Where does Matt rank with QBs in playoffs

[powda]

Schaub ranks exactly 16th. Utterly average.

[thunderkyss]

I think Schaub has shaken off his "play offs" jitters.

After this game, a lot of people are going to change the way they think about Matt Schaub.

Think of a less athletic, much smarter Jake Plummer.

[powda]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Think of a less athletic, much smarter Jake Plummer.

If that was meant to make some of us feel better it didn't.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by powda

If that was meant to make some of us feel better it didn't.

That offense averaged 27-30 ppg. Same as us, before New England. Lately, we've been scoring 17 ppg or so.

I know the Pats score about 32 ppg, but that's for the bulls on parade to sort out. If we score high 20's, low 30s our offense is giving us a shot.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

If you consistently throw for less than 200 yards per game, you suck as a QB. Flacco has played in 10 playoff games. He's thrown for over 200 yards in 3 of them. He averages 180 yards per playoff game.

Just pulling a name out of the air... Chad Pennington. He was an OK QB in his day and his day wasn't too long ago. He averaged just over 230 yards per game in the playoffs. He was not a great QB.

Like I said earlier in the thread, Flacco has all the tools to be a great QB except for the stuff between his ears and the stuff in his heart. If you hit him a couple of times, he starts getting inaccurate and he starts making bad decisions. Flacco is like Sanchez with an arm.

Going into the playoffs if I had to choose between Schaub and Flacco, I'd take Schaub. Schaub's going to complete a higher percentage of passes and he's going to make better reads.

yardage as a benchmark is foolish- there are QB's every week that throw for 300-400 yds and lose
There have been 14 500 yd passers in NFL history- 6 of them lost. Weehaw

Matter of fact- the last 5 QB's to go over 400 yds passing are a combined 1W- 4Losses (Last 2 were Romo vs Brees in OT on Dec 23rd) Out of the last 10 Qb's over 400yds, they had 3 Wins and 7 Losses.

Saying a Qb needs to throw for a lot of yards is like saying, "Our defense only gives up 250 yds a game" but the other teams score 30 pts oevery game. Yards get you nothing. Its about scoring, game management, running the ball and not turning the ball over.
BTW- Schaub sure did make a good read on that pass to the guy wearing the other teams colors for a Pick 6.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

yardage as a benchmark is foolish- there are QB's every week that throw for 300-400 yds and lose
There have been 14 500 yd passers in NFL history- 6 of them lost. Weehaw

Matter of fact- the last 5 QB's to go over 400 yds passing are a combined 1W- 4Losses (Last 2 were Romo vs Brees in OT on Dec 23rd) Out of the last 10 Qb's over 400yds, they had 3 Wins and 7 Losses.

Saying a Qb needs to throw for a lot of yards is like saying, "Our defense only gives up 250 yds a game" but the other teams score 30 pts oevery game. Yards get you nothing.

And, yet, how many quarterbacks have thrown for less than 200 yards in the SB in the past 10 years? 2. Roethlisberger in a win where he played like dogcrap and Rex Grossman in a loss where he played like dogcrap.

Looking at the yardage a QB puts up can be deceiving. Losing QBs frequently have to throw more than winning QBs.

But I wasn't saying you have to throw for over 300 or 400 yards. I was putting a LOWER bound. And throwing for less than 200 yards on a consistent basis is an indication of a bad QB any way you slice it. Any QB who's throwing for less than 200 yards isn't contributing to the team.

But, btw, in games where he's thrown for over 400 yards, Matt Schaub is 3-1. What's Flacco's record in games where he's thrown for over 400 yards? Oh, that's right, 0-0.

Its about scoring, game management, running the ball and not turning the ball over.
BTW- Schaub sure did make a good read on that pass to the guy wearing the other teams colors for a Pick 6.

So... what you're saying is that having a good quarterback doesn't matter as long as he doesn't make too many mistakes. Which, I guess, that's true when your QB sucks like Flacco has over the course of his career.

And, yeah, Schaub made a bad throw. But at least in his first playoff game, he completed over 75% of his passes. How many times has Flacco done that in the playoffs? Oh, yeah, never.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

And, yet, how many quarterbacks have thrown for less than 200 yards in the SB in the past 10 years? 2. Roethlisberger in a win where he played like dogcrap and Rex Grossman in a loss where he played like dogcrap.

Looking at the yardage a QB puts up can be deceiving. Losing QBs frequently have to throw more than winning QBs.

