Mike Shanahan: A coach who overrules the doctors should be fired

[CloakNNNdagger]

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 8, 2013, 7:15 PM EST
Shanahan Reuters

Redskins coach Mike Shanahan is adamant that he did not overrule team doctors in the decision to play quarterback Robert Griffin III after Griffin suffered a knee injury — so adamant that he says if he did that, he would deserve to be fired.

In a conversation with NFL Network’s Andrea Kremer, Shanahan said that it’s absurd that he would put the franchise player at risk if the doctors told him not to, and that he believes it’s a firing offense for a coach to disregard a doctor’s medical instructions.

“You’d have to be a complete idiot to think I would overrule our doctors. That’s ludicrous. If someone were to do that, they should be fired,” Shanahan said.

Controversy has swirled over the last 72 hours regarding the Redskins’ handling of Griffin’s knee. First, Dr. James Andrews was quoted as saying Shanahan put Griffin back in the Week 15 game against the Ravens without allowing Andrews to inspect Griffin. Then, Griffin stayed in the game on Sunday against the Seahawks despite clearly being hobbled by his injured knee. Then Griffin ultimately exited the game after injuring the knee again. And then this week Dr. Andrews said his previous comments about Shanahan were misconstrued.

Hmmm.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Here are the "supposed" details that have led to this "controversy." Leaves me with a double Hmmm.

Dr. Andrews backs Mike Shanahan, says coach didn't lie about RG3

Hours before the Redskins faced the Seahawks in Sunday's wild-card matchup, USA Today quoted Washington team doctor James Andrews as saying that he never looked at quarterback Robert Griffin III when he briefly came to the sideline after initially spraining his right knee in the Week 14 game against the Ravens.

"[Griffin] didn't even let us look at him," Andrews told USA Today. "He came off the field, walked through the sidelines, circled back through the players and took off back to the field. It wasn't our opinion. We didn't even get to touch him or talk to him. Scared the hell out of me."

Griffin returned to the game for several plays before eventually giving way to backup Kirk Cousins.

Andrews' remarks contradicted what coach Mike Shanahan said after the Ravens game.

"We had Dr. Andrews on the sideline with us," the coach said at the time. "He's the one that gives me the information. It's way over my head. I'm just telling you what he said. We felt very good with the news."

Naturally, the discrepancy raised questions about whether Shanahan was being truthful, which was only exacerbated after RG3 again injured his right knee against the Seahawks.

In comments Monday to the Washington Post, Andrews says that "Coach Shanahan didn't lie about it, and I didn't lie about it."

So what happened in that Ravens game?

“I didn't get to examine [Griffin's knee] because he came out for one play, didn't let us look at him and on the next play, he ran through all the players and back out onto the field," Andrews said. "Coach Shanahan looks at me like, ‘Is he OK?' and I give him the ‘Hi' sign as in, ‘He's running around, so I guess he's OK.' But I didn't get to check him out until after the game.

"It was just a communication problem," Andrews continued. "Heat of battle. I didn't get to tell him I didn't get to examine the knee. Mike Shanahan would never have put him out there at risk just to win a game.”

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[Playoffs]

I guess we'll see when they go in for the LCL and have a peek at the ACL?

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

I guess we'll see when they go in for the LCL and have a peek at the ACL?

If he has had sufficient knee joint abnormal stress\movement to have incurred an LCL tear with his ACL, partial or not, it is unlikely that as an elite athlete he will be guided to non-surgical treatment, if he expects to return to elite status.......especially if he intends to continue to be a running back-type QB.

[Marcus]

So Doc, if Andrews has to reconstruct both the LCL and ACL at this late stage, he's most likely done for the next season, correct?

[TexanSam]

ESPN is saying he's getting his ACL and LCL repaired and should be ready for the 2013 season. CND, is the timeframe correct for that type of surgery or are the Redskins being generous?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012...y-ready-opener

Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III will undergo total reconstructive surgery of his right knee early Wednesday morning to repair torn anterior cruciate and lateral collateral ligaments, but he is expected to be ready for the opener of the 2013 NFL regular season, according to team sources familiar with the determination made by orthopedic specialist Dr. James Andrews.

The torn ACL was diagnosed late Tuesday as a complete tear of the patella graft that was used to repair Griffin's torn ACL suffered at Baylor in 2009. A team source said Andrews likely will use a patella graft from Griffin's left knee to repair the most recent tear.

