard.
This is all true. He totally did that with Chris Brown the RB as well. Brown never could amount to anything over here, and Gary would force that guy on this team at the end of a game inside the 5 relentlessly.
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Old 01-15-2013   #98
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

Is anyone sick of the media saying Matt needs more weapons? Wth? I agree a solid No 2 would be nice but Matt has weapons. He has a line. Guy choked simple as that.
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Old 01-15-2013   #99
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Is anyone sick of the media saying Matt needs more weapons? Wth? I agree a solid No 2 would be nice but Matt has weapons. He has a line. Guy choked simple as that.


We have half a line lets not kid anyone. Also if Dre is your only real threat on the WR core it lessens his and the teams ability to run at full pace.
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Old 01-15-2013   #100
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Default Re: Assessment on TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by 417Texan View Post
Is anyone sick of the media saying Matt needs more weapons? Wth? I agree a solid No 2 would be nice but Matt has weapons. He has a line. Guy choked simple as that.
Are you saying that he doesn't?

After AJ there is......


Martin?
Jean?
Walter?


I don't really care how much you hate the current QB. Any QB on this team would need new weapons. These WR's are terrible, and that wasn't hard to see at all before the season, unless you were one of the people that automatically entrenched Martin and Jean as valid play makers because of what they did in the pre season. Nothing inaccurate at all by saying Schaub needs more weapons. That is as plain as day.
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