But I wasn't saying you have to throw for over 300 or 400 yards. I was putting a LOWER bound. And throwing for less than 200 yards on a consistent basis is an indication of a bad QB any way you slice it. Any QB who's throwing for less than 200 yards isn't contributing to the team.

But, btw, in games where he's thrown for over 400 yards, Matt Schaub is 3-1. What's Flacco's record in games where he's thrown for over 400 yards? Oh, that's right, 0-0.



So... what you're saying is that having a good quarterback doesn't matter as long as he doesn't make too many mistakes. Which, I guess, that's true when your QB sucks like Flacco has over the course of his career.

And, yeah, Schaub made a bad throw. But at least in his first playoff game, he completed over 75% of his passes. How many times has Flacco done that in the playoffs? Oh, yeah, never.

Steelers didn't need Ben to throw for 300 yds in the first SB- they had a running game and a defense.

So why did you write this=> "Looking at the yardage a QB puts up can be deceiving." then write this ' Any QB who's throwing for less than 200 yards isn't contributing to the team. '

Make up your mind.

You think Flacco sucks- whoopee. I just proved where you intial theory was incorrect. But its ok. Schaub will take you to the promised land.

[EllisUnit]

Oh lord i feel like we are playing the ravens this weekend after reading this thread.

Neither one has won a SB, Flacco in more tries then Schaub but still both have zeros. The play-offs dont mean **** unless you bring home the Lombardi. Sooooo both have no ranking IMO

[klockWork]

1) Rodgers
2) Brady
3) Manning
4) Kaepernik
5) Wilson
6) RG3
7) Luck
8) Flacco
9) Schaub
10) Ponder

Flacco could be at best #4 if he played for Texans and Schaub would be a #10 If he'd played for Ravens.

Edit* I can't see Schaub on that list since the Ravens won't be in the PA w him as the QB this season.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

Steelers didn't need Ben to throw for 300 yds in the first SB- they had a running game and a defense.

So why did you write this=> "Looking at the yardage a QB puts up can be deceiving." then write this ' Any QB who's throwing for less than 200 yards isn't contributing to the team. '

Make up your mind.

You think Flacco sucks- whoopee. I just proved where you intial theory was incorrect. But its ok. Schaub will take you to the promised land.

There's no logical problem with the two statements I made.

Yardage CAN be deceiving. Do you understand the difference between "CAN" and "ALWAYS IS"? I gave an instance where a big total yard number is deceiving (when a QB is having to throw to come back) and a case where it ISN'T deceiving (when a QB habitually throws less than 200 yards.) These are two different situations and scenarios.

You want to have a QB who CAN throw for a lot of yards if he has to. Flacco's not a guy you want to have to depend on to throw for yardage or for completion percentage. He's the kind of QB whose team has to prop him up. Not unlike Roethlisberger in his first SB.

The Steelers won that SB with Roethlisberger DESPITE Roethlisberger. He sucked in that game. Just like Flacco has sucked in most of his playoff appearances.

[76Texan]

Advanced NFL Stats has an unique approach to stats.
It adds the element of probability.

For example WPA/Game is the Win Probability Added Value of a player (in this case, the QB). It gives you how much quality you get from your QB that helps you win the game.

When you look at this number (since a QB might be injured and didn't play the whole season), it shows that Schaub have had more better games than Flacco since 07, even though Flacco did have a couple of years where he was ahead of Schaub in this measure.

However, keep in mind that WPA is somewhat dependent on the defense and ST play.

There's another measure called EPA/P (Expected Point Added per Play).
It tries to depict how each QB's individual play helps add points to his team.
By this measure, Schaub has been consistently much better than Flacco.

These don't tell you how good the protections are or how much the receivers help or hurt the QBs.

No matter what, it gives you a broad view of the abilities of these guys if you add a whole career together.

On these basis, Schaub >>> Flacco.

You can google that website and check it out for yourself.

Have fun. =P

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

There's no logical problem with the two statements I made.

Yardage CAN be deceiving. Do you understand the difference between "CAN" and "ALWAYS IS"? I gave an instance where a big total yard number is deceiving (when a QB is having to throw to come back) and a case where it ISN'T deceiving (when a QB habitually throws less than 200 yards.) These are two different situations and scenarios.

You want to have a QB who CAN throw for a lot of yards if he has to. Flacco's not a guy you want to have to depend on to throw for yardage or for completion percentage. He's the kind of QB whose team has to prop him up. Not unlike Roethlisberger in his first SB.

