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Old 01-08-2013   #101
ObsiWan
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

I've always wondered, why refs aren't made available post-game to explain some of the more confusing or questionable calls.

And why is it that players and coaches are susceptable to heavy fines (and suspension?) when they criticize the officiating in the press??

Finally, I understand each reffing crew is graded after every game; why aren't the fans privvy to the outcome of those assessments? Why don't we get to know which groups call the game correctly and which ones are trending toward mediocrity ...or worse...??
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Old 01-08-2013   #102
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I've always wondered, why refs aren't made available post-game to explain some of the more confusing or questionable calls.

And why is it that players and coaches are susceptable to heavy fines (and suspension?) when they criticize the officiating in the press??

Finally, I understand each reffing crew is graded after every game; why aren't the fans privvy to the outcome of those assessments? Why don't we get to know which groups call the game correctly and which ones are trending toward mediocrity ...or worse...??
Because then people would constantly make threads complaining about the refs, duh...
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Old 01-08-2013   #103
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Because then people would constantly make threads complaining about the refs, duh...
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Old 01-08-2013   #104
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
I've always wondered, why refs aren't made available post-game to explain some of the more confusing or questionable calls.

And why is it that players and coaches are susceptable to heavy fines (and suspension?) when they criticize the officiating in the press??

Finally, I understand each reffing crew is graded after every game; why aren't the fans privvy to the outcome of those assessments? Why don't we get to know which groups call the game correctly and which ones are trending toward mediocrity ...or worse...??
Making the refs available post game would be a total cluster. No way I would put that in place if I were calling it. Also I can't go on tv bad mouth any of my coworkers so I can see why the nfl fines people. Thy have internal channels to handle issues with officiating problems
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Old 01-08-2013   #105
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

if you cant overcome bad officiating you dont deserve to win the game.

That's how i feel about refereeing in all sports across the board.
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Old 01-08-2013   #106
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Making the refs available post game would be a total cluster. No way I would put that in place if I were calling it.
You do not say why. And I'm not asking for them to be targets of derision, just that they be made available to explain confusing/contraversial calls and explain rule interpretations. The press doesn't (in most cases) deride players and coaches during post-game pressers. They do, however, ask "how come?" questions. I would expect this interview process to be conducted in the same professional manner with the same respect they give players and coaches.

What's wrong with that?
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Old 01-08-2013   #107
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
if you cant overcome bad officiating you dont deserve to win the game.

That's how i feel about refereeing in all sports across the board.
Remember those B/S calls against J.J. Watt last year in Indy that gave the Colts first down after first down - in the red zone after we'd stopped them - in the last minutes of that game? How do you overcome those when there's no time on the clock?
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Old 01-08-2013   #108
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

WoW! That's all I can say after reading this thread. WOW! I thought people from Texas would be more knowledgeable about the game they are purported to love so much. There hasn't been a single referee that hasn't said that the call the ref made in the Oakland/Pats playoff game wasn't the correct one. Just because the announcers and most of the fans watching the game, didn't know this obscure rule, doesn't change that FACT.

That's being said, the call the Colts got in your game was a lot less cut and dried, but that's just my opinion.

As to the irrational feeling that Houston gets screwed, its only natural, and every fan base feels that way. I know for a certain fact that there is a healthy number of Pats fans who feel that if the Pats manage to get by Houston on Sunday, they'll not only have to beat the Broncos, but also the refs.

The feeling that the Pats ALWAYS get the calls is absurd. Over the years the Pats have be victimized by bad calls as often as they've been helped. The best example was the 2006 AFCCG vs the Colts. In that game the Pats were victimized by a phantom PI call in the endzone, and just 2 series later what might be the most blatent PI I've seen in over 40 years of watching the NFL was totally ignored. I could name a dozen other games as well.

Lets take the last Houston Pats game. The Pats seemingly got 2 calls in their favor. One was the first drive where a holding call that kept the drive going. Even a Texan fan who saw the replay would have to admit that Welker WAS being held. Hell, he was being tackled.

The second was the long PI, when the Welker was hit on a ball that seemed well overthrown. Believe me I was as outraged by the call as Texans fans were, and I said so to my fellow Pats fans on our message board. HOWEVER, it was pointed out that by cutting off Welker's attempt to catch the ball, the Texan DB violated the rules and was correctly flagged.