Griffin's recovery is projected at six to eight months, barring any setbacks, sources said. The rehabilitation plan will focus primarily on strengthening Griffin's quadriceps to help protect and help stabilize the knee, according to sources. The reconstruction of the LCL is considered a complication, but sources said Andrews informed the Redskins it should rehab well during the same six-to-eight month time frame as the ACL injury.

Under this projected time frame of surgery, recovery and rehab, Griffin should be able to participate at some level during training camp in August and be ready to open the season in September, according to the sources.

[CloakNNNdagger]

For RGIII, THEORETICALLY, if everything goes well and without complications, he could be back by 8 months (the beginning of the 2013 season) under perfectly optimal circumstances. But there are some potentially complicating factors. This is not his first ACL repair. It is his 3rd, and the 2nd on this knee. Besides that, his patella graft used for previous repair are not available and he will likely require a quadriceps or hamstring tendon graft ( structures of the knee). Then, another point. He played on a partially torn LCL for the past 3 games. When you do so, the knee is already "destabilized" to some extent, with a setup for further damage......including ACL tear. But with a previous right ACL repair (which he underwent in 2009), it was a perfect setup for a re-tear of that ACL. When you have a 2nd ACL repair, the reality rather the exception (please don't throw out isolated examples) is......that knee will never be the same, despite what some surgeons today may claim. RGIII can make it back for the 2013 season opener, but that early, we don't know what RGIII we will see. RGIII the effective runner by that time is not likely in my opinion......and if we do see him trying to continue his pre-injury style......expect him to become more familiar with the knife.

I, personally, am skeptical that he will be ready for the opener simply based on the fact that it is a secondary ACL repair..........and the way I saw the abnormal direction of bend and the extent that knee buckled, I suspect that not only was the ACL and LCL torn, but also the MCL.

[Playoffs]

Originally Posted by TexanSam

ESPN is saying he's getting his ACL and LCL repaired and should be ready for the 2013 season. CND, is the timeframe correct for that type of surgery or are the Redskins being generous?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012...y-ready-opener

The initial assessment was an LCL, and now the prior ACL graft is torn as well. So putting him back on the field was not a good idea?

It seems odd to go into an athlete's other knee to get the new graft, given both sides are expected to see further stressors. Is there another option?

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

The initial assessment was an LCL, and now the prior ACL graft is torn as well. So putting him back on the field was not a good idea?

It seems odd to go into an athlete's other knee to get the new graft, given both sides are expected to see further stressors. Is there another option?

LCL tear can actually be considered a complication of ACL repair. It was not a good idea to put him back in. If the LCL were indeed mild Grade I to begin with, I would have expected to see him a normal knee brace, not a massive brace that you would have expected to see on RoboCop. I believe they knew that the tear was already Grade II. It should well illustrate that knee braces have unpredictable "protection" in cases of existing significant injury.

It is more typical that grafts are harvested on the same side of injury, so that rehab can be limited to one limb. They will probably stay with a graft on the same leg (quadriceps or hamstring tendon). Most surgeons will avoid synthetic grafts.

[TexansBull]

1. Its pretty crappy (which doesn't begin to describe the situation) if Shanahan did overrule doctors. These players are human beings, not animals.

2. Seems pretty smart in hindsight to draft to rookie QBs. I remember Shanny taking heat for that.

Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express

[Playoffs]

So ACL was partial now...

"Robert's ACL is intact, but not enough for his profession,'' Griffin II said in a text message to USA TODAY Sports. "You and I could be fine. But he is an athlete. So they will replace.''

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...1/?sf8466200=1

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Marcus

So Doc, if Andrews has to reconstruct both the LCL and ACL at this late stage, he's most likely done for the next season, correct?

Refer to my initial post above.

I might add that I am not aware of any arthroscopic repair technique for the LCL. This means that despite the ACL being able to technically be able to be repaired arthroscopically, the LCL will dictate that the procedure be performed through a formal open technique. Arthroscopic techniques are the major factor behind the improved/shortened rehab involving knee surgeries. In addition, open approaches to the knee carry a higher complication rate. This "open" factor in itself may see his full rehab closer to a year or more.

[CloakNNNdagger]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

So ACL was partial now...http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...1/?sf8466200=1

"Partial" vs "complete" ACL tear is more important as an imaging finding. Both need to be repaired in an elite athlete.....and both share the same rehab and essentially the same prognosis.....especially as it is in either case a secondary repair.