The Steelers won that SB with Roethlisberger DESPITE Roethlisberger. He sucked in that game. Just like Flacco has sucked in most of his playoff appearances.

If I take out Joe's 1st game in the playoffs for the simple fact the game plan was protecting him (his 17th game as a rookie) and his 1st game the next year where he only had to throw 10 passes vs a NE in a beatdown (Ray Rice goes 83 yds on the 1st play from scrimmage for a TD), then Joe averages 205 yds a game.

In those 1st couple of years, Joe didn't have a guy like AJ he could throw to either- Derrick Mason et al do not send fear into a secondary.

But again, all the numbers can be manipulated for benefit of each point of view.
But again

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Advanced NFL Stats has an unique approach to stats.
It adds the element of probability.

For example WPA/Game is the Win Probability Added Value of a player (in this case, the QB). It gives you how much quality you get from your QB that helps you win the game.

When you look at this number (since a QB might be injured and didn't play the whole season), it shows that Schaub have had more better games than Flacco since 07, even though Flacco did have a couple of years where he was ahead of Schaub in this measure.

However, keep in mind that WPA is somewhat dependent on the defense and ST play.

There's another measure called EPA/P (Expected Point Added per Play).
It tries to depict how each QB's individual play helps add points to his team.
By this measure, Schaub has been consistently much better than Flacco.

These don't tell you how good the protections are or how much the receivers help or hurt the QBs.

No matter what, it gives you a broad view of the abilities of these guys if you add a whole career together.

On these basis, Schaub >>> Flacco.

You can google that website and check it out for yourself.

Have fun. =P

Hmmm pretty interesting especially considering Flacco has had that Dominant ravens defense his who career. And the texans up until recently have been average at best except 2010 when we were horrid.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

Hmmm pretty interesting especially considering Flacco has had that Dominant ravens defense his who career. And the texans up until recently have been average at best except 2010 when we were horrid.

And poor special team play, too!

And how many games did AJ miss? O.D.?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

Hmmm pretty interesting especially considering Flacco has had that Dominant ravens defense his who career.

Don't forget Ray Rice & one of the better LTs in the league.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Don't forget Ray Rice & one of the better LTs in the league.

Fster is a lesser back than Ray Rice?

Better LT's??? You mean the one wh got switcched to Right Tackle a few weeks ago because he sucks?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by handswarmer

Fster is a lesser back than Ray Rice?

Better LT's??? You mean the one wh got switcched to Right Tackle a few weeks ago because he sucks?

Do they teach reading comprehension up there?

Originally Posted by EllisUnit
Hmmm pretty interesting especially considering Flacco has had that Dominant ravens defense his whole career. And the texans up until recently have been average at best except 2010 when we were horrid.

Schaub has not had Foster or a dominant LT his whole career. Flacco has had Rice & a dominant LT his whole career. That's why he could win play-off games throwing for less than 200 yards a game.

Flacco had no more affect on those games than Schaub did in our 2011 Wild Card win over Cincy.

[handswarmer]

Originally Posted by Fiddler

Do they teach reading comprehension up there?




Schaub has not had Foster or a dominant LT his whole career. Flacco has had Rice & a dominant LT his whole career. That's why he could win play-off games throwing for less than 200 yards a game.

Flacco had no more affect on those games than Schaub did in our 2011 Wild Card win over Cincy.

I'll help you out here since you don't watch too many Ravens games

2008- Ray rice splits carries with Willis MaGahee and LeRon McLain

Flacco has had only one more year with Rice than Schaub has had with Foster (09)

Which dominant LT are you talking about?

Jon Ogden retired in 07, Jared Gaither was the LT in 08 and 09- Oher was drafted in 09- in 10 he was switched to LT from RT- he struggled so bad that before the '11 season, the Ravens went out and signed Brynat "Love Boat" McKinnie who played LT all last year. Then he got benched for Oher- I have no idea why.

Only recently has McKinnie played LT- like the last 2 games

[gafftop]

I hope Schaub can play as good as Flacco did today.
Thank you Ravens for giving us a chance to host anothe playoff game.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by gafftop

I hope Schaub can play as good as Flacco did today.
Thank you Ravens for giving us a chance to host anothe playoff game.

Flacco was definitely a bigger factor in both of their wins than Schaub has been over the last 5 weeks.

I honestly don't give a crap about Schaub. If we win, we win. I just don't see us winning without him having a big day.