Now that I understand that the correct call was made, my outrage is more against the rule as opposed to the ref who called it. BTW - if you are tired of watching QB's make bad passes and get rewarded with a long gain blame Bill Polian. HE's the one who got the rules changed after he realized he'd never beat the Pats or Steelers under the old rules

BTW- if you watched the Raven Colts game, throwing up prayers and hoping the refs bail you out was clearly a part of the Raven's offensive plan. Flacco did it over and over again, and thanks to the Polian rules it worked

That's why the Texans would be crazy not to employ the same strategy against the Pats. On third and 10 go deep. Whats the down side. One AJ catches it. Two - the defensive player is flagged - Three the pass is incomplete Four - the pass is picked, Either of the first 2 options result in a 40 yd gain, Either of the later 2 options result in the Pats getting the ball 40 yds down field. Again, what's the downside? And that's why the PI can be the most unfair penalty in existence. No other penalty exacts such a cost on what is often a judgement call
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Old 01-08-2013   #109
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by patfanken View Post
WoW! That's all I can say after reading this thread. WOW! I thought people from Texas would be more knowledgeable about the game they are purported to love so much. There hasn't been a single referee that hasn't said that the call the ref made in the Oakland/Pats playoff game wasn't the correct one. Just because the announcers and most of the fans watching the game, didn't know this obscure rule, doesn't change that FACT.

.............
Is not the tuck rule a judgement call? Many people after becoming aware of the rule still think it was a bad call.....

Texans fans are like any other fanbase. We've got many knowlegeable fans and many not-so-knowledgeable fans... I'm thinkin' if I went to Pats messageboard I wouldn't have to look far to find a few not-so-knowledgeable fans....

Re: the PI on Manning at 12:17 of the 2nd quarter of the Texans/Pats game perhaps you didn't hear Gruden's comments:

"I don't like that call at all. That ball was uncatchable". "I think that was a common sense no-call". (And then the camera shows Wade Phillips who almost never loses his cool going ballistic.) Gruden: "Yeah, I agree with him, I don't like that call one bit. 3rd down and 10 you throw the prayer up there into double coverage and you get the call".

Just a different perspective from what many consider a knowledgeable announcer....
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Old 01-08-2013   #110
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by Arky View Post
Is not the tuck rule a judgement call? Many people after becoming aware of the rule still think it was a bad call.....

Texans fans are like any other fanbase. We've got many knowlegeable fans and many not-so-knowledgeable fans... I'm thinkin' if I went to Pats messageboard I wouldn't have to look far to find a few not-so-knowledgeable fans....

Re: the PI on Manning at 12:17 of the 2nd quarter of the Texans/Pats game perhaps you didn't hear Gruden's comments:

"I don't like that call at all. That ball was uncatchable". "I think that was a common sense no-call". (And then the camera shows Wade Phillips who almost never loses his cool going ballistic.) Gruden: "Yeah, I agree with him, I don't like that call one bit. 3rd down and 10 you throw the prayer up there into double coverage and you get the call".

Just a different perspective from what many consider a knowledgeable announcer....
Clearly you aren't aware that the tuck rule was put in place to take "judgement" away from the ref. After the 2001 season the league took a hard look at the tuck rule and chose to keep it as is, despite public sentiment to change it, or drop it entirely. The reason given was it was that they wanted to to keep what was an incompletion and what was a fumble less of a judgement call and the tuck rule made that possible.

Now over 11 years later they will look at it again over this off season. It will be interesting to see what they say.

BTW- what John Gruden or anyone else has to say about some call, is just their opinion. Often that opinion is just as valid as your's or mine. At the time I agreed with Gruden. I have since found out I was wrong.....and so was Gruden.
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Old 01-08-2013   #111
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by patfanken View Post
Clearly you aren't aware that the tuck rule was put in place to take "judgement" away from the ref. After the 2001 season the league took a hard look at the tuck rule and chose to keep it as is, despite public sentiment to change it, or drop it entirely. The reason given was it was that they wanted to to keep what was an incompletion and what was a fumble less of a judgement call and the tuck rule made that possible.

Now over 11 years later they will look at it again over this off season. It will be interesting to see what they say.

BTW- what John Gruden or anyone else has to say about some call, is just their opinion. Often that opinion is just as valid as your's or mine. At the time I agreed with Gruden. I have since found out I was wrong.....and so was Gruden.
I would say his opinion is more valid than yours or mine. Thats like saying my opinion is as valid as a doctors when evaluating a disorder of some sort.
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Old 01-08-2013   #112
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by patfanken View Post
Clearly you aren't aware that the tuck rule was put in place to take "judgement" away from the ref. After the 2001 season the league took a hard look at the tuck rule and chose to keep it as is, despite public sentiment to change it, or drop it entirely. The reason given was it was that they wanted to to keep what was an incompletion and what was a fumble less of a judgement call and the tuck rule made that possible.
Call it "judgement call", call it "ref's interpretation", call it "homer call"....Hairsplitting at its finest.

Like I said, there are many people that are well aware of the fine print of the tuck rule and still think it was a bad call.