[Playoffs]

Not to be all selfish & self-centered about RGIII's misfortune but,
this injury kills any chance of the Texans acquiring Kirk Cousins for the 2013 season.

[ChampionTexan]

Originally Posted by Playoffs

Not to be all selfish & self-centered about RGIII's misfortune but,
this injury kills any chance of the Texans acquiring Kirk Cousins for the 2013 season.

It has killed that which was already dead.

[CloakNNNdagger]

This is getting more ridiculous as it goes along. Dr. Andrews is already saying RB is "ahead of schedule." Give it a rest for a while.

Subtle yet palpable tension exists between the desire to put quarterback Robert Griffin III back on the field for Week One of the 2013 season and Griffin’s objective of ensuring his long-term health.

Recently, Griffin added an unmistakable asterisk to the “All In For Week One” tagline of a new ad campaign, pointing out that he won’t compromise his career in order to return for the first game of the coming football season. Dr. James Andrews, who openly fretted about the team’s decision to let Griffin play with a bad knee (not long before the knee imploded), has since proclaimed the Griffin is “way ahead of schedule.”

A person close to Griffin has suggested, under the cover of anonymity, that the time has come to take a more low-key approach.

“I don’t understand why we’re talking about how close he is to playing or not right now,” the source told Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports. “Let him just get better; there’s a long way to go.”

Any talk about Griffin’s rehab and recovery creates hope that he’ll be ready to go when the season begins. And that’s something about which the networks are reportedly curious as the jockeying for the best slate of games commences.

“Again, it’s been like six weeks; what are we doing this for?” the source told Cole regarding the talk of Griffin’s recovery. “He’s not running yet. . . . It’s ridiculous to talk about.”

The source is right. And it’s odd, to say the least, that Dr. Andrews is expressing cockeyed optimism only weeks after he came off as prescient for attempting to press the “caution” button regarding Griffin’s injured knee.

Griffin will be ready when he’s ready. Putting him on the field at anything less than 100 percent would be even more foolish than leaving him on the field against the Seahawks when he was bad limping and increasingly ineffective.

link


Just like Cushing reportedly is "ahead of schedule." Cushing may be doing well, and I hope he is. But he isn't ahead of schedule. Light running is usually allowed after an ACL repair at month 3 or month 4. Cushing is starting his running at month 5. Just saying, he may indeed be doing very well.....but he is not ahead of schedule.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Shanny is hoping he'll be back but if I'm Snyder I'm taking charge .

[Playoffs]

Dr. Andrews: RG3's recovery has been 'superhuman'

...
Dr. James Andrews recently described Robert Griffin, III as "superhuman" in his ability and motivation to recover from surgery to repair the anterior cruciate and lateral collateral ligaments in his right knee.

Andrews went on to compare Griffin to Adrian Peterson and Bo Jackson as exceptional natural athletes and genetic freaks to whom conventional recovery timetables don't apply...

[Cerberus]

“You’d have to be a complete idiot to think I would overrule our doctors. That’s ludicrous. If someone were to do that, they should be fired,” Shanahan said.

Controversy has swirled over the last 72 hours regarding the Redskins’ handling of Griffin’s knee. First, Dr. James Andrews was quoted as saying Shanahan put Griffin back in the Week 15 game against the Ravens without allowing Andrews to inspect Griffin. Then, Griffin stayed in the game on Sunday against the Seahawks despite clearly being hobbled by his injured knee. Then Griffin ultimately exited the game after injuring the knee again. And then this week Dr. Andrews said his previous comments about Shanahan were misconstrued.

What makes this even funnier to me, is remembering how Shanarat handled Brian Griese in Denver, making him go back in with an injured shoulder. It seems to me and others, that Shanny puts his career above the careers and health of his players.

Griese's injury is officially listed as a separated AC joint. The Broncos said they aren't likely to know about their quarterback's availability for Sunday's game against San Diego until later in the week.

Griese was injured in the first quarter of Denver's 27-24 win against Oakland on Monday night, but he returned to the lineup and helped engineer the victory.

"We won't know for a couple of days the exact extent of the injury," head coach Mike Shanahan said. "We'll wait to see how sore he is."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo..._ap/index.html

It is little wonder why the Redskins drafted RGIII and Kirk Cousins with Shanarat as their HC.