Quote:
BTW- what John Gruden or anyone else has to say about some call, is just their opinion. Often that opinion is just as valid as your's or mine. At the time I agreed with Gruden. I have since found out I was wrong.....and so was Gruden.
Technically, the ref enforced the rule as he saw it. In the NBA they call this "ticky-tack".

Gruden said this, "I think that was a common sense no-call". And I happen to agree with that "judgement" or "opinion". I mostly respect Gruden's viewpoints.... Yours? I have not made a judgement, yet...
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Old 01-09-2013   #113
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield View Post
if you cant overcome bad officiating you dont deserve to win the game.

That's how i feel about refereeing in all sports across the board.
That is incredibly dumb.

Yes people, sometimes bad/no-calls happen and sometimes they're destructive enough to change the complexion of the game no matter when they happened and yes, it's okay to blame them for losses if they're egregious enough.

Get out of your little utopian fantasy where refereeing never ever truly affects a game.

As for this game, New England almost always gets typical Patriot bull**** thrown their way, whether by referee failure or some other stroke of luck. I expect it. It will happen. We'll see how detrimental those instances will be.
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Old 01-09-2013   #114
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by patfanken View Post
WoW! That's all I can say after reading this thread. WOW! I thought people from Texas would be more knowledgeable about the game they are purported to love so much. There hasn't been a single referee that hasn't said that the call the ref made in the Oakland/Pats playoff game wasn't the correct one. Just because the announcers and most of the fans watching the game, didn't know this obscure rule, doesn't change that FACT.
Hey now, the guy who brought up the tuck rule is a Raiders fan, so don't go getting us all mixed up with that sad lot of fans...
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Old 01-09-2013   #115
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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That is incredibly dumb.

Yes people, sometimes bad/no-calls happen and sometimes they're destructive enough to change the complexion of the game no matter when they happened and yes, it's okay to blame them for losses if they're egregious enough.

Get out of your little utopian fantasy where refereeing never ever truly affects a game.

As for this game, New England almost always gets typical Patriot bull**** thrown their way, whether by referee failure or some other stroke of luck. I expect it. It will happen. We'll see how detrimental those instances will be.

Yeah, he said the same thing about the Seattle/GB game. Erm, wait... maybe not...
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Old 01-09-2013   #116
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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That is incredibly dumb.

Yes people, sometimes bad/no-calls happen and sometimes they're destructive enough to change the complexion of the game no matter when they happened and yes, it's okay to blame them for losses if they're egregious enough.

Get out of your little utopian fantasy where refereeing never ever truly affects a game.

As for this game, New England almost always gets typical Patriot bull**** thrown their way, whether by referee failure or some other stroke of luck. I expect it. It will happen. We'll see how detrimental those instances will be.


Clearly the Patriots are the only team that ever get calls in their favor. Ever.
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Old 01-09-2013   #117
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Making the refs available post game would be a total cluster. No way I would put that in place if I were calling it. Also I can't go on tv bad mouth any of my coworkers so I can see why the nfl fines people. Thy have internal channels to handle issues with officiating problems
but thats the only way any sense of impropriety gets noticed/caught.
more transparency is needed, a fair audit by a disinterested party, or by the fans.

less transparency = more corruption

and everytime i see a pass interference call while the ball gets thrown 10 yards out of reach i get to think, welp here we go with the sublime game-fixing...
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Old 01-09-2013   #118
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

Conspiracist is a hard word to say when your drunk.
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Old 01-09-2013   #119
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Originally Posted by TheMatrix31 View Post
That is incredibly dumb.

Yes people, sometimes bad/no-calls happen and sometimes they're destructive enough to change the complexion of the game no matter when they happened and yes, it's okay to blame them for losses if they're egregious enough.

Get out of your little utopian fantasy where refereeing never ever truly affects a game.

As for this game, New England almost always gets typical Patriot bull**** thrown their way, whether by referee failure or some other stroke of luck. I expect it. It will happen. We'll see how detrimental those instances will be.

Cool. Go watch the Pats Ravens game earlier in the season. Ravens won by 1 on a field goal that never went through. Every drive by Flacco in the second half was aided by a questionable PI call. That one extra game would mean lots in this afc seeding. But, we'll persevere.

I think the Texans are a good team and I'd have been pulling for them if my team wasn't in it.

There are actually two players You have that I'd love to have on the Pats.
Watt and Foster. No others...The Pats have been drafting form the bottom of the barrel for 10 years straight.
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Old 01-09-2013   #120
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Default Re: Call me a conspiracist, but refs will NOT be in favor of us next week. NFL wants

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Call me a conspiracist.....
"Back, and to the left... back, and to the left... back, and to the left."

"a coup d'etat..."
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